Is hydroponics better for the environment? I think it is.

AlphaPhase

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
You make some good points Alpha. My only concern is how would this be practiced? Someone like you who seems to care about the environment is not the issue. It's the giant corporations that put profit above all else that makes me wonder.

Is it fair to say that a sloppy organic farm would do less damage than a sloppy hydroponics/synthetic farm?
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That's a very good point. If the hydro system is a closed loop system, I think that would eliminate any possibilities of wastes getting into the planet. Also, I'm sure there is a way to use 100% of the hydroponic water, possibly refine the waste water somehow? The hydro systems could even use organic nutrients so that water waste would be non-existent, leaving no damage or "salt" buildups in the land the waste goes to. These are just some thoughts I have. Aquaponics would be better yet. A system that relies on fish to feed the plants. The farmer only feeds the fish, the fish feed the plants and also keep the system clean. A mini ecosystem. With this system, there could be so many possibilities. It would have to be organic, so even the organic fans would be happy. It would grow fish AND plants for food. And there would be nothing in the system that would be bad for the environment in any way.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
That's a very good point. If the hydro system is a closed loop system, I think that would eliminate any possibilities of wastes getting into the planet. Also, I'm sure there is a way to use 100% of the hydroponic water, possibly refine the waste water somehow? The hydro systems could even use organic nutrients so that water waste would be non-existent, leaving no damage or "salt" buildups in the land the waste goes to. These are just some thoughts I have. Aquaponics would be better yet. A system that relies on fish to feed the plants. The farmer only feeds the fish, the fish feed the plants and also keep the system clean. A mini ecosystem. With this system, there could be so many possibilities. It would have to be organic, so even the organic fans would be happy. It would grow fish AND plants for food. And there would be nothing in the system that would be bad for the environment in any way.
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Aquaponics is fascinating. Very well could be the future of vegetable farming. Talk about a symbiotic system!
 
ounevinsmoke

ounevinsmoke

Well-Known Member
The science world calls those who oppose their data and research heretics, and promoters of pseudoscience all the while pushing fear mongering for their own agenda.
AlphaPhase said:
That's a very good point. If the hydro system is a closed loop system, I think that would eliminate any possibilities of wastes getting into the planet. Also, I'm sure there is a way to use 100% of the hydroponic water, possibly refine the waste water somehow? The hydro systems could even use organic nutrients so that water waste would be non-existent, leaving no damage or "salt" buildups in the land the waste goes to. These are just some thoughts I have. Aquaponics would be better yet. A system that relies on fish to feed the plants. The farmer only feeds the fish, the fish feed the plants and also keep the system clean. A mini ecosystem. With this system, there could be so many possibilities. It would have to be organic, so even the organic fans would be happy. It would grow fish AND plants for food. And there would be nothing in the system that would be bad for the environment in any way.
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you have not tried organic nutrients in hydro I take it, lol. Please give this a try
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
Moving away from eating meat would go a long way in this regard. I don't think it's too far off where we'll be seeing very high prices for meat. Its going to be a delicacy. It just takes too much grain/corn to fatten up a cow for slaughter. I forget the stat, but it's a staggering amount of grain that needs to be consumed by a cow for every lb of meat that is yielded.
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That's what I was implying in my reply to Churchaze's post. The ample US diet takes 1 acre per person and worldwide Ag acreage is 13.5 B acres. We aren't running out of room for agriculture any time soon, especially when economics drive changes in diet.
 
ounevinsmoke

ounevinsmoke

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
That's a very good point. If the hydro system is a closed loop system, I think that would eliminate any possibilities of wastes getting into the planet. Also, I'm sure there is a way to use 100% of the hydroponic water, possibly refine the waste water somehow? The hydro systems could even use organic nutrients so that water waste would be non-existent, leaving no damage or "salt" buildups in the land the waste goes to. These are just some thoughts I have. Aquaponics would be better yet. A system that relies on fish to feed the plants. The farmer only feeds the fish, the fish feed the plants and also keep the system clean. A mini ecosystem. With this system, there could be so many possibilities. It would have to be organic, so even the organic fans would be happy. It would grow fish AND plants for food. And there would be nothing in the system that would be bad for the environment in any way.
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Their are tons of people who oppose farm fish already haha
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ounevinsmoke said:
The science world calls those who oppose their data and research heretics, and promoters of pseudoscience all the while pushing fear mongering for their own agenda.


you have not tried organic nutrients in hydro I take it, lol. Please give this a try
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My apologies go to Heisenberg.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
Totally. There are some areas (I can't remember where) that are putting gardens on top of school roofs.
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That's a big thing in Japan too. Many of the growshops that didn't close here recently are now urban gardening center. Not sure if the sell any of it, but they actually have some interesting products, for indoors as well.

Anyway, there's really no argument... there's tons of research that show hydro has a much lower impact on the environment and result in healthier plants and hence better product. Because of the control throughout the entire cycle. The reality shows how misplaced that throwing mud analogy is, it in fact describes organic growing quite well. It's a well known fact hydro = more control = more efficient.

I don't even see the point of arguing it anymore. The only thing that can lead to the conclusion that organic is overall better is bias. Organic growing is largely based on the appeal to nature fallacy in the first place, which turns out to be ironic.

