Organic Vs. Synthetic Nutrients

GreenSanta

GreenSanta

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Bullshit. Everyone knows synthetic yields more in a given pot size.
Click to expand...
I did not mean someone using ''organic'' bottled nutrients, I mean someone that really knows what they are doing, yield more with organic. Also yields a far superior product. But anyway I wanted to share my opinion and I did. never seen anyone yields more per sq ft than a properly vegged sub irrigated planter with living soil. Have fun with your bottles... END
 
Jubilant

Jubilant

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Bullshit. Everyone knows synthetic yields more in a given pot size.
Click to expand...
"Soilless" yields more for container size as you can grow huge plants in tiny containers with hydro, ect.. Synthetics themselves do not.

Feeding synthetics to a soil container will not yield more than a living soil container by some rule, as you are stating.

It is possible as all growers have different skills with their grow styles but organic soil containers have very healthy plants that yield great that you do not have to monitor and adjust feeding (which has a high skill cap.) Where in living soil you can just water with....well.....only water. Lot more room for error in synthetics to hurt yield.
 
Last edited:
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Jubilant said:
"Soilless" yields more for container size as you can grow huge plants in tiny containers with hydro, ect.. Synthetics themselves do not.

Feeding synthetics to a soil container will not yield more than a living soil container by some rule, as you are stating.

It is possible as all growers have different skills with their grow styles but organic soil containers have very healthy plants that yield great that you do not have to monitor and adjust feeding (which has a high skill cap.) Where in living soil you can just water with....well.....only water. Lot more room for error in synthetics to hurt yield.
Click to expand...
The earlier video explained it when she said that 50% of the sugar created by photosynthesis is sent to the roots to feed the bacteria & fungi in the rhizosphere. These bacteria & fungi then process organic matter to make it available to the plant. That's how organic works.
Synthetic nutrients are available to the plant immediately and do not need to be processed by microorganisms in the soil. The plant knows this and will actually repel mycorrhizal fungi because their services are no longer required. Now most of the sugar from photosynthesis can go into growth and flowers instead of food for microbes.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
BTW: I like organic. It's not perfect, but definitely requires less effort overall. Not having to mix nutes, measure ph, or deal with runoff is a major plus.
Now having said that, I've got six plants that just started week 4. Two of them are soilless/synthetic & the other four are organic. All plants were started at the same time, but the two plants in soilless are totally kicking the shit out of the other four as far as growth & overall health are concerned. DynaGro Foliage Pro + cal-mag works pretty damn good!
My other plants are doing fine & maybe they'll make a comeback, but I'm loving the soilless right now. :hump:
 
majins

majins

Well-Known Member
For me its made 0 difference in yield and taste.
Originally I was all about all organic. But had a few plants which ran synthetic since I was given some canna brand fert that was due to expire in a years time.
Then switched over to straight perlite and the organic tea would always leave more of a bad smell in the grow room but still stuck with it since I had a massive bottle to use up.
Wasnt until the 3rd crop of DWC which I switched to only synthetic since the root mass was always perfectly white on it where the organic would go yellowish and require twice the res changes to keep the smell down which ran my bottle out quite quickly.
 
GreenSanta

GreenSanta

Well-Known Member
there are so many different categories, one might grow hydro, flood and drain, soil less whatever I can't even keep track anymore. If you compare hydro vs organic with bottled nutes in equal pot size you will likely see synthetic kicking the ass of organics. However, where organics shine, is in big pots, with true living soil, compost, bugs, worms, mulch ... and nothing but water for the whole cycle.

But if we are talking yields per sq ft or GPW, nothing stops you from using massive containers and that is where soil organics can out-yield synthetics.
 
JmanJtight

JmanJtight

Active Member
Plants only take up inorganic nutrients. They take up pure elements. Typically elements that are bound to a carbon molecule are what we mean by organic nutrients. These organic nutrients have to be converted to inorganic nutrients through the process of micro organisms consuming the organic carbon based elements and releasing the elemental inorganic plant available forms either as poop or by microbe death. So the biggest difference right off the bat is when growing organic, root zone temperatures need to ideally be above 68 degrees to start waking up microbe activity along with oxygen (most conversions are aerobic), which will convert the organic nutrient into inorganic form.

two problems tend to arise with Borgia can but can easily be managed: nutrient availability and sodium concentrations. If root zone temps are off or a low pH is present (microbes don't like that) your conversions will be slow or non exsistent. As well if using cheap fish fertilizers, sodium content is usually very high. Watch out for sodium increasing your EC values. It's important to check the drain EC REGULARLY. EC meters only pick up inorganic nutrients by sending an electrical charge through the water and return the resistance of the that reading back to the meter to show the overall concentration.

The only inorganic element usually found in organic fertilizers is NH4 or ammonium & and potassium sulfate. Although a synthetic inorganic nutrient, NH4 still needs bacteria in its availability process. This said, it is a good example of how the bacteria work for organic nutrient forms. Plants can up take this form of nitrogen, NH4, but most plants like the NO3 nitrate form more, which is also an inorganic form. They can store more NO3 than NH4. So two bacteria come along, naturally occurring all around us, called nitrosumonus and nitrobacter. They convert the NH4 to Nitrite and then nitrate, the plant available form when the root zone temps are usually above 65-68F. Amazing how nature works. Organics is really balance of natures behavior, while inorganics is a more scientific exact numbers game of adjusting ppm values. Organics to me is more of a ratios game than exact nutrient numbers.

