Russia is supporting Bernie Sanders as well as Trump again in 2020.

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I cannot stand that he sat back and watched as Putin unleashed his military into our minority communities, so he could push a few hot button phrases that he knew would work to get their votes, and he said nothing to warn us.

And it is still ongoing. And he is saying nothing.
He keeps insisting he doesn't know the cost of his healthcare plan also, which is a massive lie. He knows damn well it would cost 3 trillion per year, so 30 trillion for the decade he plans in it. The estimate comes from an epidemiologist who worked closely with his campaign. She even published the study in The Lancet, one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the world. Then, his campaign cited the study in some propaganda to cherry pick it while leaving out the cost.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
He keeps insisting he doesn't know the cost of his healthcare plan also, which is a massive lie. He knows damn well it would cost 3 trillion per year, so 30 trillion for the decade he plans in it. The estimate comes from an epidemiologist who worked closely with his campaign. She even published the study in The Lancet, one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the world. Then, his campaign cited the study in some propaganda to cherry pick it while leaving out the cost.
I was going to make a joke about it earlier and got sidetracked by people sticking up for Bernie's use of Russian military trolls being somehow ok.

I saw he said something about 'studies' on it. which is suspect because there isn't a bill on it to study, and any economist I have heard talk about it have said there is no way to really know what is going to happen.

Also economists wouldn't give a single number, they would give ranges of possibilities, which the politicians then pick a number they like and use that.

My joke was going to start out with /engage black guy making fun of nerdy white guy voice to explain that in more detail using their bullshit numbers.

And end with the fact that it doesn't matter because Bernie is not going to win the Senate and House if he wins the Presidency, so their make belief numbers are just noise to distract from the fact that they are foreign trolls attacking our electorate for Bernie, Trump, and ultimately Putin.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Yup, they were also impeaching Biden at the time too.

That is the problem, they need to start shouting it. No matter how much you feel about it.

You are not seeing it because trolls are flooding the zone with anything but this issue and anytime it is brought up 10 people jump out of the troll woodwork to shout that person down and say there is no such thing as Russia. And you are just doing Trump's and Putins work.

Which is exactly what you did, sometimes I do feel like I see Russians in everyone too. But when you say stupid shit and ignore what is going on, and then tell me to do the same, yes I suspect you too. But at least you are upfront about not being an American.
I honestly don't think there are many Russians here, just domestic assholes and Trumpers for the most part, they seem to panic when Donald is in shit, but are remaining silent in hopes that the democrats will dig their own graves while they watch. Your thinking is similar to a born yesterday christian, if someone speaks contrary to their beliefs they are labeled an agent of Satan. The Russians are not omnipotent, they fuck up too and might have done so with Bernie, if he's running away with it you'll see Trump turn on him and the Russians too. If he wins the nomination the intelligence community will endorse him as will all the newspapers, that would be good enough for me too. I share your concerns about Russian interference and Trump's treason more than most here and I'm a Canadian patriot, as well as a friend of America. When you do well, we do well and Trump betrayed my country and NATO too. I'm trying to show some respect by not getting too involved in the primary process, I'm here for the big show, the doing of the Donald. Donald is shall we say a "transnational problem" one that kinda transcends borders, because of kids in cages on the southern border...
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I honestly don't think there are many Russians here, just domestic assholes and Trumpers for the most part, they seem to panic when Donald is in shit, but are remaining silent in hopes that the democrats will dig their own graves while they watch. Your thinking is similar to a born yesterday christian, if someone speaks contrary to their beliefs they are labeled an agent of Satan. The Russians are not omnipotent, they fuck up too and might have done so with Bernie, if he's running away with it you'll see Trump turn on him and the Russians too. If he wins the nomination the intelligence community will endorse him as will all the newspapers, that would be good enough for me too. I share your concerns about Russian interference and Trump's treason more than most here and I'm a Canadian patriot, as well as a friend of America. When you do well, we do well and Trump betrayed my country and NATO too. I'm trying to show some respect by not getting too involved in the primary process, I'm here for the big show, the doing of the Donald. Donald is shall we say a "transnational problem" one that kinda transcends borders, because of kids in cages on the southern border...
Then you haven't paid attention man.

