Snake Oil, Horticultural Myths, Horticultural Urban Legends, and Persuaders

[Uncle Ben]

Good for veg

One of faves. Just got 2 quarts the other day, free gratis. It pays to network.

Don't know where you got your info but some of it is incorrect like the K thingie. For example it's P that supports root production, not K.

 

[Uncle Ben]

what do you do? Do you even grow pot?

It's really none of your business what I do.

Having said that, I checked out your journal. Someone needs some help - https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/356687-samwell-seed-well.html

You don't/can't retain lower leaves due to improper culture. If I had to guess part of the problem is because you bought into the low N foods BS so prevalent amongst noobs or you're doing something stupid like a Lollipopping drill. Some advise, when you upcan, bury the trunk as deep as possible. Also, exposed roots (pot on the right) is not cool. The least you can do is keep the surface roots covered.

When you bury the trunk you get root output along the trunk increasing water and salts uptake.

Here's how its done - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

I produce and retain leaves in mass and increase my production. These are fairly large plants considering I do SOB:



Now.....what's this popular forum bullshit that light doesn't reach the lower levels? That garden was crammed with plants and I still got good weight and bulk on the lowest buds.

UB

 

[Wolverine97]

It's really none of your business what I do.

Having said that, I checked out your journal. Someone needs some help - https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/356687-samwell-seed-well.html

You don't/can't retain lower leaves due to improper culture. If I had to guess part of the problem is because you bought into the low N foods BS so prevalent amongst noobs or you're doing something stupid like a Lollipopping drill. Some advise, when you upcan, bury the trunk as deep as possible. Also, exposed roots (pot on the right) is not cool. The least you can do is keep the surface roots covered.

When you bury the trunk you get root output along the trunk increasing water and salts uptake.

Here's how its done - https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

I produce and retain leaves in mass and increase my production. These are fairly large leaves considering I do SOB:

View attachment 1858241View attachment 1858242

Now.....what's this popular forum bullshit that light doesn't reach the lower levels? That garden was crammed with plants and I still got good weight and bulk on the lowest buds.

UB

Yes, in your grow the light penetrates to the lower branches. In a SCROG grow it does not. You should really quit saying that people who "lollipop" are stupid, because for those of us who SCROG it's absolutely necessary.

 

[IAm5toned]

wolverine-
lollipop and SCROG are two entirely different schools of thought, completely unrelated to each other... you should listen to UB, he knows what he is talking about... and do some research before you open your mouth, its like granpa always said... "Son, sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut and let people think your an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

this guy, UB, is one of the most experienced growers on this site, hands down. You might not agree with what he has to say, but if you LISTEN, you can learn and save yourself alot of time, and wasted effort and $$...

 

[Wolverine97]

wolverine-
lollipop and SCROG are two entirely different schools of thought, completely unrelated to each other... you should listen to UB, he knows what he is talking about... and do some research before you open your mouth, its like granpa always said... "Son, sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut and let people think your an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

this guy, UB, is one of the most experienced growers on this site, hands down. You might not agree with what he has to say, but if you LISTEN, you can learn and save yourself alot of time, and wasted effort and $$...

If you had followed the back and forth we've had over several threads you'd know what I'm talking about. I've been doing this for quite some time too my man, I know very well what SCROG and lollipopping are, thank you. But now I have to explain myself yet again, and it's getting tiresome.My point is that for people who employ a SCROG, there is very little light that penetrates through the canopy (at least if done properly), hence the need to lollipop the lower growth so that it doesn't die off due to lack of light. So while the two may be unrelated on the surface, there is still correlation for SCROG growers.

And don't insinuate that I'm an idiot, as I'm most assuredly not (and that's my line btw). But thanks again. I know very well who UB is, that doesn't mean he's correct about everything he says. I'd put my garden up against anyone's, any day of the week. Bye.

 

[IAm5toned]

what your calling lollipopping is actually called pruning... lollipopping is a SOG technique.
let me refer to a BASIC lesson, one of the first lessons i ever learned as a professional:

terminology, is everything. heres why:

say a noob comes to you asking for advice on how to scrog... u say, oh man, you lollipop your lower branches and train the upper over some type of a support system.... so noob says... hmm... wtf is lollipopping mean? better look it up.. so mr noob gets online, looks up lollipopping, and then cuts every branch off his scrog except for the main cola... nice advice, huh? then, more noobs see your reply, and make the same mistake.

then experienced growers, take one look at your post, and tear it to peices, because for someone with such advanced knowledge and experience, you seem to have a difficulty distinguishing between two very basic concepts, and then defend your position based on your experience... lol.

and since im in a giving mood... ill give you a little tidbit:
you dont have to cut your lower branches to scrog.... what determines which branch becomes a cola, is not its location on the plant, BUT, its apical dominance. I can train the lowest branch on a plant (true node #1, which is actually about the the 3rd or 4th node to appear) to become the main cola of a plant, and take the flowering top (cola) and make it produce popcorn buds. without cutting a single branch. fascinating stuff.... but then again an experienced grower could tell you that SCROG is for patients.... because months of veg time is not very economic for any other kind of grow.. too many nutes, too much wasted time, and lamps are expensive.. i can run 2 harvests in the time it takes to veg out and flower a single scrog, and get equivalant, or greater amounts of finished product.

