MMPR Grow op: Small Scale

woodsmaneh! said:
Was surfing and found this site for LP's in Canada,

http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=...goback=.gsm_7447792_1_*2_*2_*2_lna_PENDING_*2

The Canadian Medical Marijuana Licenced Producers (CMMLP) was founded to protect and promote the Canadian medical marijuana regulatory framework, serve as a responsible resource for policy makers, and protect the rights of medical marijuana patients. We are a medical marijuana trade association representing businesses in Canada. CMMLP envisions a world in which local, Provincial, and Federal laws protect medical marijuana businesses, and patients are able to receive safe access to quality medicine.
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Here's a similar organization
http://www.canadiancannabisindustry.ca/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Canadian-Cannabis-Industry-Association-5090120
 
:-P:weed: Constitutional Challenge launched on behalf of all Canadian patients could prevent the ban on home grows from happening, Class Action documents are on the site


http://johnconroy.com/MMARlitigation.htm

All medically approved patient ordinarily resident in Canada are affected and included and the government will be bound by any decision that the law is unconstitutional without the need to bring their own separate actions. If the court finds that the government is violating the Constitution it may suspend the declaration for a period of time to enable the Government to make the law constitutional with patients continuing to be exempt until that is done. If the law is held to be unconstitutional in relation to our chosen Plaintiffs then it is unconstitutional for all similarly situated.
 
woodsmaneh! said:
:-P:weed: Constitutional Challenge launched on behalf of all Canadian patients could prevent the ban on home grows from happening, Class Action documents are on the site


http://johnconroy.com/MMARlitigation.htm

All medically approved patient ordinarily resident in Canada are affected and included and the government will be bound by any decision that the law is unconstitutional without the need to bring their own separate actions. If the court finds that the government is violating the Constitution it may suspend the declaration for a period of time to enable the Government to make the law constitutional with patients continuing to be exempt until that is done. If the law is held to be unconstitutional in relation to our chosen Plaintiffs then it is unconstitutional for all similarly situated.
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So when will the court make its ruling? Would kind of suck if it's after apr.1st after patients and DG's shut down already. For many it would take a few months to get back up and running again.
 
So one of the big issues facing LP is testing, an in-house lab is costly to fit up and do the complete job, a GC to test you own Canabinoids used on eBay start at $1,5000. or a new one is $13,000 or you can buy test kits at http://www.thctestkits.com/ for a lot less. Legal in Canada.
 
woodsmaneh! said:
So one of the big issues facing LP is testing, an in-house lab is costly to fit up and do the complete job, a GC to test you own Canabinoids used on eBay start at $1,5000. or a new one is $13,000 or you can buyst kits at http://www.thctestkits.com/ for a lot less. Legal in Canada.
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The lab work can be outsourced by any lab that holds the proper license. This was covered awhile back in this thread.
 
Also an in house lab would have to test for heavy metals and aflatoxin, which a GC-FiD is not capable of doing. I would also be skeptical that HC would approve of those test kits.
 
redi jedi said:
The lab work can be outsourced by any lab that holds the proper license. This was covered awhile back in this thread.
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Yes it was but I did not see test kits covered, and I think with these kits I would ask for a ruling from HC. This is not a home test kit, it is used by LEO in the USA and many other groups. This would be good for quite a few reasons but I'll let those who are interested have a look, it could give you a competitive edge if used right and I don't just mean lab results.

redi I read all the comments but what was missing was real numbers on what it would cost in real world dollars to set up a lab. Do you know? Having products that are within price range for small LP is important to know and if we all do some work we can make informed decisions. I did my homework and called and checked out whats available to get the job done in house just for THC, THCA, CBD ect, that alone will allow you to do research and dial in your plants and focus on developing your product for your market.

I thought $200,000 was a good number for a full test lab but then I started looking around at what was involved scared me, I decided I'm in the growing business not the test business. The cost of testing is a cost of business and when we are in the black we will revisit the subject.

So I don't have $200,000 to toss at it, I do have $15,000 to buy a new GC with software and training. Now I can do a ton of testing in-house and so many other competitive advantages.....

