here we go with the jew hating

[RickWhite]

Rick...in your book, is there anything someone can legitimately criticize Israel for without being an anti-Semite? The policy with regard to the settlers, the disproportionate response to hamas and their toy rockets and turning gaza into an open air prison are all things I have serious reservations about. Even if it's the Palestinians who create a lot of the problems that have turned the peace process upside down, the crazy israeli right-wingers are just as big of an obstacle to peace. Sharon was the only with the gravitas and the testicles to confront them and I'm afraid that unless he wakes from his coma or someone else picks up where he left off, there really isn't going to be much progress....

It is interesting that you ask if there anything someone can legitimately criticize Israel for without being an anti-Semite and then follow it up with anti-Semitic hyperbole. How exactly am I supposed to respond? Case in point - the term "settlers" is a weasel word that is designed to undermine their credibility. The word implies that they are there temporarily and without justification. What if we just said, "those building apartments in the West Bank" instead? The truth doesn't have quite the same impact does it?

And what about the "disproportionate response." That is another deceitful term. The Palestinians for years have indiscriminately launched very real and very dangerous rockets into civilian neighborhoods. Fortunately, they can not reach densely populated areas where they would be much more dangerous. What about the suicide bombers that wear bombs filled with nails in order to increase carnage that walk into places where young people congregate and blow themselves up? If the people from the neighboring city sent these guys to a mall where your 13 year old daughter was and sent nails flying in her face, what would your response be?

The Palestinians live in slums, not in "open air prisons." They live there due to their own choices. We have given them enough money so that they could all be living in luxury apartments and driving exotic sports cars. The money has been diverted into the pockets of their Arab leaders and toward arms purchases. Look at Gaza. Gaza was a beautiful piece of land with luxury ocean side homes. Israel gave it to the Arabs unilaterally and they made no effort to develop it choosing instead to use it as a base from which to launch more rockets. Gaza, which you call and "open air prison" proves more than anything that the Arabs don't want peace and any rational person can see this. The fact that you choose to see something that is the polar opposite of reality hardly suggests that you are being objective.

The Palestinians are in the position they are in because their Arab leaders have chosen to use them as canon fodder and they are so blinded by their hatred that they can't figure it out.

Now, if you were to ask if the Israelis should consider not building new apartments so close to the Palestinian neighborhoods knowing it might bring more violence, I would agree that this is something they should be thinking about. However, this raises a lot of questions.

In the end, we have a situation in which one group of people just wants to live a peaceful existence and the other group wishes to destroy them. It really is as simple as that and the evidence of this is overwhelming.

 

[abe23]

Ok then.....I guess the answer is no. Anti-semitic hyperbole, huh? How convenient....

I'm not talking about people building apartments in east jerusalem. I'm talking about the people who like to lynch arabs in hebron, for example...
A disproportionate response would be invading gaza because of the toy rockets landing in sderot. When was the last suicide bombing against a civilian target in israel? I'm not talking about that....
And I'm talking specifically about gaza when i say open air prison. There is no way for people or any supplies to get in other than through the smuggling tunnels. I do think it's a huge humanitarian problem, hamas or not.

How is any of that anti-semitic? I have family in israel and a lot of them feel the same way. Are they anti-semitic too? Or just misguided?

I don't think you really understand the settler movement in israel if you think it's about 'building new apartments so close to palestinian neighborhoods'. The settlements that are in the west bank (a lot of which have outposts and houses that are illegal under israeli law) get a security perimeter that's provided by the IDF and that perimeter usually ends up on some palestinians' farmland. If you look carefully at what these folks are about and what they are doing (...and again I don't include east jerusalem in this because it's a special situation), you will quickly understand that they aren't interested in peace with the arabs. These are the same people who killed rabin, by the way, and as long the israeli government isn't willing to reign them in the way sharon did in gaza, there will be no peace...

