High Light efficiency tests (TEKNIK) - 2.47 umol/j CRI 94.2

[Prawn Connery]

Yes, on the subject of orientation, I could reorientate the panels to shine down with the "User Defined" Mounting type, but my program would not save changes, so I just went back to having it shine on the ceiling and work in reverse.

Perhaps all these bugs are fixed in Dialux 8 Evo. Perhaps it's just my virtual machine. But once you get the hang of it, you can still do all the basic stuff to get a fairly accurate light footprint.

Again, if TEKNIK was here he might be able to help us all with this stuff, but c'est la vie.

 

[wingerdinger]

Hey mate, well you won't have any trouble filling that 4.5 x 4.5. Here is the plot at 2.5A (120W per board) at 24". One thing I'm learning from this program is that the closer to the corners you can get the panels, the more even the light spread.

Of course, this map doesn't take into account your T5 reptile bulbs, so there will be even more light in there.

80% reflectivity
View attachment 4335241

70% reflectivity
View attachment 4335242

Hey bud,
Could you do a map with 6 boards powered by 2x 320s in a 4x4
When your free of course, no rush

 

[Prawn Connery]

Hey bud,
Could you do a map with 6 boards powered by 2x 320s in a 4x4
When your free of course, no rush

Hi mate, here is what a 3.6m x 1.2m table looks like with 18 boards (6 per 4x4) at 15" with a HLG-320H-48A driving each three boards (6 drivers total) and supplying 2.5A per board.

Because this is an open room, I'm assuming there is not much reflection from the walls, so I have set reflectivity at 20%, which is fairly low. You can see how the light tapers off around the edges.



Same configuration with 30% reflectivity


Best case might be 40%



With 70% reflective walls (typical tent or enclosed space), this is the same configuration at 18"


And here it is as 24"

 

[Frank Cannon]

I'm getting there, just having trouble importing my luminaire.

I'm going to delete the files redownliad and unzip and see how I go.

Did you have to use an IES app to open when you are choosing the board from downloads? Windows is asking me which app to open with when all I want to do is select the luminaire...
FC

 

[wingerdinger]

Hi mate, here is what a 3.6m x 1.2m table looks like with 18 boards (6 per 4x4) at 15" with a HLG-320H-48A driving each three boards (6 drivers total) and supplying 2.5A per board.

Because this is an open room, I'm assuming there is not much reflection from the walls, so I have set reflectivity at 20%, which is fairly low. You can see how the light tapers off around the edges.

View attachment 4335754

Same configuration with 30% reflectivity
View attachment 4335762

Best case might be 40%
View attachment 4335763


With 70% reflective walls (typical tent or enclosed space), this is the same configuration at 18"
View attachment 4335755

And here it is as 24"
View attachment 4335757

Thanks mate
I plan on hanging sheets of panda around the tables to increase reflection,
So judging by that map, i should have the boards roughly 10cm from the edges and 15cm in between the boards?

 

[Prawn Connery]

Thanks mate
I plan on hanging sheets of panda around the tables to increase reflection,
So judging by that map, i should have the boards roughly 10cm from the edges and 15cm in between the boards?

Mate, I've been very conservative with my reflectivity figures. According to Dialux, a plaster wall is considered a 78% reflective surface, and a flat white wall is 85%.

At 80%, this is what your room looks like at 18" (45cm).


Here are the specs. The boards are 64cm from centre to centre width-wise (1.2m) and 28cm from the edge to the centre. So about 7cm from the edge. Lengthwise, the boards are spaced 41cm from centre to centre apart, and 16cm from the edge to centre. So again, about 6cm from the edge. If the numbers don't add up, it's because what you see below is the illuminated surface of each board (380 x 185mm), while the boards themselves are 415 x 205mm). So when I say 6/7cm to the edge, that is from the edge of the physical board to the edge of the grow area.




On a related note, you should consider getting 9x ELG-240-48A drivers (one for each pair of boards) rather than 6x HLG-320H-48A drivers, as you save A$120 and will be able to drive the boards much higher (up to around 150W each). This is especially useful if you ever want to mount your boards on sheet ally or another heatsink-type surface. You can also run the boards without heatsinks up to 150W if you have enough air movement in your grow room.

ELG-240 = $62: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/elg-240-48a/mean-well-enterprises

HLG-320 = $113: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/hlg-320h-48a/mean-well-enterprises

Difference in price is $558 vs $678.

EDIT: I don't own any ELG drivers myself (I've got a bunch of HLG-240H-48A drivers) and I believe the only downside to them is they do not have an earth wire (two-wire mains). However, you can earth them when you mount them.

 

[Or_Gro]

Use the Wizard. You can find it in the drop-down menu under "File". You want "DIALux Light Wizard".

