Not a right

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, you're right. I forgot. We DON'T have a democracy in America. Stupid me! We have a strict republic.

We strictly obey a piece of paper. It's never been amended by majority vote. It's never been changed by majority vote. Women still cannot vote. Stupid me.....I forgot.

And I too have a copy of the Constitution right here in front of me. It contains a great introduction by Caroline Kennedy (oh wait, she's a democrat, so she cannot be trusted as a source, right?) and an afterward by David Eisenhower, explaining complexities that are apparently ignored by you. So let's debate the Constitution - please. It's one of my favorite topics. I foresaw this debate taking place on campus a lot this year, so I brushed up a bit this past summer.
Amendments become part of the constitution. No dispute.
Stupid me!
I won't dispute that either.

I never wrote that the U.S. is not currently a democracy, Professor. I am well aware of what the U.S. has descended into since 1787.

I simply asked you to show me where the word is mentioned in the Constitution. I would have accepted 'majority rules.' After all, you stated it was 'quite clear.' Hell, I would have accepted 'mob rule' if you could show it to me.

Although your diatribe was humorous and quite charming, you never answered my question. Where is the word 'democracy' listed?

You have your copy as you stated previously.

Is it in there? Yes or No.

Rhetoric, Huh?

There's no tenure here, by the way.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
The founding fathers knew that a true democracy would never get very far. One of the reasons why paying attention and adhering to the Constitution is our only way for true and lasting prosperity.
 

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
The founding fathers knew that a true democracy would never get very far. One of the reasons why paying attention and adhering to the Constitution is our only way for true and lasting prosperity.
Do you know what Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson thought of the beloved Constitution? Do you also comprehend what a strict adherence to the original constitution would entail? I don't think you do.

This document MUST be amended and HAS been amended to fit the ever-shifting paradigms as time progressed. It's in NO way a static document - rather, it's in a state of flux. The people who take umbrage under this document ultimately dictate it - a simple ontological fact. It has changed and will forever change. No ideology or amount of will can stop this force. Savvy?

Johnny: you may very well be right - the whole constitution may not possess a single mention of the word democracy, but representational government is made CLEAR all throughout. We can engage in a discussion of semantics, but I think we all understand the point I'm making. In this country, majority rules. And unfortunately, might is sometimes right, according to American history. In the eternal words of Jim Morrison, 'they got the guns, but......we got the numbers!"
 

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
Amendments become part of the constitution. No dispute.

I won't dispute that either.

I never wrote that the U.S. is not currently a democracy, Professor. I am well aware of what the U.S. has descended into since 1787.

I simply asked you to show me where the word is mentioned in the Constitution. I would have accepted 'majority rules.' After all, you stated it was 'quite clear.' Hell, I would have accepted 'mob rule' if you could show it to me.

Although your diatribe was humorous and quite charming, you never answered my question. Where is the word 'democracy' listed?

You have your copy as you stated previously.

Is it in there? Yes or No.

Rhetoric, Huh?

There's no tenure here, by the way.
Please refrain from bolding words - I'm fully capable of comprehending common emphasis structures in english syntax. If written properly, writing as you write is completely redundant - insinuating at best.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
If healthcare were a "right" it would run contrary to the other rights which are unalienable and "god given" .
Government cannot provide rights, they are supposed to protect individual rights.
In order to implement the supposed right of mandatory healthcare one must impose on anothers right not to participate.

People have a right to form groups and collectively model programs for their healthcare. People and government have no right to insist others belong to their collective. Any legislation that ignores this undermines the concept of freedom.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
It goes against the grain of the Constitution....period. The constitution can be expanded but not altered in principle. The left has never been satisfied with this, and wishes to experiment. Well, the govt. has burnt down every lab so far experimenting (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Post Office). Now they want to have one more HUGE lab to play with....no dice. Not on my dime.

The govt. produces NOTHING except a drag on the economy...the more govt., the bigger the drag.

This is not complicated stuff ppl......
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Do you know what Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson thought of the beloved Constitution? Do you also comprehend what a strict adherence to the original constitution would entail? I don't think you do.

This document MUST be amended and HAS been amended to fit the ever-shifting paradigms as time progressed. It's in NO way a static document - rather, it's in a state of flux. The people who take umbrage under this document ultimately dictate it - a simple ontological fact. It has changed and will forever change. No ideology or amount of will can stop this force. Savvy?

Johnny: you may very well be right - the whole constitution may not possess a single mention of the word democracy, but representational government is made CLEAR all throughout. We can engage in a discussion of semantics, but I think we all understand the point I'm making. In this country, majority rules. And unfortunately, might is sometimes right, according to American history. In the eternal words of Jim Morrison, 'they got the guns, but......we got the numbers!"
No 'very well may be' to it. I am correct.

We may disagree, but I believe the Constitution was specifically crafted to protect the rights of the individual from government. If the mob controls government, the Constitution is the buffer between the rights of the individual and the fickle nature of mob rule. The framers knew this, too; which is why they did not include the "D" word anywhere on the document.

And you are quite correct about the current state of affairs in the U.S. The Constitution has been ignored, bloodied, and bruised; especially over the previous century. Special mention in this category goes to Woodrow Wilson, but most especially to Fascist Dictator Roosevelt.

Consider for a moment why there are only twenty-seven amendments. Why is that? Because it should be difficult to amend the Constitution.

The amendment process prevents the Constitution from becoming an 'antiquated document.'

Were there portions of the Constitution which deserved amending? Without question.

