War

doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
CCGNZ said:
You raise good counterpoints as always,these were my thoughts,not hopes in a 360% analysis of a complex,dangerous situation that just gets more opaque w/the Chinese starting to engage.A shooting war w/a nuclear state involved w/a increasingly desparate tyrant in charge vs. a country backed by 3 nuclear states w/a shady nuclear state possibly backing the nuclear state participating in the war. I certainly am apalled by Russia's conduct and primitive actions (is this 1923 or 2023) but the Russians are looking at Crimea as a matter of national survival so they are probably all in,no doubt they are paranoid w/their past history and can't "get it" that the West has no and never had the intention to invade Russia. And reciprocating the Russian use of nukes doesn't make me sleep any better, in their sick way of thinking it seems to me like they see doomsday as a acceptable end for them.Putin could be bluffing but this isn't poker and it won't be money lost if we're wrong,on top of all that I watched a CNN reporter in Crimea this morn. and all the people he talked to were pro Russian and they weren't at gunpoint. If Russia can be soundly defeated and all territory returned to Ukraine w/out Russia going doomsday sign me up,I just don't see them going down that way w/all the dark existential rhetoric coming from Moscow,I'll be more than happy to admit I was wrong when the time comes,hell I hope I'm wrong now.
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Russia has had 8 years to move out all the native pro Ukraine citizens of Crimea and made it a national policy to move pro russians into occupied Crimea. Seizing land and displacing it's occupants and replacing it with your own for 8 years is no indication of ownership. So it's ok If i kick my neighbors out of their home next door and move my friends in and then we ask the occupants if they want to move out or just claim ownership themselves? Russia won't stop with Ukraine.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
EmeraldØsiris said:
Oh, please let me remind you. War is the answer.
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In some cases, it is apparently the only answer, that's why we have armies, because psychos and assholes often grab power, it almost happened in America with Trump and the morons who voted for him. It is kinda apparent in Ukraine at the moment that this tends to be true in the modern world at least. In the end it is about enforcing international law and when you enforce any law it can get ugly. Those countries who live by the rule of law are enforcing international law, it's really that simple. War is always bad and to be avoided where possible, but when not possible it needs to be embraced.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
Russia has had 8 years to move out all the native pro Ukraine citizens of Crimea and made it a national policy to move in pro russians into occupied Crimea. Seizing land and displacing it's occupants and replacing it with your own for 9 years is no indication of ownership. So it's ok If i kick my neighbors out of their home next door and move my friends in and then we ask the occupants if they want to move out or just claim ownership themselves? Russia won't stop with Ukraine.
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What happened to the empire loyalists after the revolution in America? Those who refused to swear allegiance. I'll tell you where they ended up, HERE, in Canada! :lol:
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
CCGNZ said:
Can't take issue w/any of that,sure makes 2014 look bad,and the Europeans are also involved in the 90's nuke deal think,it must be a vague agreement as it sure didn't make Ukraine a Nato member,it's been 20+ yrs. and they weren't even sniffing it pre-invasion. It's all dark and exactly what the world didn't need on the heels of a pandemic and it's all a guessing game in terms of the length of western support 1more yr.,2yrs? It's already exposed the limits of arms mfg, and stores.,hope Ukraine really gets a move on this spring/summer.
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Ukraine was being run by a Russian controlled gov't since that agreement until Zelensky came along and he's been busy digging out the corrupt people that people like right-wingnuts keep claiming still run the place.

All supporting countries should put themselves on a war footing and crank up defence manufacturing as if the Russians were bombing their countries as they probably will unless stopped for good this time.

After WWII the allies had a plan to go into Russia while it was weak and clean up that mess but decided against it. Hindsight is 20/20 and I bet there's been a lot of regrets since. Could have made the west look as bad as the Nazis so most likely why it wasn't done.

:peace:
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
Ukraine was being run by a Russian controlled gov't since that agreement until Zelensky came along and he's been busy digging out the corrupt people that people like right-wingnuts keep claiming still run the place.

All supporting countries should put themselves on a war footing and crank up defence manufacturing as if the Russians were bombing their countries as they probably will unless stopped for good this time.

After WWII the allies had a plan to go into Russia while it was weak and clean up that mess but decided against it. Hindsight is 20/20 and I bet there's been a lot of regrets since. Could have made the west look as bad as the Nazis so most likely why it wasn't done.

:peace:
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It would have been a bad time to go up against the red army at the peak of their strength and Stalin at the peak of his power, with Europe in tatters at their backs, then Stalin got nukes and it was off the table. War with Russia would have been unpopular after 5 years of building them up as faithful allies, it took a while to get the cold war going and it started here in Canada with a spy story and a defector. Public opinion develops inertia and momentum and can't be changed overnight, attitudes towards Japan and Germany took a generation to die after the war. If there is a coming war with China, Vietnam will be America's ally most likely, and they will probably be a good one!
 
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