 

[abe23]

If anyone is interested, have a look at this. It's a pbs frontline documentary about the extreme far-right in israel. They're not nearly as mainstream as hamas is among the palestinians, but they're just as much of an obstacle to peace in my view. Is it anti-semitic for me to bring this up?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/israel/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=grid&utm_source=grid

Shalom shabbat

 

[CrackerJax]

Since the Nazis were socialists.... you need to go back to skool son. Nazis were LEFT WING.

And as you can tell from this thread.... the left is still against the Jews....nothing has changed except the methodology.

 

[PlantManBee]

Since the Nazis were socialists.... you need to go back to skool son. Nazis were LEFT WING.

And as you can tell from this thread.... the left is still against the Jews....nothing has changed except the methodology.

they have nothing in common except Bozos like to point out the have the same label. one stood for racial purity...Obama? i can't understand why you are so arrogant about your intelligence.

 

[PlantManBee]

Since the Nazis were socialists.... you need to go back to skool son. Nazis were LEFT WING.

And as you can tell from this thread.... the left is still against the Jews....nothing has changed except the methodology.

Almost every jew i know (many) is a left winger. REALLY, and i know many at the local temple and the local synagogue. yes even the orthodox are lefties as well as non-observant jews...what is that name........ John Stewart, oh yeah HE is radical RIGHT WING! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! do you really believe the LEFT WINGERS are anti-jewish? Please think this time.

 

[RickWhite]

Ok then.....I guess the answer is no. Anti-semitic hyperbole, huh? How convenient....

I'm not talking about people building apartments in east jerusalem. I'm talking about the people who like to lynch arabs in hebron, for example...
A disproportionate response would be invading gaza because of the toy rockets landing in sderot. When was the last suicide bombing against a civilian target in israel? I'm not talking about that....
And I'm talking specifically about gaza when i say open air prison. There is no way for people or any supplies to get in other than through the smuggling tunnels. I do think it's a huge humanitarian problem, hamas or not.

How is any of that anti-semitic? I have family in israel and a lot of them feel the same way. Are they anti-semitic too? Or just misguided?

I don't think you really understand the settler movement in israel if you think it's about 'building new apartments so close to palestinian neighborhoods'. The settlements that are in the west bank (a lot of which have outposts and houses that are illegal under israeli law) get a security perimeter that's provided by the IDF and that perimeter usually ends up on some palestinians' farmland. If you look carefully at what these folks are about and what they are doing (...and again I don't include east jerusalem in this because it's a special situation), you will quickly understand that they aren't interested in peace with the arabs. These are the same people who killed rabin, by the way, and as long the israeli government isn't willing to reign them in the way sharon did in gaza, there will be no peace...

I'm well aware that there is also a radical Left in Israel and a radical Right that is an obstacle to peace. Your views on Gaza are nothing short of ridiculous. Again, Gaza more than anything demonstrates that the Arabs don't want peace. Their situation in Gaza is entirely of their own making. And the one thing that is reducing suicide bombers is the fence they built. The same fence that the Arabs claimed was to steal their land. The fucking fence is to keep suicide bombers out - get it straight.

What you fail to realize is that none of this would exist if the Arabs weren't hell bent on war. But tell me, are you a fan of Noam Chomsky and Norman Finklestein? Something tells me your views are quite similar.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Since the Nazis were socialists.... you need to go back to skool son. Nazis were LEFT WING.

And as you can tell from this thread.... the left is still against the Jews....nothing has changed except the methodology.

Wrong

The party was called Socialist

However the policies were Fascist

Not left, right.

You should not-post instead of posting more often

 

[abe23]

What's ridiculous about my views on gaza? The idf and the few israelis there left and sealed the place off. The thugs from hamas chased out the PA and took over. And about a million people are stuck in one of the of the most densely populated places on earth and are cut off from the rest of the world, except for some humanitarian aid and smuggling tunnels. I'm not even taking sides...just saying it's a problem from a human point of view and it's why there needs to be some progress on a peace deal. Because as long as those people are stuck in gaza and angry as hell, there won't be any peace anytime soon. I don't know where you got the thing about the fence, but I'm totally in favor of it and always have been. And yes, it works.