However, let it be noted that many fish fertilizers and guano contain organic NO3 nitrogen. This means that nature already has done the conversion process and it was not instigated by man made processes.

However, again, compost teas are a good example of fermenting and colonizing natural airborne bacteria to convert the organic goodness in the tea to plant available forms though lots of (man) added oxygen through a bubbler or aerator. This is a great way to speed up the natural conversion processes for plant available forms derived from organic sources.

Just remember all organics need to be converted by root zone micro organisms to be used by plants.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
JmanJtight said:
Plants only take up inorganic nutrients. They take up pure elements. Typically elements that are bound to a carbon molecule are what we mean by organic nutrients. These organic nutrients have to be converted to inorganic nutrients through the process of micro organisms consuming the organic carbon based elements and releasing the elemental inorganic plant available forms either as poop or by microbe death. So the biggest difference right off the bat is when growing organic, root zone temperatures need to ideally be above 68 degrees to start waking up microbe activity along with oxygen (most conversions are aerobic), which will convert the organic nutrient into inorganic form.

two problems tend to arise with Borgia can but can easily be managed: nutrient availability and sodium concentrations. If root zone temps are off or a low pH is present (microbes don't like that) your conversions will be slow or non exsistent. As well if using cheap fish fertilizers, sodium content is usually very high. Watch out for sodium increasing your EC values. It's important to check the drain EC REGULARLY. EC meters only pick up inorganic nutrients by sending an electrical charge through the water and return the resistance of the that reading back to the meter to show the overall concentration.

The only inorganic element usually found in organic fertilizers is NH4 or ammonium & and potassium sulfate. Although a synthetic inorganic nutrient, NH4 still needs bacteria in its availability process. This said, it is a good example of how the bacteria work for organic nutrient forms. Plants can up take this form of nitrogen, NH4, but most plants like the NO3 nitrate form more, which is also an inorganic form. They can store more NO3 than NH4. So two bacteria come along, naturally occurring all around us, called nitrosumonus and nitrobacter. They convert the NH4 to Nitrite and then nitrate, the plant available form when the root zone temps are usually above 65-68F. Amazing how nature works. Organics is really balance of natures behavior, while inorganics is a more scientific exact numbers game of adjusting ppm values. Organics to me is more of a ratios game than exact nutrient numbers.

However, let it be noted that many fish fertilizers and guano contain organic NO3 nitrogen. This means that nature already has done the conversion process and it was not instigated by man made processes.

However, again, compost teas are a good example of fermenting and colonizing natural airborne bacteria to convert the organic goodness in the tea to plant available forms though lots of (man) added oxygen through a bubbler or aerator. This is a great way to speed up the natural conversion processes for plant available forms derived from organic sources.

Just remember all organics need to be converted by root zone micro organisms to be used by plants.
Click to expand...
Most growers do not realize that plants feed the soil organisms, which is why organic yields are generally lower than synthetic. Plants in organic mediums also need larger pots to accommodate a much more diverse rhizosphere.
I have also noticed that it takes a long time for organic soil mixes to reach their full potential. At first the behave just like soilless and require a synthetic "jump start" or deficiencies will develop -- especially calmag.
 
I

Illies1982

Member
Organic all the way. When the big boys come in and they will with monster green house no one will be able to keep up with them, but they will never be able to do it organically. But with all the robots and machines they will be selling pounds for 300 500 hundred hydroponically. I would learn how to grow organically if you are going to stay in business.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Illies1982 said:
Organic all the way. When the big boys come in and they will with monster green house no one will be able to keep up with them, but they will never be able to do it organically. But with all the robots and machines they will be selling pounds for 300 500 hundred hydroponically. I would learn how to grow organically if you are going to stay in business.
Click to expand...
:roll: :dunce:

:cool:
 
Giggsy70

Giggsy70

Well-Known Member
I believe I read somewhere in the past where you could use a sprout seed tea only for the whole life of the plant. Rye seeds were recommended for veg and corn during flower. Make the tea and use asap or add sugars and ferment.
Do I need more ingredients or can I just go with the tea to cover all the needs of the plants?
Thanks ahead of time
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
What if its organic hydro? :bigjoint:
Click to expand...
What do you mean, like a SIP? Cause a lot of people think they are doing organic when actually they are just doing drain to waste hydro. To me organic means the soil/microbes are the source of food and that source is breaking down materials and bonded with the rhizosphere or the plants, forming a symbiotic relationship.

Not pouring bottles of "organic" hydro drain to waste nutrients on your soil, that is not organic gardening.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
But yields less cannabinoids and terpenes, hydro might be great for weight but not great for quality.
Click to expand...
Where do you get this information?
Sounds subjective to me.
I have a preference for organic, but coco DTW is my choice for indoor crops. (I just finished an outdoor crop in organic soil.)
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Where do you get this information?
Sounds subjective to me.
I have a preference for organic, but coco DTW is my choice for indoor crops. (I just finished an outdoor crop in organic soil.)
Click to expand...
Personal experience, aka growing the same cut in hydro and organic right next to each other under the same lights and then sampling the final product. It's also been documented that organic produces more flavonoids , antioxidents and other benefictial compounds since there's more trace minerals and micronutrients in the soil.
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
Personal experience, aka growing the same cut in hydro and organic right next to each other under the same lights and then sampling the final product. It's also been documented that organic produces more flavonoids , antioxidents and other benefictial compounds since there's more trace minerals and micronutrients in the soil.
Click to expand...
So your test was subjective, as I suspected.
Documented where? By who?
Shit gets "documented" daily on RIU by dumb fucks... :dunce:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top