You are obviously now trying to get under my skin comparing me to a born again christian.

And it is working, because it is so hard for me not to tear into you for your seemingly being utterly naive about the cyber technology that is out there today to track and collect online data, and process it all using data analysis and complex AI. Especially after Edward Snowden smuggled them the NSA programs in 2013, that coincidentally enough, immediately led to the Russians starting their attacks on democracies across the planet.

I am trying to not let you convince me you are just another foreign troll, but things like what you said in this post do make it difficult.
 
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abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Then you haven't paid attention man.

You are obviously now trying to get under my skin comparing me to a born again christian.

And it is working, because it is so hard for me not to tear into you for your seemingly being utterly naive about the cyber technology that is out there today to track and collect online data, and process it all using data analysis and complex AI. Especially after Edward Snowden smuggled them the NSA programs in 2013, that coincidentally enough, immediately led to the Russians starting their attacks on democracies across the planet.

I am trying to not let you convince me you are just another foreign troll, but things like what you said in this post do make it difficult.
Do Canadians even pay taxes in the US? I'm not sure, I guess they do, right? Maybe that's where the 30 trillion dollars will come from.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Do Canadians even pay taxes in the US? I'm not sure, I guess they do, right? Maybe that's where the 30 trillion dollars will come from.
We pay for our healthcare, but like to tease Americans about it being free! I won't have to pay the tax or suffer the consequences (I hope) of the next POTUS, pick who ya want, just don't put yer foot in yer own mouth before yer guy gets to the start line, whoever that might be, who I like is irrelevant, I'd like fucking Bloomberg if he'd beat Trump!

Congress will find the trillions whatever the bill will be, or it won't happen, besides there will be plenty of moderates and right wingers in the congress. Bernie trying to put the screws to wall street with Schumer running the senate will be amusing to watch in deed and if the senate is still in GOP hands nothing will happen except that Donald and his minions will be brought to justice by a new DOJ.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
so in other words, you're saying there's surely 30 trillion dollars lying around somewhere...
I'm saying if the cash ain't there it won't happen and ya don't need to pay for 10 years up front either! Every other developed country on the Goddamn planet uses single payer in one form or another, it works in those countries and the vast majority of the people are happy with it. America is the richest country on the planet, most folks can put two and two together, especially if they are on the shit end of the healthcare stick.

The pandemic hits America crashes the economy and is exacerbated by the incompetence of Trump, millions of jobs are being lost a month and the country is in a full blown healthcare crises because president numb nuts fired the chain of command to fight pandemics and never replaced them. Millions of Americans are being thrown off their insurance as unemployment increases, insurance premiums are skyrocketing because of mass hospitalizations and a pandemic is in full bloom. Some of the problems with the current situation and potential risks of not having a public system.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I'm saying if the cash ain't there it won't happen and ya don't need to pay for 10 years up front either!
3 trillion is still almost the entire federal budget revenue. Save the examples from other countries, those are other fucking countries. Pulling a near double on expenditures means pulling a near double on revenue or the deficit, which is already more than a third of the revenue itself.

A ten year plan requires ten year funding, so those kinds of tax hikes are for ten fucking years, at the least. Fuck that and fuck Bernie Sanders.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fuck that and fuck Bernie Sanders.
I can see the collective will have "re educate" you!

Just make sure you folks have enough health care and the right response to the looming pandemic and hope it runs outta steam before it gets here in strength. If it blows the economy at the same time "we" are gonna be in deep shit with Donald at the helm of a full blown crisis. We in Canada have a very porous border with America and any tragedy there would be replicated here, in spite of the best efforts both economically and medically.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
You already posted this on another thread.
It exemplifies the structural problems with the current American system and that has impacts on my country and even my health, I know I posted it on your virus thread, but health care seems to be a hot topic as is the pandemic.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I can see the collective will have "re educate" you!