If you go to the same lengths stow goes with organic (collect and filter rainwater and mix your own nutes for example) there doesn't have to be any waste either. You know, aero ponics in space... Buy a photometer and recycle and readjust the nutrient solution...

Anyone mentioned water yet...

Problem: http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2015/2015/agriculture.html

Solution: http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2015/2015/hydro_agriculture.html


Soil is for indoor "gardening", hydro is for producing the best quality and quantity.
 
Tone5500

Tone5500

Well-Known Member
And for the people that hold organic to the highest of standard . Remember there is good organic and bad organic . I mean there is traces of radiation in your backyard were your organic weed is growing .
 
ounevinsmoke

ounevinsmoke

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
my apology to Heisenberg still stands. Churchaze was out of line. It had nothing to do with science, however.
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I will apologize to Heisenburg when he comes off his high horse and provides links and names in reference to his sticky in dwc like he did in this thread.
 
ounevinsmoke

ounevinsmoke

Well-Known Member
Tone5500 said:
And for the people that hold organic to the highest of standard . Remember there is good organic and bad organic . I mean there is traces of radiation in your backyard were your organic weed is growing .
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+

Ok but do you have any idea of whats in the mine or factory where your NPK nutes are derived. Should we hold these places in higher regard because they are gov regulated?
 
rob333

rob333

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
Why or why not?

Facts:

No animal products (bones,blood, manure)

Less water usage

No risk for diseases (e coli)

Less farm space to produce much much more product

No water run off in recirculating systems

Faster growth which means more harvests per year

Cheaper cost per crop

Less labor intensive

Healthier (much less harmful chemicals in hydroponic nutes than found in unrefined fertilizer... Such as radium and fluoride

What's everyone elses input? Unrefined vs refined Part 2.
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if u dont no how to grow in the hydro setup it will screw u so hard it aint just put plants in and grow u really gota diel that shit in 7 years later and i still get issues with mine way it runs lol i would go in soil your first few goes or even coco but dont jump into hydro working at a shop i have sold many a setup for it to be sold bacl to me for half the price as people have a tend of spending money on super dooper setups and fuck it up i always say go soil till u no how to grow then try your hand at hydro
 
AlphaPhase

AlphaPhase

Well-Known Member
ounevin- I haven't tried organic hydro yet, but plan to some time in the near future once I have more space for trial grows.

rob333 said:
if u dont no how to grow in the hydro setup it will screw u so hard it aint just put plants in and grow u really gota diel that shit in 7 years later and i still get issues with mine way it runs lol i would go in soil your first few goes or even coco but dont jump into hydro working at a shop i have sold many a setup for it to be sold bacl to me for half the price as people have a tend of spending money on super dooper setups and fuck it up i always say go soil till u no how to grow then try your hand at hydro
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I've always found hydro much easier than soil, but I know what you're saying, some people do have a hard time figuring it out. I started in soil years ago and didn't know about hydroponics at the time. When I visited my friends grow about 12 years ago, he was growing hydro which sparked my interest and then I made some DIY hydro systems. I had a good teacher which probably helped me avoid a lot of errors. The key to hydro is keeping it clean and simple. Less is more. Start with a low PPM of nutrients and slowly raise the concentration over time. It's easy to see how the plants respond once you get the hang of it. If the water level goes down and the PPM goes up, there is too much nutrients. If the opposite happens, there are too few nutrients. Let the ph stay between 5.3 and 6.2 and the rest will fall into place.
 
ounevinsmoke

ounevinsmoke

Well-Known Member
AlphaPhase said:
ounevin- I haven't tried organic hydro yet, but plan to some time in the near future once I have more space for trial grows.


I've always found hydro much easier than soil, but I know what you're saying, some people do have a hard time figuring it out. I started in soil years ago and didn't know about hydroponics at the time. When I visited my friends grow about 12 years ago, he was growing hydro which sparked my interest and then I made some DIY hydro systems. I had a good teacher which probably helped me avoid a lot of errors. The key to hydro is keeping it clean and simple. Less is more. Start with a low PPM of nutrients and slowly raise the concentration over time. It's easy to see how the plants respond once you get the hang of it. If the water level goes down and the PPM goes up, there is too much nutrients. If the opposite happens, there are too few nutrients. Let the ph stay between 5.3 and 6.2 and the rest will fall into place.
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Your grasp of hydro sounds solid, but if you put store bought organic nutes in your soup prepare yourself. Its hard to explain its just different.

Hydro, in my opinion works better with synthetics. Let me re-word that. Synthetics seemingly give you more control in Hydro.
 
Tone5500

Tone5500

Well-Known Member
ounevinsmoke said:
+

Ok but do you have any idea of whats in the mine or factory where your NPK nutes are derived. Should we hold these places in higher regard because they are gov regulated?
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Mines yes scents I no how they are regulated because I work at a salt recovery unit on a mine site . How ever Sister company's that processes and extract these minerals and heavy and light rare earths aren't regulated scents they are over seas . I no were yor getting at . And comparing the food industry and all its flaws is not the same as a company that is refining salts or pulling ca/mg out of salt water or other process streams
 
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