I'm confused..is it genius or it would've never have happened?Can't but say good things about his friend.
Trump on Putin plan to recognize breakaway Ukraine regions: 'This is genius'
In an interview on "The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show," Trump said Russian President Vladimir Putin's recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics in eastern Ukraine on Monday was "smart" and "pretty savvy."
"I went in yesterday, and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius,'" he said. "Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful."
"I said, 'How smart is that?' He's going to go in and be a peacekeeper," added Trump, who regularly praised and sought close ties with Putin during his time in office. "That's the strongest peace force. We could use that on our southern border. That's the strongest peace force I've ever seen. There were more army tanks than I've ever seen. They're going to keep peace, all right."
Following his recognition of the two Donbas areas, which are controlled by Russian-backed separatists, Putin moved in troops, which led to international condemnation.
In his interview, Trump repeated his false claims that the 2020 election was stolen from him and said if he had remained president, Putin would never have attempted something like this.
"It never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable," Trump said. "You know what the response was from Biden? He didn't have a response."
The former president, who has been teasing a 2024 presidential run, also released a statement on Tuesday arguing that "there was absolutely no reason that the situation currently happening in Ukraine should have happened at all."
"Russia has become very very rich during the Biden Administration, with oil prices doubling and soon to be tripling and quadrupling," he said. "The weak sanctions are insignificant relative to taking over a country and a massive piece of strategically located land."
Trump on Putin plan to recognize breakaway Ukraine regions: ‘This is genius’
Former President Trump on Tuesday called Russia’s recognition of two breakaway territories in eastern Ukraine a “genius” move ahead of its military invasion.In an interview o…thehill.com
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Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
The rich Russian oligarch’s might start packing their bags up around now and fleeing to Miami or London where they have loads of property and investments . Putin is going to a very lonely man soon.I don't think this is about Ukraine. It's about enriching Putin and his cronies. For example, there are mining and aluminum processing operations that are inside Ukraine that Oleg Deripaska owns (link below). Much of those properties will be inside Russian borders or under Russian control depending on the outcome. Deripaska and others can gorge without that pesky Ukrainian government asserting the right to taxes and regulate the operations. Then again, Ukraine isn't a great free market economy either. See the article about the US farmer. They are a kleptocracy, not the same as Russian kleptocracy but it's still a country where the powerful take what they want and leave laws for the little people.
But this is mostly about Putin trying to crack the NATO alliance IMO. We aren't done with sanctions yet. The EU is going to take forever to act and no way to know what happens. Swiss banks are money launderers for those gangsters and make plenty of profits in exchange for washing money that should have stayed inside of Russia.
Deripaska and his business empire: security risks for Ukraine – The Ukrainian Weekly
In May 2018, the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine placed Russian billionaire and “aluminum magnate” Oleg Deripaska, who is close to Russian President Vladimir Putin, as well as three companies related to him (United Company RUSAL and its Moscow- and Cyprus-based branches, Judson...www.ukrweekly.com
As Russia tensions boil, US farmer remains jailed in Ukraine
WASHINGTON (AP) — When Kurt Groszhans set out from North Dakota for Ukraine in 2017, he...www.seattlepi.com
Trump interceded on Russia's behalf when Congress approved sanctions against Russia for their actions to interfere with the 2016 elections. Biden is really just using this crisis to do what we should have done in after the 2016 election. These are the targets of personal sanctions that Biden threatened Putin with and are about to implement.
Russia's oligarchs are different from other billionaires | CNN Politics
Oligarch. It sounds nefarious, to be sure.www.cnn.com
Putin's inner circle is going to get hit as well as Putin himself. What will it take for the knives to come out?
This is cold war politics. It's going to take a while before we see much in the way of change.
Too late we've frozen American accounts.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It's a criminal gang. Nobody just quits. They know too many secrets. Putin is riding the tiger. When it comes time to dismount, he's going to be in a world of hurt. That's one reason he extended his presidency another 15 or so years. The thing is, even if he manages to die in peace, his daughter will be left holding the bag.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Let's talk about a situation update on Ukraine....
printer
Well-Known Member
Rewriting History, Putin Pitches Russia as Defender of an Expanding Motherland
In an emotional and angry speech, the president justified his decision to recognize breakaway states in Eastern Ukraine as independent.