I don't pretend to know how to use all this software, but this is the simplest solution I could find to get results. But I've also needed to use a couple of work-arounds.

View attachment 4335713


Once inside, you need to set your room geometry, reflective factors and luminaire selection - here you can import the IES files by clicking "Catalogues" and going to "My Database".

When you import an IES file, you must give it dimensions - type "380mm x 185mm x 2mm" in both fields.

If you can't see the IES file when trying to import it, try "All Files". If you can't see the files after you have imported them, click "Delete My Database" but DON'T delete it - the files should show up and you can exit. This is a bug with my machine - not sure if any of you will suffer the same.

One quirk of the system is the panels shine directly on to the roof - not the ground (I haven't been able to find a way to reverse this). See where it says "Workplace"? You can see the red line above it where the luminare is shining on the roof (orientation). When setting "Workplace Height" you need to work in reverse.

The height of the room in this example is 1m. The High Lights are set 600mm from the ground - or 400mm from the ceiling (distance from illuminated surface). If you wanted 2' height, you would set it at 400mm from the ground = 600mm (2') to the illuminated surface.

Also note I have set the walls and ground to 70% reflectivity and ceiling to 20%. This is the "upside down" configuration - the ceiling is really the ground in this example and vice versa.

View attachment 4335720

On the next page you can play around with your High Light configuration. Once you are happy with it, click "Calculate" and watch the magic happen. Be sure you have selected the correct luminaire, as sometimes it defaults to a certain luminaire when you click back and forth between pages. Yes, there are a few bugs . . . At least with my machine.

View attachment 4335718


Here is the calculation.

View attachment 4335722

Thanks man, i’ll be trying it out sometime after i finish harvest/trim.

 

[Or_Gro]

Hi mate, here is what a 3.6m x 1.2m table looks like with 18 boards (6 per 4x4) at 15" with a HLG-320H-48A driving each three boards (6 drivers total) and supplying 2.5A per board.

Because this is an open room, I'm assuming there is not much reflection from the walls, so I have set reflectivity at 20%, which is fairly low. You can see how the light tapers off around the edges.

View attachment 4335754

Same configuration with 30% reflectivity
View attachment 4335762

Best case might be 40%
View attachment 4335763


With 70% reflective walls (typical tent or enclosed space), this is the same configuration at 18"
View attachment 4335755

And here it is as 24"
View attachment 4335757

Great coverage crawfish!....


have you been sanity checking these types of output with a par meter? If so, are the results pretty close?

The way i look at it, this approach, if accurate, should help on both purchase and fixture placement decisions....followed up by lux/par meter tuning for actual canopy coverage, with dimmer and height adjustment....

Thanks again to you and Teknik!!!

 

[Or_Gro]

Mate, I've been very conservative with my reflectivity figures. According to Dialux, a plaster wall is considered a 78% reflective surface, and a flat white wall is 85%.

At 80%, this is what your room looks like at 18" (45cm).
View attachment 4335790

Here are the specs. The boards are 64cm from centre to centre width-wise (1.2m) and 28cm from the edge to the centre. So about 7cm from the edge. Lengthwise, the boards are spaced 41cm from centre to centre apart, and 16cm from the edge to centre. So again, about 6cm from the edge. If the numbers don't add up, it's because what you see below is the illuminated surface of each board (380 x 185mm), while the boards themselves are 415 x 205mm). So when I say 6/7cm to the edge, that is from the edge of the physical board to the edge of the grow area.

View attachment 4335792


On a related note, you should consider getting 9x ELG-240-48A drivers (one for each pair of boards) rather than 6x HLG-320H-48A drivers, as you save A$120 and will be able to drive the boards much higher (up to around 150W each). This is especially useful if you ever want to mount your boards on sheet ally or another heatsink-type surface. You can also run the boards without heatsinks up to 150W if you have enough air movement in your grow room.

ELG-240 = $62: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/elg-240-48a/mean-well-enterprises

HLG-320 = $113: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/hlg-320h-48a/mean-well-enterprises

Difference in price is $558 vs $678.

EDIT: I don't own any ELG drivers myself (I've got a bunch of HLG-240H-48A drivers) and I believe the only downside to them is they do not have an earth wire (two-wire mains). However, you can earth them when you mount them.

Prawn, this is what i call customer service....when was the last time anyone got this type of info from any light company?

 

[Frank Cannon]

Im still struggling to get the IES luminaire in my wizard. I'm running windows 10. I might try the later dialux software I think. Once I get this sorted I think it will be quite easy to change my variables to see max efficiency vs coverage.

 

[Or_Gro]

Im still struggling to get the IES luminaire in my wizard. I'm running windows 10. I might try the later dialux software I think. Once I get this sorted I think it will be quite easy to change my variables to see max efficiency vs coverage.