The fact that you say you HAVE to 'lollipop' your branches to SCROG, shows that in fact, you dont know much than to read others techniques and assume they are gospel.
Thats just the way the turd floats....

 

[Wolverine97]

what your calling lollipopping is actually called pruning... lollipopping is a SOG technique.
let me refer to a BASIC lesson, one of the first lessons i ever learned as a professional:

terminology, is everything. heres why:

say a noob comes to you asking for advice on how to scrog... u say, oh man, you lollipop your lower branches and train the upper over some type of a support system.... so noob says... hmm... wtf is lollipopping mean? better look it up.. so mr noob gets online, looks up lollipopping, and then cuts every branch off his scrog except for the main cola... nice advice, huh? then, more noobs see your reply, and make the same mistake.

then experienced growers, take one look at your post, and tear it to peices, because for someone with such advanced knowledge and experience, you seem to have a difficulty distinguishing between two very basic concepts, and then defend your position based on your experience... lol.

and since im in a giving mood... ill give you a little tidbit:
you dont have to cut your lower branches to scrog.... what determines which branch becomes a cola, is not its location on the plant, BUT, its apical dominance. I can train the lowest branch on a plant (true node #1, which is actually about the the 3rd or 4th node to appear) to become the main cola of a plant, and take the flowering top (cola) and make it produce popcorn buds. without cutting a single branch. fascinating stuff.... but then again an experienced grower could tell you that SCROG is for patients.... because months of veg time is not very economic for any other kind of grow.. too many nutes, too much wasted time, and lamps are expensive.. i can run 2 harvests in the time it takes to veg out and flower a single scrog, and get equivalant, or greater amounts of finished product.

The fact that you say you HAVE to 'lollipop' your branches to SCROG, shows that in fact, you dont know much than to read others techniques and assume they are gospel.
Thats just the way the turd floats....

Ok, I'm going to keep this short. You're wrong, it's still "lollipopping" whether it's SOG, SCROG, or otherwise. When you remove the bottom 1/3+ it is lollipopping, and yes, also "pruning". I understand apical dominance quite well, and you're correct that I could simply prune for 4-8 colas and call it good. But then you end up still stripping the bottom half of each main branch due to the aforementioned light penetration issue AND you have all of that branching which gets in the way when you hand water a couple 5x5 rooms with access only from the front. It's a matter of convenience and shaping the plants to suit my needs.

I pull 5 crops per year (10 if you count each room separately). I don't feed during veg, so it's not "too much nutes". I average a minimum 1.25gpw with 4 weeks ("months of veg time"?lol)veg running nine plants per 5x5 room so don't tell me it's not practical. Maybe not for you, for me it works great.

Guess this wasn't as short as intended, but whatever. Done being a dick? Probably not, right? Maybe you should re-read that quote you so kindly posted for me in your first reply and follow that advice yourself...

 

[IAm5toned]

thats right... i know nothing, and am merely a fool., and i bow down to your superior knowledge, and techniques

good luck in your endeavors....

oh, fyi:

lollipop:

scrog:

look at all those lollipopped lower branches.... lmao.

 

[Wolverine97]

thats right... i know nothing, and am merely a fool., and i bow down to your superior knowledge, and techniques

good luck in your endeavors....

oh, fyi:

lollipop:

scrog:

look at all those lollipopped lower branches.... lmao.

I didn't call you a fool, you called me a fool. And if you read what I wrote, it would be kinda tough to hand water a 5' deep room with branches intertwined like that otherwise that would probably be my preference. And if the Shroomery thing is supposed to be a link, it's broken. Good day sir.

 

[IAm5toned]

i ripped the pics off the net.... since i neither scrog or lollipop. and i didnt call you a fool, directly, i used a folk saying that was pertinent to the situation.
have you tried a funnel with a short hose? u can get em at a dollar store real cheap.... saves you ALOT of hassle. but then again, i know nothing.

 

[Wolverine97]

i ripped the pics off the net.... since i neither scrog or lollipop. and i didnt call you a fool, directly, i used a folk saying that was pertinent to the situation.
have you tried a funnel with a short hose? u can get em at a dollar store real cheap.... saves you ALOT of hassle. but then again, i know nothing.

I've tried the funnel thing, yes, it's not very practical (you try holding a funnel in place leaning over 5' AND watering while doing it) but in the long run I get better results doing what I do. And one more time, I never said you didn't know anything, at all. I disagreed with your application of terminology, and snapped because you assume that I don't understand basic horticultural concepts. I just don't appreciate being talked down to, I doubt anyone does. And I get sick of every time anyone questions UB, the hive comes to his defense without question. I respect his opinion, and think he could be (and sometimes is) a very valued contributor, but I'm very at-odds with his means of delivery. I've tried getting him to acknowledge that I have a point, but he ignores it then says the same damn thing in the next thread... it gets old.