President Vladimir Putin pitched Moscow as a defender of its historical motherland on a crusade to protect Russians and Russian speakers from “genocide” as he justified the dramatic decision to recognize the independence of pro-Russian separatsts in Eastern Ukraine late on Monday.
In an hour-long emotional, and occasionally angry, address to the nation, Putin outlined his interpretation of Ukrainian history and what he sees as persecution of Russians in the Donbas, concluding that he was left with no choice but to recognize the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states.
“The West acts as if there are no horrors and no genocide, to which almost four million people are being subjected,” Putin said in the closing remarks of his address, speaking from behind a desk in his office.
“How long can this tragedy continue? How much longer can we stomach it?”
“They are fighting for their basic rights — to live on their own land, to speak their own language, to preserve their culture and traditions,” he added, in reference to the Donbas residents.
In Putin’s telling, that is a “culture and tradition” inherently Russian in nature, since he has repeatedly expressed skepticism toward the idea of a separate Ukrainian historical identity.
Putin also dedicated lengthy sections of his speech to undermining Ukraine’s sovereignty — describing Kyiv’s status as the capital of an independent sovereign country as little more than a gift from Moscow. The implication being that it is Moscow’s to potentially take back.
“Modern Ukraine was completely and wholly created by Russia,” Putin said Monday, before diving into a lengthy description of Vladimir Lenin’s decision to “create” Ukraine shortly after the Russian Revolution in 1917.
The speech drew heavily on patriotic and nationalistic language, with the formal recognition — ratified Tuesday by Russia’s parliament — coming a day before Russia’s annual “Defenders of the Fatherland” public holiday, a Soviet-era celebration of the country’s armed forces.
Eventually turning to the current standoff, he accused leaders in Kyiv of escalating the situation in the eastern part of Ukraine, saying they have “embarked on the path of violence, bloodshed, lawlessness, and they do not recognize any other solution to the Donbass issue, except a military one.”
The speech was the culmination of a years-long campaign by Putin to rewrite the history of the Russian-Ukrainian relationship, experts said.
Prior to Monday’s address, Putin’s most substantial thinking on the Ukraine issue had been outlined in a lengthy essay — “on the historical unity of Russians and Ukranians” — published last July.
Analysts saw a clear line between that essay and the content of Monday’s speech. But many fear the immediate act — recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk Peoples’ Republics — is far from the extent of Putin’s true ambitions. Instead, Putin placed the recognition of the republics in a much larger framework of a Russian maximalism, which might be unable to stop at the borders of the Donbas.
“This will affect not only Ukraine, but other ex-Soviet countries — starting with Belarus and Moldova and ending with Kazakhstan and the rest of Central Asia,” said political scientist Ilya Graschenkov.
“Recognizing the DPR and the LPR seems to be only a small episode in the much larger issue of restoring the Soviet Union — if not to its previous borders, at least in the format of a mini-U.S.S.R.”
Putin’s interpretation of Ukrainian history — a combination of cherry-picking facts, purposeful misinterpretation and conspiracy theories — has been dismissed by experts as a “dangerously distorted reading of the past.”
What Russians themselves think of Putin’s actions is still up for interpretation, analysts say. Independent polling shows the Donbas is not Crimea — the annexation of which was widely popular and provided a long-lasting boost to Putin’s approval ratings, even as the economy slumped and Russians became poorer.
“Putin is mistaken about the degree of potential support for the ‘Russian rescue operation’ in Ukraine, which will inevitably follow,” said political analyst Tatiana Stanovaya.
“He deeply overestimates the level of support that the Russian population will give him. There will be no protests … but he will not receive broad support either.”
Others see in recognition a half-fulfilled idea that will leave even Putin’s most ardent supporters dissatisfied.
“There will be about a quarter — maybe a third — of the country who still sincerely buy into the Kremlin's patriotic rhetoric. But one question will be a thorn in their hearts: ‘Why did we only recognize them, and not accept them into Russia?’ That feeling of half-heartedness will somewhat spoil this potential feast,” said political scientist Abbas Galyamov.
