War

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printer

Well-Known Member
8 arrested in explosion on Kerch Bridge, Russia says
Russian authorities announced Wednesday that eight individuals were arrested for their alleged involvement in an explosion that destroyed part of the Kerch Bridge over the weekend.

Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) said in a statement it arrested five Russian citizens following Saturday’s incident and claimed it also arrested three Ukrainian and Armenian citizens.

The Russian agency outlined that authorities believe the 22-ton explosive was first moved by sea out of the Ukrainian port city of Odesa in August before traveling through multiple countries including Bulgaria, Georgia and Armenia.

Moscow has condemned the explosion as a “terrorist attack” and in its press release Wednesday the FSB accused Ukraine’s intelligence chief Kyrylo Budanov and his office of being behind the bombing. Ukrainian military officials dismissed the claims Wednesday.
“The entire activity of the FSB and the Investigative Committee is nonsense,” Defense Ministry spokesman Andriy Yusov told reporters, according to The Associated Press.

The explosion Saturday killed several people and caused two sections of the bridge to partially collapse. The bridge linked Russia and the Ukrainian Crimean Peninsula, with the bombing seen as a high-profile blow to Russian President Vladimir Putin.
In a statement, Putin denounced the attack, referring to it as an “act of terrorism.” In response, Russia conducted missile attacks on multiple Ukrainian cities, including the capital of Kyiv.

The FSB said Wednesday that its investigation into the incident remains ongoing, noting that the suspects involved in the bombing will be held accountable in accordance with Russian law.
thehill.com

8 arrested in explosion on Kerch Bridge, Russia says

Russian authorities announced Wednesday that eight individuals were arrested for their alleged involvement in an explosion that destroyed part of the Kerch Bridge over the weekend. Russia’s F…
thehill.com thehill.com
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
printer said:
8 arrested in explosion on Kerch Bridge, Russia says
Russian authorities announced Wednesday that eight individuals were arrested for their alleged involvement in an explosion that destroyed part of the Kerch Bridge over the weekend.

Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) said in a statement it arrested five Russian citizens following Saturday’s incident and claimed it also arrested three Ukrainian and Armenian citizens.

The Russian agency outlined that authorities believe the 22-ton explosive was first moved by sea out of the Ukrainian port city of Odesa in August before traveling through multiple countries including Bulgaria, Georgia and Armenia.

Moscow has condemned the explosion as a “terrorist attack” and in its press release Wednesday the FSB accused Ukraine’s intelligence chief Kyrylo Budanov and his office of being behind the bombing. Ukrainian military officials dismissed the claims Wednesday.
“The entire activity of the FSB and the Investigative Committee is nonsense,” Defense Ministry spokesman Andriy Yusov told reporters, according to The Associated Press.

The explosion Saturday killed several people and caused two sections of the bridge to partially collapse. The bridge linked Russia and the Ukrainian Crimean Peninsula, with the bombing seen as a high-profile blow to Russian President Vladimir Putin.
In a statement, Putin denounced the attack, referring to it as an “act of terrorism.” In response, Russia conducted missile attacks on multiple Ukrainian cities, including the capital of Kyiv.

The FSB said Wednesday that its investigation into the incident remains ongoing, noting that the suspects involved in the bombing will be held accountable in accordance with Russian law.
thehill.com

8 arrested in explosion on Kerch Bridge, Russia says

Russian authorities announced Wednesday that eight individuals were arrested for their alleged involvement in an explosion that destroyed part of the Kerch Bridge over the weekend. Russia’s F…
thehill.com thehill.com
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I still wanna know why video frame analysis showed the initial flash well above the frame.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
again “all true but not on point”.

Germany prospered (until it didn’t, largely due to the boss’s micromanagement). Then the Holocaust came to light.

China is prospering now, possibly because there is no one autocrat. They seem to take leadership by committe seriously. What does not get mentioned much is that the government killed more of its charges than Hitler and Stalin combined.

Russia under Stalin killed maybe thirty million. Now under Putin the autocratic model continues, but without the focusing effect of the invader at the gates of the great cities.

I mention the megadeaths as a repudiation of the idea of responsible government. It fits in with a trend I’ve sensed in some of your recent postings, a focus on success despite moral problems, generating a durable impression that the end justifies the means. That is where I say no.