Just make sure you folks have enough health care and the right response to the looming pandemic and hope it runs outta steam before it gets here in strength. If it blows the economy at the same time "we" are gonna be in deep shit with Donald at the helm of a full blown crisis. We in Canada have a very porous border with America and any tragedy there would be replicated here, in spite of the best efforts both economically and medically.
Stupid as fuck.

China is being absolutely ravaged by this thing and the overblown government response which is top-down authoritarian and characterized by complete lock-down and government restrictions has only made things worse. In fact, it is hard to imagine that any country could possibly respond worse than China has. Their social health system has been suddenly over-burdened, with people being herded into quarantine centers where they actually get sick, because they weren't already. The hospitals have dead people on the floors and the doctors are all sick.

The world has to quarantine China because they handled it so badly and pretty much ensured that it would become a pandemic.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member

"Intelligence officials and pundits have been screeching for years that patriotism demands voters reject the foreign agent Donald Trump and the Russian asset Bernie Sanders, and support a conventional establishment politician. Voters responded by moving toward Trump in national approval surveys and speeding Sanders to the top of the Democratic Party ticket. A more thorough disavowal of official propaganda would be difficult to imagine."
I love @Padawanbater2, he is the left's @Bugeye. All of his links show you the hack 'journalists' doing the work for the Russian's (see John Solomon) at legitimate companies.

This guy "Matt Taibbi" stories are flooded with Anti-Comey, Russians attacking our elections are a hoax, no new criminal filings after Mueller report, The Democrats are all stupid, and I stopped at 'Ukrainegate helps Biden'. Im sure this guy ..... google search, and I didn't even have to enter his wiki page to find it.....

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Right off the bat, the title is Russian disinformation 101, it's not Russia, it is our Leaders that are using the Russian military to attack our vulnerable citizens on a constant basis using all of our data in a weaponized matter to find out and feed us all exactly what we are most afraid of.

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Unfortunately he is correct.


Brad Parscale is attacking us all full force, as are Bernies online supporters and both of their staff. And Trump as our President is firing people for trying to warn Americans about how pervasive and persistent this attack has been on our democracy.

So I went on to start reading the article:

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Attacking the news for writing about what got exposed when Trump fired the Director of National Intelligence because he did his job and informed congress that the Russians are still attacking our country, to the benefit of Trump and Bernie, and nobody is doing anything to stop it. Which is a much better reason for why people who are being flooded with propaganda designed to stick them into a nice little bubble for their cult leader of choice to the benefit of the Russians.

It is so hard to read through this garbage....

Especially this part, which completely ignores that Bill Barr came in with his 4-page summary of disinformation and black markers to ensure that Mueller would have his hands tied, and every case into the President would be choked off, to the point that just recently a bunch of prosecutors quit in protest in Trump-Russia related crimes that they were found guilty of in a court of law by 12 American Jurors who got the full story.

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Look at the flash back of Carter Page too, who Trump's DOJ filed 2 FISA on (after Comey was gone) to cast shade on the fact that they were lawfully started under Obama, when it became obvious that Trump was working with the Russians.

And also conveniently ignored is this slip up on the Republicans in Mueller's hearing:

This sweet blog goes onto list all these things that have happened, many of which I know I can point to exactly where it is found that they were done being manipulated by the Russians: BLM was being used to discourage black voters, while firing up the ones who believed they were the problem (and missed the whole point was to ask cops to please stop shooting them), Brexit has a ton of evidence about Cambridge Analytica pushing for it, whose data and psychological data profiling programs were given to the Russians to use in other elections.

Then there are the things that he stretches into a lie, that nobody credible is saying. I didn't see in any reports that Jill Stein was running because of the Russians, only that they were amplifying her message at the expense of Clinton. He wrote the same with Gabbard too.