Also, I'm not at all a fan of chomsky or finkelstein. Are you a big fan of meir kahane?

Frankly....another obstacle to peace is american jews like yourself who don't live there, don't really understand the situation, but support the far-right and the hawks 100% of the time.

 

[CrackerJax]

You are mistaken.... most Jews are Democrats.... not left wingnuts. There is a difference..... and they are beginning to shift...thanks to Obama.

Bateman you need a history lesson and a bit of common sense. Hitler would not have allied with the Communists... sigh.... so many uneducated folks.... so little time.

Nazis were all on the left...they did hide their stripe half way through....because the German civilians wouldn't stand to be called communists...so they changed the "label"...but the ideology was the SAME. It all came from the LEFT.

 

[PlantManBee]

You are mistaken.... most Jews are Democrats.... not left wingnuts. There is a difference..... and they are beginning to shift...thanks to Obama.

well i guess you know them better than they know themselves...they identify themselves with the left.

 

[abe23]

Dude...seriously, don't bother with CJ. He's willing to believe anything he hears on glenn beck, but thinks every piece of evidence and every history book ever written is part of some kind of conspiracy. Don't waste your time....

 

[RickWhite]

What's ridiculous about my views on gaza? The idf and the few israelis there left and sealed the place off. The thugs from hamas chased out the PA and took over. And about a million people are stuck in one of the of the most densely populated places on earth and are cut off from the rest of the world, except for some humanitarian aid and smuggling tunnels. I'm not even taking sides...just saying it's a problem from a human point of view and it's why there needs to be some progress on a peace deal. Because as long as those people are stuck in gaza and angry as hell, there won't be any peace anytime soon. I don't know where you got the thing about the fence, but I'm totally in favor of it and always have been. And yes, it works.

Also, I'm not at all a fan of chomsky or finkelstein. Are you a big fan of meir kahane?

Frankly....another obstacle to peace is american jews like yourself who don't live there, don't really understand the situation, but support the far-right and the hawks 100% of the time.

Gaza, more than anything proves the case for Israel. For years, Jews have been warning that if they give it back it will only be used as a base from which to launch rockets and plan terrorist acts. Israel gave back Gaza and that is exactly what happened.

Why are you not asking why the Palestinians haven't made any effort to build anything there? And BTW, Hammas was in fact elected by the Palestinians so they are the official governing body as far as the people are concerned. Of course we don't recognize them, but they are in fact the elected government of the Palestinians. This in itself also kind of puts to bed and notion that the Palestinians want peace.

Gaza is a perfect example of what happens when the Israelis attempt to trade land for peace. It is an example that speaks volumes about the Arab-Israeli conflict and one that the Left has preferred to sweep under the rug.

And now you come along with some theory about how it is an open air prison constructed by Israel and a humanitarian disaster. Well, guess what, when people devote all of their resources toward an un-winable war based on hatred and beliefs from the dark ages, that is bound to be the outcome.

But, the most interesting thing is how your whole take on Gaza can possibly be so ass backward. Obviously, you are reading from the far Left propaganda playbook.

 

[RickWhite]

Many non-religious or "Reformed" Jews have historically been Democrats and tend to lean left. More religious Jews tend to be Conservative.

After Obama it is likely that many Reformed Jews will shift right. But, also understand that most of these Liberal Jews associate much more with Liberalism than Judaism.

 

[CrackerJax]

Most Jews are DEMOCRATS. This does not mean that they are all hard core liberal nutjobs like "progressives".

If you have been paying ATTENTION....the Jewish community is watching with HORROR at Obama's foreign policy goofs and backhands at Israel.

Watch how the Jews vote in the next election.... nuff said there.