*my original point
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This is not about morals, it's about power, speaking about morals in the context of these people is pointless. War is about projecting power and strong economies are good for that, in China's case good for the vast majority of the population, when they went capitalist 40 years before with a more liberal society in general. Many of the atrocities you speak of were done when countries were run by psychopaths like Hitler, Stalin, Mao and others. As for "responsible government" that comes from Adam Smith and its definition is up for grabs, but its results are not in doubt. Singapore has responsible government, not exactly a model liberal democracy by western standards, so do other prospering places in south Asia. I've defined liberal democracy and its institutions in modern terms here many times, since many Americans think the term liberal is a curse word. Liberal democracy is different from other forms of democracy or near democracies, theocracies, or fascist autocracies. China has responsible government in economic terms and uplifted the nation materially and even culturally through technology and a focus on education. They have their financial issues, but the place has been transformed in 40 years, after 40 years of Mao and mass murder. I'm no fan of the CCP, but I'll give them their due in terms of competence at governing, though they already rode on top of a tiger culture with a strong work and education ethic.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
This is not about morals, it's about power, speaking about morals in the context of these people is pointless. War is about projecting power and strong economies are good for that, in China's case good for the vast majority of the population, when they went capitalist 40 years before with a more liberal society in general. Many of the atrocities you speak of were done when countries were run by psychopaths like Hitler, Stalin, Mao and others. As for "responsible government" that comes from Adam Smith and its definition is up for grabs, but its results are not in doubt. Singapore has responsible government, not exactly a model liberal democracy by western standards, so do other prospering places in south Asia. I've defined liberal democracy and its institutions in modern terms here many times, since many Americans think the term liberal is a curse word. Liberal democracy is different from other forms of democracy or near democracies, theocracies, or fascist autocracies. China has responsible government in economic terms and uplifted the nation materially and even culturally through technology and a focus on education. They have their financial issues, but the place has been transformed in 40 years, after 40 years of Mao and mass murder. I'm no fan of the CCP, but I'll give them their due in terms of competence at governing, though they already rode on top of a tiger culture with a strong work and education ethic.
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In the context of the people watching those people however,
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Lucky Luke said:
Funny that Hussein and Bin Laden didn't make trial, let alone a public one.
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umm Hussein stood trial by his piers, 1 sunni, 1 shia, and 1 kurd, and convicted.....the hanging was on TV. Bin Laden, was pretty much done for by the international community via the intellence services, and then 2 taps in head in Pakistan (of which pakistan said he wasn't there at all), Gadaffi, was round up by his own people and then shot by one on camera......
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I don’t think Vladolf’s crew is incompetent. They suffer the same problems as the original.

(edit) at the risk of using broad strokes, the rational/irrational blend she describes has been a feature of that nation’s foreign policy since before Napoleon.
Call it Russional.
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I think similar to you. It's a hangover from the monarchy that Stalin carried forward. It's absolutist authoritarian thinking in the purest form. When an entire government hinges on one person, that person's image IS the nation.

From outside of the ruler's estate, one can see that Putin has made a huge mistake in judgement. Pursuing the war will only end in the failure of the Russian state. From the insider's view, admitting that the primary leader of Russia made a mistake is a failure of the Russian state. Within context, both are rational views.

Cognitive dissonance is giving me a headache. I'm going to get another cup of coffee.

I need to revisit Russian history toward the end of the Romanov monarchy. But not right now.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Fogdog said:
I think similar to you. It's a hangover from the monarchy that Stalin carried forward. It's absolutist authoritarian thinking in the purest form. When an entire government hinges on one person, that person's image IS the nation.

From outside of the ruler's estate, one can see that Putin has made a huge mistake in judgement. Pursuing the war will only end in the failure of the Russian state. From the insider's view, admitting that the primary leader of Russia made a mistake is a failure of the Russian state. Within context, both are rational views.

Cognitive dissonance is giving me a headache. I'm going to get another cup of coffee.

I need to revisit Russian history toward the end of the Romanov monarchy. But not right now.
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I think Putin painted himself and his de facto cabinet into a corner, and is finding the realistic choices intolerable. It does suggest a “nothing to lose” mentality that could drive for his building the team he needs to use the big one.

at which point it will be plain that “nothing to lose” was not the rock bottom it feels like to him at present, no matter how others respond to the event.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I’m saying that the extranational perception counts.
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Now more than ever, the pentagon realized this decades ago and changed how they fought modern wars with modern weapons that reduce collateral damage. Countries need allies in an economically and technologically interdependent world, the experience of Russia proves this too. World opinion counts, both of the leaders and populations, after the atrocities in Ukraine were revealed, the aid poured in with public outrage and support.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

CNN military analyst on why Zelensky won’t get the 'air shields' he wants

28,604 views Oct 12, 2022 Following one of Russia’s fiercest bombing campaigns in Ukraine since the start of the war, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky asks in a G7 meeting for an “air shield” against further aerial attacks. CNN's Military Analyst Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling joins Bianna Golodryga to explain why he won’t get that.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
PJ Diaz said:
It seems as though the blast came from a boat below the bridge, so perhaps the flash at the top of the frame is a reflection off the water.

Also you are off of ignore.
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Thank you. That removes my constraint to address your posts, which I was not going to do behind your back. In your face is fair game.

Fwiw I found myself agreeing with what you posted here yesterday in re the ethics of civilians and war.

The flash I saw suggests a spherical fireball just entering the frame from above. Even more speculative, the apparent softness of the shock wave suggests fuel-air. I don’t know. I imagine more data will be published in time.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
It seems as though the blast came from a boat below the bridge, so perhaps the flash at the top of the frame is a reflection off the water.

Also you are off of ignore.
Click to expand...
A large missile could have also penetrated the bridge deck and detonated beneath it. This logical, since it would confine the blast between the water and the deck, heaving it upward. A slight delay would be all it would take, and it would do more damage going off under a low span close to the water, as it did. I've seen reliable reports it was a missile, but a truck bomb could have done it too, we await more conclusive evidence of either. But a missile going off under the span should not have caught the train cars on fire, they would have been protected by the inner roadway, which appeared to have no damage underneath. I'm still favoring the Truck hypotheses, but we will see.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
A large missile could have also penetrated the bridge deck and detonated beneath it. This logical, since it would confine the blast between the water and the deck, heaving it upward. A slight delay would be all it would take, and it would do more damage going off under a low span close to the water, as it did. I've seen reliable reports it was a missile, but a truck bomb could have done it too, we await more conclusive evidence of either. But a missile going off under the span should not have caught the train cars on fire, they would have been protected by the inner roadway, which appeared to have no damage underneath. I'm still favoring the Truck hypotheses, but we will see.
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I’m gonna go onto a long, thin limb; the suckback of a thermobaric airburst could also pull the span up.
 
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