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Rob Roy

Rob Roy

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My point was property rights of the INDIVIDUAL are usually DEPRIVED by a central coercive authority / government. Do you disagree with that?

My other point was the true realization of a right is via expression by an INDIVIDUAL, not thru a coercion based collective.

Gangs, such as coercive governments can align their interests to deprive individuals of a property right, but property rights do not arise from those gangs. The usurpation of individual rights, including an individuals right to HIS property, is what governments do.

Ogg made his spear, he owns it. Ogg's right to HIS property does not arise from the existence of a central coercive authority. It arises from his labor mixing with natural resources.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

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Rob Roy said:
My point was property rights of the INDIVIDUAL are usually DEPRIVED by a central coercive authority / government. Do you disagree with that?
Click to expand...
Tl:dr

I'll pass on the hypothetical bullshit since we're talking about defined terms. Your point is irrelevant. Property rights come from government and the laws are well defined. Seriously, do you even know what property rights are?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Tl:dr

I'll pass on the hypothetical bullshit since we're talking about defined terms. Your point is irrelevant. Property rights come from government and the laws are well defined. Seriously, do you even know what property rights are?
Click to expand...

Nope. They don't come from government. Your right to "own" something is the same whether government respects the right or usurps it. Government can create laws, that attempt to define or redefine what a right is, but that isn't the same thing as what I'm talking about.

My point is VERY relevant. You are afraid to go there. Property can be created by mixing labor with natural resources. It can also be unowned and in a state of existence prior to transformation by a person into another state of existence. That's what Ogg did, he "made" property. His example is one you don't like and dismiss as hypothetical, why?

There are many kinds of "property". We probably share some ideas about what should or should not be owned, but you seem reluctant to have a real conversation and to state your own beliefs.

I respect that you might be able to have a good conversation about property, I really do, but you seem guarded.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Yes, they most certainly do.
Click to expand...

Do people have the right to create property from unowned (not being used or owned by another person) natural resources?

How else would a person practice agriculture if they don't have this right?

How else would a person create a tool or build a hut, or a home?

Do those things predate coercive government? Yes they do, how can they arise from government, if they predate them?

Perhaps YOUR definition of property and mine are different. You refuse to state what yours is and also refuse to really refute mine or discuss any examples I give.

You've also tried to get me defend crony capitalism, which is not something I care to defend. Maybe you have something to teach me?
 
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NoDrama

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You don't sell lemonade, you give lemonade away and ask for donations.
You don't need a permit to give lemonade away, you just need one to sell it.
 
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