“The restoration of the Donbas will require trillions, not to mention the maintenance of peace there. With our stagnating economy, this will not be easy,” Graschenkov wrote in a Telegram post. “Given that the euphoria of another victory … will soon subside, and a pile of problems will rapidly catch up with us, the geopolitical success could become a source of discontent.”
His message to Zelenskiy at the end of his address is being seen as a chilling marker of what could follow.
“From those who have seized and are holding power in Kyiv, we demand an immediate cessation of hostilities,” Putin said, moments after announcing his plans to recognize the breakaway states.
“Otherwise, full responsibility for any more bloodshed will be entirely on the conscience of the regime in power on the territory of Ukraine.”
www.themoscowtimes.com
From another article,
"The impression arises that, regardless of who is to blame for the recent escalation, events in Donbas might unfold as they did in Georgia in 2008. Under this scenario, Moscow would recognize the independence of the self-proclaimed republics then send its troops into the region, thereby guaranteeing that the conflict in Donbas would last for years, if not decades to come.
The other option of evacuating the entire population of the DPR and LPR into neighboring regions of Russia and returning the now-depopulated territory of Donbas to Kyiv appears much less likely.
Apparently, by stepping directly into the conflict on the side of the self-proclaimed republics, Russia could intimidate Kyiv into refraining from any more armed clashes in Donbas. But this is about the only advantage of granting formal recognition to the self-proclaimed republics.
The inevitable negative consequences of such a move would be both numerous and varied."
In an emotional and angry speech, the president justified his decision to recognize breakaway states in Eastern Ukraine as independent.
President Vladimir Putin pitched Moscow as a defender of its historical motherland on a crusade to protect Russians and Russian speakers from “genocide” as he justified the dramatic decision to recognize the independence of pro-Russian separatsts in Eastern Ukraine late on Monday.
In an hour-long emotional, and occasionally angry, address to the nation, Putin outlined his interpretation of Ukrainian history and what he sees as persecution of Russians in the Donbas, concluding that he was left with no choice but to recognize the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states.
“The West acts as if there are no horrors and no genocide, to which almost four million people are being subjected,” Putin said in the closing remarks of his address, speaking from behind a desk in his office.
“How long can this tragedy continue? How much longer can we stomach it?”
“They are fighting for their basic rights — to live on their own land, to speak their own language, to preserve their culture and traditions,” he added, in reference to the Donbas residents.
In Putin’s telling, that is a “culture and tradition” inherently Russian in nature, since he has repeatedly expressed skepticism toward the idea of a separate Ukrainian historical identity.
Putin also dedicated lengthy sections of his speech to undermining Ukraine’s sovereignty — describing Kyiv’s status as the capital of an independent sovereign country as little more than a gift from Moscow. The implication being that it is Moscow’s to potentially take back.
“Modern Ukraine was completely and wholly created by Russia,” Putin said Monday, before diving into a lengthy description of Vladimir Lenin’s decision to “create” Ukraine shortly after the Russian Revolution in 1917.
The speech drew heavily on patriotic and nationalistic language, with the formal recognition — ratified Tuesday by Russia’s parliament — coming a day before Russia’s annual “Defenders of the Fatherland” public holiday, a Soviet-era celebration of the country’s armed forces.
Eventually turning to the current standoff, he accused leaders in Kyiv of escalating the situation in the eastern part of Ukraine, saying they have “embarked on the path of violence, bloodshed, lawlessness, and they do not recognize any other solution to the Donbass issue, except a military one.”
The speech was the culmination of a years-long campaign by Putin to rewrite the history of the Russian-Ukrainian relationship, experts said.
Prior to Monday’s address, Putin’s most substantial thinking on the Ukraine issue had been outlined in a lengthy essay — “on the historical unity of Russians and Ukranians” — published last July.
Analysts saw a clear line between that essay and the content of Monday’s speech. But many fear the immediate act — recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk Peoples’ Republics — is far from the extent of Putin’s true ambitions. Instead, Putin placed the recognition of the republics in a much larger framework of a Russian maximalism, which might be unable to stop at the borders of the Donbas.