Please lemme know what works for you Win10 here.

 

[wingerdinger]

Mate, I've been very conservative with my reflectivity figures. According to Dialux, a plaster wall is considered a 78% reflective surface, and a flat white wall is 85%.

At 80%, this is what your room looks like at 18" (45cm).
View attachment 4335790

Here are the specs. The boards are 64cm from centre to centre width-wise (1.2m) and 28cm from the edge to the centre. So about 7cm from the edge. Lengthwise, the boards are spaced 41cm from centre to centre apart, and 16cm from the edge to centre. So again, about 6cm from the edge. If the numbers don't add up, it's because what you see below is the illuminated surface of each board (380 x 185mm), while the boards themselves are 415 x 205mm). So when I say 6/7cm to the edge, that is from the edge of the physical board to the edge of the grow area.

View attachment 4335792


On a related note, you should consider getting 9x ELG-240-48A drivers (one for each pair of boards) rather than 6x HLG-320H-48A drivers, as you save A$120 and will be able to drive the boards much higher (up to around 150W each). This is especially useful if you ever want to mount your boards on sheet ally or another heatsink-type surface. You can also run the boards without heatsinks up to 150W if you have enough air movement in your grow room.

ELG-240 = $62: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/elg-240-48a/mean-well-enterprises

HLG-320 = $113: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/hlg-320h-48a/mean-well-enterprises

Difference in price is $558 vs $678.

EDIT: I don't own any ELG drivers myself (I've got a bunch of HLG-240H-48A drivers) and I believe the only downside to them is they do not have an earth wire (two-wire mains). However, you can earth them when you mount them.

Thanks prawn, i very much appreciate your hard work.
Before the map i was going to mount them closer together, but now i see i would of created hot spots in the centre.

 

[klx]

I bet the guys who have spent countless hours taping squares onto floors and then painstakingly manually recording par readings are curled up in the foetal position right now watching the speed you are pumping out these numbers lol

 

[coreywebster]

Im still struggling to get the IES luminaire in my wizard. I'm running windows 10. I might try the later dialux software I think. Once I get this sorted I think it will be quite easy to change my variables to see max efficiency vs coverage.

On Dialux evo 8.1 or whatever its called you select simple room, then from there you click file and import luminaire.
That's assuming you already unpacked the downloaded ies zip folder. If you haven't unzipped it then you need winzip or 7zip or some other program.

 

[Randomblame]

Mate, I've been very conservative with my reflectivity figures. According to Dialux, a plaster wall is considered a 78% reflective surface, and a flat white wall is 85%.

At 80%, this is what your room looks like at 18" (45cm).
View attachment 4335790

Here are the specs. The boards are 64cm from centre to centre width-wise (1.2m) and 28cm from the edge to the centre. So about 7cm from the edge. Lengthwise, the boards are spaced 41cm from centre to centre apart, and 16cm from the edge to centre. So again, about 6cm from the edge. If the numbers don't add up, it's because what you see below is the illuminated surface of each board (380 x 185mm), while the boards themselves are 415 x 205mm). So when I say 6/7cm to the edge, that is from the edge of the physical board to the edge of the grow area.

View attachment 4335792


On a related note, you should consider getting 9x ELG-240-48A drivers (one for each pair of boards) rather than 6x HLG-320H-48A drivers, as you save A$120 and will be able to drive the boards much higher (up to around 150W each). This is especially useful if you ever want to mount your boards on sheet ally or another heatsink-type surface. You can also run the boards without heatsinks up to 150W if you have enough air movement in your grow room.

ELG-240 = $62: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/elg-240-48a/mean-well-enterprises

HLG-320 = $113: https://www.arrow.com/en/products/hlg-320h-48a/mean-well-enterprises

Difference in price is $558 vs $678.

EDIT: I don't own any ELG drivers myself (I've got a bunch of HLG-240H-48A drivers) and I believe the only downside to them is they do not have an earth wire (two-wire mains). However, you can earth them when you mount them.

ELG drivers work almost the same but there are three things different.
They are ~1% less efficient (93 vs 94% compared to an HLG-240)
they need 220-240v to deliver 100% output, with 110-120v you only get 75% and
they are dimmable down to 0/off also the smaller ones but that costs a bit efficiency.

I would use 240v anyway cuz even HLG-drivers are more efficient with higher AC input only the power factor(PF) goes down a bit.

 

[Randomblame]

I'm getting there, just having trouble importing my luminaire.

I'm going to delete the files redownliad and unzip and see how I go.