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It is a shame that people are able to continue these lies when evidence is put forth that easily disputes the message that they are trying to say, unless they say it with a misleading tweak, like Jill Stein was 'prompted' to run, when that is not what is being shown, they were using her as a voter suppression tactic to move votes away from the Democratic Presidential nominee.

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This tool goes on for several more pages that I am not going to bother going through it all. This is what we are facing in the upcoming election, this propaganda is overwhelming and getting into every legitimate news outlet from time to time for these trolls to use so they don't have to always link to their garbage that is obviously a Russian/Saudi/Chinese Cult/Domestic Trolling website that is trying to pass itself off as 'news'.

We need to wake up as a society to what is going on with this kind of propaganda.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
The division I see in America is being caused by rapid political change in response to a dire situation, Trump. The real roots of the issue are racial and the Trump voters are single issue and don't account for much in the debate about the real direction the country is headed in. The traditional debate among responsible citizens about right vs left is being fought out inside the democratic party. The fight between change and a change of direction and that of a return to "normal" times. People are feeling it most acutely in their pocketbooks and the related issue of healthcare, those with good healthcare plans are apprehensive about a public system and those without good plans or no plans favor some kind of public option, this too is another dividing line in American society. From a Canadian and the perspective of many other countries America went too far to the right ideologically in the 80's, 90s and 2000's and an adjustment is overdue, the pendulum is swinging from right to left it would appear, I hope it ends up somewhere near the center in the end.

It's early, but Bernie's prospects look good in the primaries and I hope better than expected in the general when matched up against Trump, who could make anybody look good in comparison. I would support the democratic nominee whoever they are and let congress worry about ideology, budgets and the details of health care. Not even Bernie will be sending mean tweets to congress because a democratic one would be independent of the POTUS and not his blackmailed slave, the democratic base is a much different animal than Trump's.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
The division I see in America is being caused by rapid political change in response to a dire situation, Trump. The real roots of the issue are racial and the Trump voters are single issue and don't account for much in the debate about the real direction the country is headed in. The traditional debate among responsible citizens about right vs left is being fought out inside the democratic party. The fight between change and a change of direction and that of a return to "normal" times. People are feeling it most acutely in their pocketbooks and the related issue of healthcare, those with good healthcare plans are apprehensive about a public system and those without good plans or no plans favor some kind of public option, this too is another dividing line in American society. From a Canadian and the perspective of many other countries America went too far to the right ideologically in the 80's, 90s and 2000's and an adjustment is overdue, the pendulum is swinging from right to left it would appear, I hope it ends up somewhere near the center in the end.

It's early, but Bernie's prospects look good in the primaries and I hope better than expected in the general when matched up against Trump, who could make anybody look good in comparison. I would support the democratic nominee whoever they are and let congress worry about ideology, budgets and the details of health care. Not even Bernie will be sending mean tweets to congress because a democratic one would be independent of the POTUS and not his blackmailed slave, the democratic base is a much different animal than Trump's.
How many people that voted for Trump in 2016 have you actually met and talked with? Or are you basing everything you are 'seeing' in TV talking heads and online conversations? Because unfortunately both of those sources tend to leave nuance and reasonable conversation in the dust.

The 'right vs left' conversation you are saying is taking place in the Democratic party is incorrect. You don't have anyone saying abortions should be illegal, schools should be pushing prayer, social saftey nets should be cut in favor of more weapons. What is going on in the Democratic party is Democratic values that are what have brought us all the very real forward movement from the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only dominated society to where we are today, and a Russian hyped dystopia veiw that the government is out to screw you over and only I can take it all back and give it to the people.

People are apprehensive because we are under attack by foreign militaries funding and perpetrating an online invasion of our democracy with pinpointed propaganda that is being coordinated to amplify their candidates of choice messages while drowning out their competition.

And the Russian/ChineseCult/Trump/Saudi/Etc trolls are hitting these stupid conversations from every direction politically. Don't be fooled.
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