“This will affect not only Ukraine, but other ex-Soviet countries — starting with Belarus and Moldova and ending with Kazakhstan and the rest of Central Asia,” said political scientist Ilya Graschenkov.
“Recognizing the DPR and the LPR seems to be only a small episode in the much larger issue of restoring the Soviet Union — if not to its previous borders, at least in the format of a mini-U.S.S.R.”
Putin’s interpretation of Ukrainian history — a combination of cherry-picking facts, purposeful misinterpretation and conspiracy theories — has been dismissed by experts as a “dangerously distorted reading of the past.”
What Russians themselves think of Putin’s actions is still up for interpretation, analysts say. Independent polling shows the Donbas is not Crimea — the annexation of which was widely popular and provided a long-lasting boost to Putin’s approval ratings, even as the economy slumped and Russians became poorer.
“Putin is mistaken about the degree of potential support for the ‘Russian rescue operation’ in Ukraine, which will inevitably follow,” said political analyst Tatiana Stanovaya.
“He deeply overestimates the level of support that the Russian population will give him. There will be no protests … but he will not receive broad support either.”
Others see in recognition a half-fulfilled idea that will leave even Putin’s most ardent supporters dissatisfied.
“There will be about a quarter — maybe a third — of the country who still sincerely buy into the Kremlin's patriotic rhetoric. But one question will be a thorn in their hearts: ‘Why did we only recognize them, and not accept them into Russia?’ That feeling of half-heartedness will somewhat spoil this potential feast,” said political scientist Abbas Galyamov.
“The restoration of the Donbas will require trillions, not to mention the maintenance of peace there. With our stagnating economy, this will not be easy,” Graschenkov wrote in a Telegram post. “Given that the euphoria of another victory … will soon subside, and a pile of problems will rapidly catch up with us, the geopolitical success could become a source of discontent.”
His message to Zelenskiy at the end of his address is being seen as a chilling marker of what could follow.
“From those who have seized and are holding power in Kyiv, we demand an immediate cessation of hostilities,” Putin said, moments after announcing his plans to recognize the breakaway states.
“Otherwise, full responsibility for any more bloodshed will be entirely on the conscience of the regime in power on the territory of Ukraine.”
Rewriting History, Putin Pitches Russia as Defender of an Expanding Motherland - The Moscow Times
President Vladimir Putin pitched Moscow as a defender of its historical motherland on a crusade to protect Russians and Russian speakers from “genocide” as he justified the dramatic decision to recognize the independence of pro-Russian separatsts in Eastern Ukraine late on Monday.
From another article,
"The impression arises that, regardless of who is to blame for the recent escalation, events in Donbas might unfold as they did in Georgia in 2008. Under this scenario, Moscow would recognize the independence of the self-proclaimed republics then send its troops into the region, thereby guaranteeing that the conflict in Donbas would last for years, if not decades to come.
The other option of evacuating the entire population of the DPR and LPR into neighboring regions of Russia and returning the now-depopulated territory of Donbas to Kyiv appears much less likely.
Apparently, by stepping directly into the conflict on the side of the self-proclaimed republics, Russia could intimidate Kyiv into refraining from any more armed clashes in Donbas. But this is about the only advantage of granting formal recognition to the self-proclaimed republics.
The inevitable negative consequences of such a move would be both numerous and varied."
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Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
Lol. Didnt his daughter sacrifice herself to the Sputnik vaccine..? Maybe the daughters can reinvent Russia turn it into something more loveable.
Crumpetlicker
Well-Known Member
I agree with Chomsky, America is the biggest terrorist state of them all.
It must also hurt that Xi and Putin are real statesmen and better than either side of politics in the US can muster at the moment.
It must also hurt that Xi and Putin are real statesmen and better than either side of politics in the US can muster at the moment.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Xi and Putin are autocrats, do you support autocrats?
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
when it seems like EVERYONE around you is stupid, and wrong...EVERYONE...then it's probably you that's wrong...
chances are that you are NOT the only one in the room that can see the truth...you're the only one that can't see it.
of course, if you're the only non magat in a room full of magats, then the reverse is probably true...