By the way have you called and asked for samples of what you get from the labs for your dollar, you better have someone who knows how to read the information and put it into your QA report or good luck with that.

Thanks to my buddy MJ for the suggestion, excellent idea.
 
ispice said:
Also an in house lab would have to test for heavy metals and aflatoxin, which a GC-FiD is not capable of doing. I would also be skeptical that HC would approve of those test kits.
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There is nothing that says you can't do some test in-house and send others out. The test kits are no different than standard ELISA kits.

Guys look beyond the testing as a way to meet the regulations only, in house it is a competitive edge being able to test at will for the right things your looking for in plants, let the labs do all the other test that they do 100 times a day for other industries, if you can afford one of the ways I spoke of you have an edge. After all if you can't afford a $230.00 test kit you have bigger issues, and if you don't know how to use in-house testing to your advantage you have even bigger troubles.

Peace
 
ispice said:
You gotter straight, my plan is to outsource the metals and aflatoxin, and use a GC/FID inhouse.
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We originally planned to setup an in-house lab, but when I saw the prices being offered to outsource it just didn't make sense (at least at our scale). What you suggest makes more sense, but if you work out the costs it is still debatable as you can get the Cannabinoid analysis done for just over $100. So even if you set up a lab for 50k (good luck), you could outsource 500 samples. If you factor in labour, materials, and depreciation of the equipment it would be even greater. Finally, any floor space you use for your lab is floor space that could be in production. Obviously this dosnt matter for some people, but for us the floor space it better used for production.

We intend to setup a tissue culture lab, but may hold off until we are up and running. This will streamline the application and hopefully (fingers crossed) get us through the system quicker (less build out etc.).

Any way, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from starting a lab, but look carefully and do your homework. It really is hard to do the analysis for less than some of the larger companies are offering, especially if you add in all of the hidden costs.

PS

I also doubt the test "kits" will be allowed for QA, but they may be useful as a preliminary screen for internal R&D for anyone who dosnt have an in house lab.
 
I plan to use the GC/FID a lot, which can be set up for less than $15K new, total.

What are the advantages of having a tc lab over traditional cloning methods?
 
ispice said:
I plan to use the GC/FID a lot, which can be set up for less than $15K new, total.

What are the advantages of having a tc lab over traditional cloning methods?
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Yeah the GC can be set up for that, but you need the related lab equipment to extract and prepare the samples for analysis (fume hood, analytical balance, flammable storage area, pipettes, glassware, safety shower, etc....). I'm sure you have priced all of this out and made an educated decision, but it will cost more than the GC itself.

The main advantage of a TC lab will be for security. For example, what happens if you have a spider mite outbreak in your mothers? They are very difficult to get rid of, especially since there are no pesticides registered as it stands (correct me if I am wrong). In the case of tissue culture, all of your mothers would be secure in a sterile environment. Further, tissue culture allows you to maintain strains in a small area, so if you want to maintain a library of 20 strains you could do it using a chamber the size of a bar fridge. Using this approach you can also produce disease free plants for production and germplasm exchange. For example, if I wanted to send you a strain, sending it using tissue culture would ensure that you are not introducing any pests/diseases into your facility.

That pretty much sums it up, but in the long run it may also be very useful for breeding purposes. I have a bunch of ideas but only time will tell if they pan out.
 
I agree that TC will be good for preservation, sharing, and long term storage, I don't think it will play to much of role with production in the short term for me.

The related materials for a simple cannabinoid analytically lab would be far less than the cost of the GC/FID itself. I wont be using a fume hood, I wont be using hydrogen as a carrier gas, and If I did decide to use a hood they are $2-$3K used, for overkill size and capability. The amount of flammable goods used and there exposure rates are minor, an analytical balance is $200-$400 low end, flammable storage $100-$300, glass, tools, supplies and consumables are maybe $100-$200/month, standards are $90 - $150 for the common cannabinoids.

Like you say it depends on each LP's situation and requirements if they want or would benefit from having in house capabilities.
 
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