Did you have to use an IES app to open when you are choosing the board from downloads? Windows is asking me which app to open with when all I want to do is select the luminaire...
FC

Maybe windows wants just some kind of permission?! Have you tried to chose dialux as prefered app to open these files? Windows should only ask one time and as soon as dialux has the permission to open that files you should be able to import them.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Great coverage crawfish!....


have you been sanity checking these types of output with a par meter? If so, are the results pretty close?

The way i look at it, this approach, if accurate, should help on both purchase and fixture placement decisions....followed up by lux/par meter tuning for actual canopy coverage, with dimmer and height adjustment....

Thanks again to you and Teknik!!!

Mate, they've roughly lined up with your figures, the preliminary figures I did over an open 3'x3' area, and my 4'x2'. I'm going to double check my 4'x2' with different currents to see if they all pan out, but so far everything seems to be near enough. TEKNIK says past gonio testing has shown the IES files to be pretty much spot on. There will always be a few variables such as wall reflectivity etc, but even physical PAR mapping on a grid pattern - which you have a lot of experience with - can have variables depending on where you place the PAR meter and how your tent is "hanging" at the time.

I've also discovered the Lighting Passport I am using is fairly accurate up to about 1000 PPFD, but tends to read about 5% below the Apogee up to that point, then the margin of error increases to up to 10% after 1000 PPFD.

Have a look at this video from 09.08 onwards:

Thanks prawn, i very much appreciate your hard work.
Before the map i was going to mount them closer together, but now i see i would of created hot spots in the centre.

Mate, buy yourself a cheap LUX meter (light meter) and then use the conversion rate of 62.5 to get PPFD. That is, if your lux meter reads 62,500, then you have 1,000 PPFD. That number works for these panels (it doesn't work for QBs and strips etc, that have their own conversion rate).

You can use the lux meter to spread your panels for the best coverage, and then double-check PAR by dividing the lux number by 62.5.

 

[Prawn Connery]

ELG drivers work almost the same but there are three things different.
They are ~1% less efficient (93 vs 94% compared to an HLG-240)
they need 220-240v to deliver 100% output, with 110-120v you only get 75% and
they are dimmable down to 0/off also the smaller ones but that costs a bit efficiency.

I would use 240v anyway cuz even HLG-drivers are more efficient with higher AC input only the power factor(PF) goes down a bit.

We're all on 230V here, so the ELGs work to full capacity. Only the earth wire is missing - is that correct?

 

[Randomblame]

Yeah, they have only two input wires but the case is grounded so you only need to ground the fixture if you want. But they also have short circuit protection and switch off as soon as there is a lose wire touching the fixture or so.

That's below is one of two ELG-200-48B, 48v/4,16A so it drives 2 boards in parallel and each board gets maybe up to 2,25A in real(108% current). But the circuit is limited to 48v so I can not say if the boards will eat that much current. I've a pretty good heat-sink too which means lower temps compared to no heat sink and therefor a slightly higher voltage. I'm pretty sure to get at least 2 amps per board all other is a plus I've not expected to get. The circuit voltage tolerance is ±2% so its possible.
I'll see how much they draw when warmed up cuz I have the same AV meters like Or_Gro to display circuit voltage, current and watts of each fixture not just wall watts.

 

[Or_Gro]

Mate, they've roughly lined up with your figures, the preliminary figures I did over an open 3'x3' area, and my 4'x2'. I'm going to double check my 4'x2' with different currents to see if they all pan out, but so far everything seems to be near enough. TEKNIK says past gonio testing has shown the IES files to be pretty much spot on. There will always be a few variables such as wall reflectivity etc, but even physical PAR mapping on a grid pattern - which you have a lot of experience with - can have variables depending on where you place the PAR meter and how your tent is "hanging" at the time.

I've also discovered the Lighting Passport I am using is fairly accurate up to about 1000 PPFD, but tends to read about 5% below the Apogee up to that point, then the margin of error increases to up to 10% after 1000 PPFD.

Have a look at this video from 09.08 onwards:

Mate, buy yourself a cheap LUX meter (light meter) and then use the conversion rate of 62.5 to get PPFD. That is, if your lux meter reads 62,500, then you have 1,000 PPFD. That number works for these panels (it doesn't work for QBs and strips etc, that have their own conversion rate).

You can use the lux meter to spread your panels for the best coverage, and then double-check PAR by dividing the lux number by 62.5.

Thanks prawn, so you/teknik are saying that Teknik’s method makes @Stephenj37826 ’s objection invalid, at least for growers like me, who don’t need the umpteenth level of accuracy to make a buying or positioning decision?

Thanks also for the lux->ppfd conversion factor. Thst’s closer to a cmh CF than a QB...

https://www.apogeeinstruments.com/conversion-ppfd-to-lux/

https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/blogs/calculators/converting-lux-to-ppfd