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Get up to speed: Russia faces sanctions for 'beginning' invasion | CNN Politics
Europe and the US announced tough new sanctions meant to isolate Russia from the Western banking system, cut off some of its natural gas market and punish Russian oligarchs who could have sway with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
wow, if you can call putin a statesman, you're too fucking stupid to even bother interacting with further...ignored for gross stupidity
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
it's a financial criminal gang, i'm not sure it's like the russian mafia anymore. a couple of articles i read, one i think you posted, describes several of them as business people who are forced to deal with the corrupt government to do business...i know that makes them criminals by extension, but the first generation of oligarchs were hardcore thugs compared to most of these guys. i wouldn't count on them to stand their ground if they see a way out...if things start to go south for putin, or if they see themselves coming under chinese control.
Crumpetlicker
Well-Known Member
I hear many terms new to my ears.
"Xi and Putin are autocrats, do you support autocrats?
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
I don't think it matters if I support Xi or Vlad, they are autocrats as you said.
Need I remind you that you just got done with a full-term president who wakes up every day, looks into the mirror and says "Me first"
This from an outsiders perspective would appear to be a small microcosm of the way America actually views itself.
A "Me First" mentality.
When other countries start behaving that way they are taken to task and the threat of war develops.
Non-Magat here. If I was any further left I would walk in circles. Not too sure too many Magats would be referencing Noam Chomsky. but anything is possible nowadays I suppose.
"Xi and Putin are autocrats, do you support autocrats?
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
I don't think it matters if I support Xi or Vlad, they are autocrats as you said.
Need I remind you that you just got done with a full-term president who wakes up every day, looks into the mirror and says "Me first"
This from an outsiders perspective would appear to be a small microcosm of the way America actually views itself.
A "Me First" mentality.
When other countries start behaving that way they are taken to task and the threat of war develops.
Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
Chomsky , what a joke. He is such an insecure old fuck. he had to go and get married again after his wife died in 2014. Now he is 93 and his wife is 58. Such an asshole.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I'm Canadian and the fault in America is more with the people than the government. Racism and tribalism fosters and enables bad government and Trump was the ultimate example of that! America is currently a liberal democracy, barely, but Russia and China are authoritarian states. If you think our politicians who are regularly elected are corrupt, wait till you see what they become if unelected.
Crumpetlicker
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your input.
Putin is a better diplomat than Trump. Absolutely.
Do you remember the soccer ball incident? Putin made Trump look like an imbecile.
And from him, we go to dithering Joe who can probably barely raise one by now.
Putin won their last election, he is their leading statesman. He has been doing it a long time.
As far as I am concerned I don't know the man, I don't think I would like him but I have been wrong about these things before.
I certainly don't agree with his politics but I reserve the right to consider him a good statesman.
At least he hasn't pissed off China, like some other diplomats have. lol.
If all that is 'fucking' stupid in your eyes, fair enough, but why all the aggression?
Have you not matured enough to control your emotions when talking about politics on the skyways?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Not hard to do when you bump off or imprison your opponents and have a corrupt vote counting system and minister of justice. Don't get me wrong though, Putin has his political base, it is much like Trump's base, a bunch of assholes.
Crumpetlicker
Well-Known Member
Do you really think it makes that much difference? Not so sure myself.
Maybe it is the best type of governance for those people, and who made you the judge of what is best for them?
Here is a little sample of what Putin has done for Russia post 2004.
"As a result of high oil prices, a rise in foreign investment, and prudent economic and fiscal policies, the Russian economy grew significantly; dramatically improving Russia's standard of living, and increasing its influence in global politics.[172] Putin's rule increased stability while transforming Russia into an authoritarian state"
Doesn't sound to bad to me, if I was Russian that is. We also need to realise they are starting from a really low base.
But seriously why waste all that money on an election when everything is hunky-dory in the barnyard so to speak?
Excepting of course his political enemies who do seem to rather disappear a bit more often than they should we can agree.
We are also forgetting that historically in Russia this is normal behavior.
Killing off your enemies makes good political sense so nobody says very much about it or else they might be next.
See smart thinking again......exactly what we expect from our statesmen.
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Crumpetlicker
Well-Known Member
Chomsky would eat you for breakfast, politically, friend.................