Do there exist current portions of the document which merit amending due to these ever-shifting paradigms? Time will tell.
Please refrain from bolding words - I'm fully capable of comprehending common emphasis structures in english syntax. If written properly, writing as you write is completely redundant - insinuating at best.
Thanks for the critique. As it was free, I will take it for what it's worth.

To put a finer point on it: These are my posts, not yours. I'll do it my way, not yours.

Know your audience.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
No 'very well may be' to it. I am correct.

We may disagree, but I believe the Constitution was specifically crafted to protect the rights of the individual from government. If the mob controls government, the Constitution is the buffer between the rights of the individual and the fickle nature of mob rule. The framers knew this, too; which is why they did not include the "D" word anywhere on the document.

And you are quite correct about the current state of affairs in the U.S. The Constitution has been ignored, bloodied, and bruised; especially over the previous century. Special mention in this category goes to Woodrow Wilson, but most especially to Fascist Dictator Roosevelt.

What makes you think I have never heard of amending the Constitution? Consider for a moment why there are only twenty-seven amendments. Why is that? Because it should be difficult to amend the Constitution.

The amendment process prevents the constitution from becoming an 'antiquated document.'

Were there portions of the Constitution which deserved amending? Without question.

Do there exist current portions of the document which merit amending due to these ever-shifting paradigms? Time will tell.

Thanks for the critique. As it was free, I will take it for what it's worth.

To put a finer point on it: These are my posts, not yours. I'll do it my way, not yours.

Know your audience.
Nice explanation. :clap:
 

CrackerJax

New Member
yes, the only thing left to point out is this quiz question.....

What do you call a political system where the Govt. is joined to corporate power?
 

Woomeister

Well-Known Member
CJ I just cant wait till you get 'socialised health care'...you will love it!!! lmao. Its coming, be sure of that...Isnt that what you normally say. Your are a soothsayer after all...
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Actually I have no worries...because just like Congress...I will be exempt :wink: As with all things Liberal....in the end, the poor suffer with all those good intentions.
 

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
Actually I have no worries...because just like Congress...I will be exempt :wink: As with all things Liberal....in the end, the poor suffer with all those good intentions.
but now when then poor suffer they'll have access to healthcare and get all kinds of meds to make them happy. that's what the rich do, right? I demand equal access to prozac.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
The Republican Party.
Not quite....


Either way, Obama is steering us all into bankruptcy. If the agenda is not stopped AND reversed, it may not be repairable. The debt being racked up now is going to suffocate any possibility of future prosperity....on a permanent basis. You don't get to take a break from being a first rate nation and then pick it up again. Once that fire goes out and the numbers become rock hard, that's it.
 

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
Not quite....


Either way, Obama is steering us all into bankruptcy. If the agenda is not stopped AND reversed, it may not be repairable. The debt being racked up now is going to suffocate any possibility of future prosperity....on a permanent basis. You don't get to take a break from being a first rate nation and then pick it up again. Once that fire goes out and the numbers become rock hard, that's it.
You really do worship numbers, don't you?
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Not quite....


Either way, Obama is steering us all into bankruptcy. If the agenda is not stopped AND reversed, it may not be repairable. The debt being racked up now is going to suffocate any possibility of future prosperity....on a permanent basis. You don't get to take a break from being a first rate nation and then pick it up again. Once that fire goes out and the numbers become rock hard, that's it.
President Obama is only trying to correct the mistakes of the Bush years..Did not Bush have a surplus when he came in office and left a huge deficient on his leaving office..Bush steered this country into a mess. President Obama is trying to guide it back...but we know you a Bush fan
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Numbers pay the bills and keep the lights on. Numbers decide whether we live a good life or a poor life.

The latest numbers now ALL point to a poor life ahead. Yes, I worship numbers....they are a truth which can be denied, but not ignored. Obama is going to find all this out...or he is planning on it.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Numbers pay the bills and keep the lights on. Numbers decide whether we live a good life or a poor life.

The latest numbers now ALL point to a poor life ahead. Yes, I worship numbers....they are a truth which can be denied, but not ignored. Obama is going to find all this out...or he is planning on it.
Great well here is a number that Your hero Bush left

National Debt Increase: $4.9 trillion.
U.S. Military Deaths In Iraq: 4,228
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
oh what the hay...Heres more numbers for you Cracker

100 Fund raisers attended by Bush or Cheney in 2003
23 Median age of U.S casualties in Iraq in april 2004
152 People executed in Texas when Bush was governor
$127 billion U.S budget surplus in 2001
$374 billion U.S budget deficit in the fiscal year 2003
43.6 million Number of U.S. citizens without health insurance
0 Number of WMD found in Iraq
233 Days Bush was president pre 9/11
$6 billion Dollars offered to Turkey for support in the Iraq war
250 Days Bush was at Camp David, in Crawford or Kennebunkport in his first 15 months in Office
42% of his time Bush was at Camp David, in Crawford or Kennebunkport in his first 15 months in Office
13 Average yearly vacation days recieved by Americans
26 Average yearly vacation time across the European Union
543 895 Number of votes Gore won the 2000 election with nationwide
50 999 897 Votes for A Gore in 2000
50 456 002 Votes for Bush in 2000
2 882 955 Votes for Ralph Nader in 2000
543 Number of votes with which Bush beat Gore in Florida
4 Dick Cheney's heart attacks
$700 000 Total Enron contributions to "Bush 2000"
$34 000 000 Withdrawn from the United Nations Population Fund
10 Number of times Dick Cheney opposed imposing economic sanctions on South Africa in the 1980s
$444 billionU.S budget deficit in the fiscal year 2004
$282 910 Kenneth Lay's contributions to the RNC 1999-2001
 
Top