 

[cannawizard]

**im glad everyone isnt busting out flame-throwers


--cheers

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

no flames, needed hot air raises

i better get a graduate student to check though . . .. .?

 

[Wolverine97]

**im glad everyone isnt busting out flame-throwers


--cheers

I prefer a squirt gun myself...

 

[Uncle Ben]

If you had followed the back and forth we've had over several threads you'd know what I'm talking about. I've been doing this for quite some time too my man, I know very well what SCROG and lollipopping are, thank you. But now I have to explain myself yet again, and it's getting tiresome.

You should try on my galoshes sometime LOL. I have to agree, apples and oranges. All of the proponents of self mutilation I've seen have been on regular plants, not SCROG gardens. What's happening is folks, mainly noobs, are giving into popular practices and throwing botany out the door.

Back to SCROG.......yes, if a leaf is not functioning then you should drop it, after mama nature waves a flag to do so.

Wolverine, you're no idiot but any one that has the balls to mess with SCROG and keep their sanity deserves a medal. There, wasn't that a nice comment?

 

[Wolverine97]

You should try on my galoshes sometime LOL. I have to agree, apples and oranges. All of the proponents of self mutilation I've have been regular plants that I've seen around here, not SCROG. What's happening is folks, mainly noobs, are giving into popular practices and throwing botany out the door.

Back to SCROG.......yes, if a leaf is not functioning then you should drop it, after mama nature waves a flag to do so.

Wolverine, you're no idiot but any one that has the balls to mess with SCROG and keep their sanity deserves a medal. There, wasn't that a nice comment?

Well HOT DAMN! I'll be. Sumbitch. That one made me smile, a welcome change it is... That's all I was trying to get you to acknowledge. And yes, SCROG is a pain for a couple of weeks, but after stretch it's all gravy. Peace.

 

[Uncle Ben]

.... I respect his opinion, and think he could be (and sometimes is) a very valued contributor, but I'm very at-odds with his means of delivery. I've tried getting him to acknowledge that I have a point, but he ignores it then says the same damn thing in the next thread... it gets old.

Grandpappy say, "if you can't stand the heat then git ur ass outta da kitchin"

Just a thought as I have done some ergonomic cartwheels a time or two with every kind of garden you can imagine which includes greenhouse management. If you're the typical male say around 6' tall or a little under, then don't construct anything wider than 54" accessed from both sides. 36" if access is only possible from one side. There are very long funnels sold at auto parts stores that flare out to about 6" at top, quickly taper to a tube that is at least 18". I use one for hard to reach places like on my tractor and such.

Regarding my coarse demeanor, you do have a point. Patience is not my strongest suit especially when it comes to fools and lazy folk.

Now, go take a long walk off a short pier LOL.

UB

 

[billy4479]

So Uncle Ben may i ask you what fertilzers you use yourself ??.. you seem like a man who does is home work ive been cuirous what you feed your girls ..

 

[Uncle Ben]

Well HOT DAMN! I'll be. Sumbitch. That one made me smile, a welcome change it is... That's all I was trying to get you to acknowledge. And yes, SCROG is a pain for a couple of weeks, but after stretch it's all gravy. Peace.

Just an after thought. The term lollipop was contrived with the thought that if you removed the lower branches that somehow the plant's <cough>, "energy" would be directed to the upper half creating a round lollipop profile or one large cola.

So Uncle Ben may i ask you what fertilzers you use yourself ??.. you seem like a man who does is home work ive been cuirous what you feed your girls ..

Oysters on the half shell and a white Albarino wine for starters, maybe some escargole, then prime rib with braised vegetables washed down with a Bordeaux red finishing with cream sherry and some triamisu. Then it's bed time.

I use whatever is on the shelf concentrating on the NPK values and micros. Walmart foods, slow release, blood and bone meals, alfalfa, Peters, Dyna-Gro....anything that isn't "cannabis specific" and doesn't come with a chart. Harrell's and Plant Products are other brands.

UB

 

[Wolverine97]

Grandpappy say, "if you can't stand the heat then git ur ass outta da kitchin"

Just a thought as I have done some ergonomic cartwheels a time or two with every kind of garden you can imagine which includes greenhouse management. If you're the typical male say around 6' tall or a little under, then don't construct anything wider than 54" accessed from both sides. 36" if access is only possible from one side. There are very long funnels sold at auto parts stores that flare out to about 6" at top, quickly taper to a tube that is at least 18". I use one for hard to reach places like on my tractor and such.

Regarding my coarse demeanor, you do have a point. Patience is not my strongest suit especially when it comes to fools and lazy folk.

Now, go take a long walk off a short pier LOL.

UB

Agreed. I'm about 50% through construction of my newest room, and I've learned from past logistical nightmares. My new flower room is a wide open 8x8, and I have no intention of doing SCROG in this space. I'll go with larger plants and use bamboo stake tepee's for any extra support. It will also allow me to leave the lower growth like I used to do prior to going SCROG. I'll keep the screens going in the other rooms because I get maximum yield that way, but I don't want the maintenance issues with this much area to deal with.

FWIW, I can sort of understand getting short with people, but I think it's also counterproductive at times. Peace, respek.