War

printer

printer

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
Then what is? If we do anything to foment trouble, we could justifiably be accused of setting the russian government up for a fall.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with that, but when we've done such things in the past, it has not helped how the rest of the world perceives us...
Would upsetting the russian tea cart be worth the loss of trust, the lowering of opinions, the justification of earlier accusations?
I don't know. I'd kick that fucking cart over and mop up the mess later, but i don't get to make that call.
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If what happens in Russia stays in Russia then I say let them figure their own way forward. But since that is not the case we need to contain them.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
Then what is? If we do anything to foment trouble, we could justifiably be accused of setting the russian government up for a fall.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with that, but when we've done such things in the past, it has not helped how the rest of the world perceives us...
Would upsetting the russian tea cart be worth the loss of trust, the lowering of opinions, the justification of earlier accusations?
I don't know. I'd kick that fucking cart over and mop up the mess later, but i don't get to make that call.
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I don’t know. I fail at figuring out domestic politics in any predictive manner, so (sad shrug).
 
C

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I get what you are saying about Russians deserving what they are getting from Putin.

It's Sunday and I'm still trying to process a post Budman made on Thursday. This passage in particular:

"to have no Hague tribunals, openings of criminal proceedings, compensations, reparations. So that nothing of that sort happens. We need such an activization of combat. We have to pressure them so hard. So that they turn to us for a ceasefire or establishing peace."

She was also selling the idea that everybody, including the people who fled Russia to get away from Putin and his war, would be arrested and charged for crimes committed in Ukraine.



That woman flat out said in that broadcast:

More of your sons will be sent to Ukraine to fight and perhaps die in horrible conditions so that you don't have to face the consequences of your dictator's crimes.

I am boggled at the idea that the general population of Russia would be willing to send their friends, sons, husbands and fathers to fight and die for such a crappy reason.

From the beginning of this thread almost a year ago all the way to today, I simply don't understand why this happened or continues to happen. I know that Russia is and always has been afflicted with a vicious police state. One that has incarcerated as many as 25% of their population in gulags with horrible conditions. I know that the Russian police state still has those camps available to hold anybody who protests. I know that their absolutist authoritarian leader is a sociopath of the worst kind who would not hesitate to marshal his forces against the people of Russia. But knowing that doesn't help me understand why the Russian people aren't rising up to stop it.
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Best quote in DR. Strangelove "Gentleman you can't fight in here,this is the war room" LOL
 
C

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
me neither.
i can only guess that if you're brought up in such a state your entire life, you don't know any different.
the intrusion of western society, through the internet, through business travel, citizens witnessing how the rest of the world lives, must be causing some pretty major unrest.
they seem to be under a huge amount of tension at the moment. if they don't take any action now, they never will. if they have any spirit, any honor, any soul left at all, this is the time.
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I'm also hoping for a Russian uprising of some kind,it's the only scenario I can ascertain in which Russia can somehow save face for this absolute barbarian folly Putin has unleashed,I honestly believe most average Russians don't want this and have a genuine kinship with Ukranians.I have way more questions than answers,How does this end?,Will their be honest tribunals regarding war criminals,How will reparations to Ukraine be accomplished? ,What kind of geo-political situation develops in the aftermath of hostilities?,Who leads post war Russia if Putin goes and if not how can he ever be dealt with w/the reputation he now has? and on and on,hard questions even harder answers.
 
C

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
When your opponent no longer exists & you're still standing. There is no more U.S.S.R. most people consider that a win....
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I'd say we won a technical victory,much national treasure was squandered,if half that money went to social and infrastructure programs we'd be in a better place today.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
CCGNZ said:
I'm also hoping for a Russian uprising of some kind,it's the only scenario I can ascertain in which Russia can somehow save face for this absolute barbarian folly Putin has unleashed,I honestly believe most average Russians don't want this and have a genuine kinship with Ukranians.I have way more questions than answers,How does this end?,Will their be honest tribunals regarding war criminals,How will reparations to Ukraine be accomplished? ,What kind of geo-political situation develops in the aftermath of hostilities?,Who leads post war Russia if Putin goes and if not how can he ever be dealt with w/the reputation he now has? and on and on,hard questions even harder answers.
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There might be some folks cooling their heels in a cell right now that would be well positioned to pull a Mandela of the north.

 
C

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
There might be some folks cooling their heels in a cell right now that would be well positioned to pull a Mandela of the north.

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I'd love to see a Russia led by Navatny,hope it's not a pipe dream,a man who genuinely would strive to improve life for all Russians and send the bear into the West leaving China all alone on the UN Security Council.Please don't wake me up.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I know that Russia is and always has been afflicted with a vicious police state. One that has incarcerated as many as 25% of their population in gulags with horrible conditions. I know that the Russian police state still has those camps available to hold anybody who protests. I know that their absolutist authoritarian leader is a sociopath of the worst kind who would not hesitate to marshal his forces against the people of Russia. But knowing that doesn't help me understand why the Russian people aren't rising up to stop it.
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When I was a kid the biggest heroes were not fictional characters but members of the resistance in WW2. Monuments everywhere, plenty of good movies. Literally every boy and young men made at least once in their life the claim “I would have joined the resistance!”. Older people, like my grandparents who lived through the war and occupation, were always quick to explain the reality was not that simple. Older black Americans probably understand too. Keeping your head down is a better life than your family members getting raped and massacred or starve to death. Russians would resist a sudden switch from what Ukrainians had to Putin’s ways too. Same people, different circumstances.

When I read Russian people should rise up I imagine actual Russians I’ve interacted with over the past decades should risk their lives to rise up against Putin and it just paints an absurd image in my head. Kinda like you storming the capitol. The ones crazy enough to do that with force would be the type of Russian that doesn’t oppose Putin. Why do the ones who‘d rather not have him as head of state, would rather have our lives and birthplace, have the responsibility to rise up and risk everything they have and everyone they love. I’d prefer they keep themselves safe, gtfo of Russia if possible. Election results in Russia mean as little as the referendums they held in Ukraine, no Russian citizen voted for this war in safe and fair elections. Does being a citizen of a country make you responsible for the actions of your mad king? The way I see it, “the Russian people” is a very broad brush that paints an entity that doesn’t even really exist. There’s Russians, and there’s Russians.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
One gun two substations so far. What if the "idea" catches on? America could be in the dark pretty quick. Let's say anti gun activists wanted to make a "statement" and decided to have a campaign in those states with no gun laws? It might come down to your 2nd amendment rights or your lights! Technology empowers the individual or small groups of them and connects them and guns can kill power grids too, not just people, who needs a missile?

Freedom means freedom to freeze in the dark too. Texas has a vulnerable power grid and liberal gun laws a .50 cal sniper rifle isn't hard to get at a gun show and neither is a silencer. Though normal calibers should work just fine on big distribution transformers too, they don't need to be very close either. Maybe not a leftwing anti-gun group, but a future rightwing domestic terrorist group, discontented that Texas went blue or for some other "cause".


State of Emergency declared in Moore County after power substations hit with gunfire

299,514 views Dec 4, 2022
A State of Emergency is in effect in Moore County after a massive power outage caused by damage to substations by firearms.
 
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