The Democrat party is not only left wing heretics.... yes they have lost a good chunk of conservatives....but they have been basically run off, and this has left the party vulnerable....which will be quite obvious again...in the next election.



Listen to Abe.... for once he is correct....don't bother with me.... I will crush you...like all the rest that post (abe) without an understanding of the way things work behind the scenes. I do know.... I make it my business to know....since it makes me $$$$ in the markt almost every time. That is why I do so much research...not for here... This is simply a left over.

 

[PlantManBee]

Listen to Abe.... for once he is correct....don't bother with me.... I will crush you...

yawn, you couldn't crush a grape with a wine press. you're just full of yourself. Lots of empty chest beating. an empty barrel makes the loudest noise. an expert at everything with no first hand knowledge. i could give a shit about how well off you are so you can stop trying to make THAT the issue.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Nazis were all on the left...they did hide their stripe half way through....because the German civilians wouldn't stand to be called communists...so they changed the "label"...but the ideology was the SAME. It all came from the LEFT.

No, Nazis were on the far right

Authoritarian Ultra Nationalists

Figure it out

Sometimes I think you prefer to be ignorant as long as you are right in your own little world

 

[medicineman]

Gaza, more than anything proves the case for Israel. For years, Jews have been warning that if they give it back it will only be used as a base from which to launch rockets and plan terrorist acts. Israel gave back Gaza and that is exactly what happened.

Why are you not asking why the Palestinians haven't made any effort to build anything there? And BTW, Hammas was in fact elected by the Palestinians so they are the official governing body as far as the people are concerned. Of course we don't recognize them, but they are in fact the elected government of the Palestinians. This in itself also kind of puts to bed and notion that the Palestinians want peace.

Gaza is a perfect example of what happens when the Israelis attempt to trade land for peace. It is an example that speaks volumes about the Arab-Israeli conflict and one that the Left has preferred to sweep under the rug.

And now you come along with some theory about how it is an open air prison constructed by Israel and a humanitarian disaster. Well, guess what, when people devote all of their resources toward an un-winable war based on hatred and beliefs from the dark ages, that is bound to be the outcome.

But, the most interesting thing is how your whole take on Gaza can possibly be so ass backward. Obviously, you are reading from the far Left propaganda playbook.

Talk about pompous action, we, the USA say we are for democratically elected government, then when the palestinians democratically elect a Hamas government, we, the USA don't recognize it. How can we, The USA, be taken credibly in any arab country? Yeah, you guys elect a government then we'll talk, Uhhhh, bullshit!!

 

[CrackerJax]

The nazis were left wingers.... sorry. Know your history folks...

Stay in skool! If you go to Bateman's skool....transfer somewhere better.

Yes, the opposite political spectrum always hook up together for global dominance....

 

[RickWhite]

The Right thinks the Left are fools. The Left thinks the Right is evil and therefore always tries to deamonize them.

Therefore, the Left Labels all evil people as being "far Right" even when their political ideology is Left.

The movie "American History X" was about a neo-Nazi who killed a black kid who was trying to steal his truck. He eventually became good friends with another black guy in jail an saw the error of his ways. In the movie, they flashed back to the roots of his and his brother's racism. What they flashed back to was his late father, a fireman who was the against affirmative action quota system of the fire dep. That was the root of their racist views according to the writers. Their father was against race based quotas.

It is propaganda like this that the Left uses to deamonize those who disagree with them. Attempting to label all racists and other evil people as "Right" is simply one such tactic. Why is everyone who hates Blacks assumed to be "Right wing." It was the Southern DEMOCRATS that were against integration. If a black guy is a racist is he far Right as well?

The fact is, Hitler, like other dictators were far Left in their thinking - he was for massive social programs and state control. One can not be a dictator of this type and be on the Right. How does one equate a group that is largely for individual liberty fascist? I guess, if there was a Christian theocracy somewhere one could correctly call that a right wing fascist dictatorship as the Religious Right is really the only radical Right group that exists.