Chemistry Discussion Thread

[MrEDuck]

Been thinking and I was wondering if that duck of yours has synthed DMT from store bought L-tryptophan.
Doesn't seem all to extensive and with a well drawn out process, yield might be pretty large.

Decarboxylation of 10g L-tryptophan to for an roughly estimated 9g(90%) yield of tryptamine.

Where would one go from there?

It's really not practical considering there are like eleventyone billion plants that it can be extracted from. See Plants of the Gods for a list.
To make DMT from tryptamine you can methylate it with iodomethane and form the trimethylammonium salt, then knock a methyl group off (see TiHKAL for details). Or you can use formic acid to form the amide and reduce it.
If you want to synth something from tryptophan I would suggest reducing it to make AMT, or reducing it to the alcohol and extending it by reaction with a cyanide and reducing to make AET. Obviously I do not reccomend anyone play around with cyanide outside of a real lab with plenty of experience. The reaction would run best with an acid solution of KCN. You know what else we use an acidic solution of KCN for? Gas chambers.

 

[MrEDuck]

Happy to find this thread. I'ven been researching brightstar's and docter drool's synthesis and there are a lot of way's to do the same. Which one is the best? The destilation of the oil is very clear to me. But the other steps can be done in many way's and i can't make up the best one. I've the knowledge to do these steps but i don't have the time to test all the way's to find the best one. So how would you plan to do this? Which steps, which parts from the most common synthesis would you combine? Hoping you can help me!

The best method is the one you have the reagents and glassware for. I don't get into those kind of specifics. Look around the internet and you'll find plenty of info.

 

[morfin56]

Couldn't you just di-methylate the trytamine with formaldehyde and NaBH3CN in methanol?
Starting from 102(.5 mole) of L-tryptophan and decarboxylating that for a 90%+ yield of tryptamine,
don't you think it would be well worth it yield wise?

 

[MrEDuck]

Couldn't you just di-methylate the trytamine with formaldehyde and NaBH3CN in methanol?
Starting from 102(.5 mole) of L-tryptophan and decarboxylating that for a 90%+ yield of tryptamine,
don't you think it would be well worth it yield wise?

That could work, I've never done it so you would want to search the literature and more likely places where bees hang out for tryptamine specific reactions. An Eschweiler-Clarke methylation could also work. There's too damn many ways to tack on a methyl group.
I still say AMT is a better use of tryptophan and a strong reducing agent. Any of the billion acid/alcohol functional group inversions should do nicely, then reduce the alcohol.
You might run into problems with some of the tryptamine + formaldehyde reactions where rather than methylating you form a third ring where the formaldehyde carbon ends up binding the amine and the indole 2 position, i know they can do that under certain conditions. Trial and error may be involved if you can't find a setup that someone else did to peer review. Any of the methylations should yield some DMT, but it might be useless without purifying it on a column.
I really must confess I hadn't ever given this the thought it deserves because of the frequency of DMT in the natural world. Finding the enzyme that methylates tryptamine in nature and sticking it into a bacteria would be the ideal way (much like you can make some pretty cool 4-OH subbed tryptamines with mushrooms).

 

[morfin56]

What about refluxing tryptamine in a xylene with methyl iodide or dimethylzinc?

Methyliodide should be easy enough to procure.

 

[MrEDuck]

They form salts. They're really potent methylators, that lone pair does a much better job binding to that carbon than either the iodine or the zinc. Iodine has no problem chilling with an extra electron out in space. How many protons does it have? The ratio of charge barely changes. Organometallic compounds aren't exactly the most stable of things. Dimethylzinc is one of the reasons for that reputation. When you google it the first link is it's Wikipedia entry, the second is http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2009/10/23/things_i_wont_work_with_straight_dimethyl_zinc.php

I need to pause here and mention my deep and abiding love of Things I Won't Work With. The guy is a very good chem blogger. It's not that interesting to most. TIWWW is appealing to anyone who wants to read about things like metal fluorine fires. Best advice for what do to around one is run. This shit burns sand.
Anyway back to dimethylzinc, so it makes that list. I've worked with it, there is a purpose for which it is the most amazing thing ever for. Cleaning residual O2 and H2O out of your glovebox. Drop a few drops of it out. If it evaporates without smoke you're good. Drop it until it does. I managed to keep the worse glove box ever running functionally by cleaning it out before every use. Thankfully the stuff is available commercially.

 

[canndo]

So, we've talked about the theoretical cleansing of MDMA, how about the purification of cocaine? I recall having a book about that once - it was recrystalized but I don't recall how.

 

[morfin56]

So, we've talked about the theoretical cleansing of MDMA, how about the purification of cocaine? I recall having a book about that once - it was recrystalized but I don't recall how.

Some simple A/B procedures.
Or just recrystallize.

Ethanol, methanol, and acetone all would work I believe.

 

[canndo]

Some simple A/B procedures.
Or just recrystallize.

Ethanol, methanol, and acetone all would work I believe.

I understand presence of water is a big killer, considering that the hcl is highly soluble. Baseify, dislove in acetone or methanol and resalt? no?

 

[MrEDuck]

Cocaine has a pKa of 8.6, so at pH<=6.6 extract with nonpolar and discard. Raise pH to 10.6-11.0 and extract with nonpolar then bubble through with HCl. Reasonably pure cocaine HCl. Not sure what the best recrystallization solvent system is. Once you've recrystallized you can reflux it in acidic ethanol to get the much better cocaethylene without having to drink.

 

[morfin56]

You could freebase the cocaine with sodium carbonate in a flask of water. (1g Cc:50ml H20 pH 11)
Extract with petroleum ether and use anhydrous epsom salt to dry the solvent afterward. (~70% yield [20ml pet ether:1g Cc])
Precipitated with 2ml 38% HCl 50ml anhydrous acetone to every 2g of freebase.
Pour through filter to collect cocaine HCl crystals.

Cocaine has a pKa of 8.6, so at pH<=6.6 extract with nonpolar and discard. Raise pH to 10.6-11.0 and extract with nonpolar then bubble through with HCl. Reasonably pure cocaine HCl. Not sure what the best recrystallization solvent system is. Once you've recrystallized you can reflux it in acidic ethanol to get the much better cocaethylene without having to drink.

This is ingenious, especially that last sentence. I would +rep but I need to spread rep around before giving more to you.

 

[canndo]

But... would crystalized cocaethylene have roughly the same properties? I.E. disolve quickly,not sting etc? Interestingly, it could be argued that this chemical is legal. I see that it is more potent with dopamine trasporter but less with seratonin. Lasts longer - so, if you were to mix the two together you would have a fine coctail. Except for the possible hepatic and cardiotoxicity. Well, acording to a cursory review.

 

[MrEDuck]

I wouldn't want to try to argue that one in a court of law. It's a (literally) textbook example of what kind of craziness can ensue when you mix drugs. You'd only make it for one reason.
It should have very similar properties, it's one carbon away from coke. The cardiac and heptatoxcities are less of a danger than mixing coke + booze. At least your liver wouldn't be making methanol in vivo.
I really don't know much about come, the tropane ring should never be used as a foundation for a recreational drug. Coke and the Belladonna alkaloids. Count me out.

 

[morfin56]

I think the ignorance of the federal structural analogs act would slap you with a charge that you couldn't argue out of in court.
Probably even worse penalties than if you had just coke.

 

[MrEDuck]

I've never even thought about trying to get around the analog act. If you need that to keep you safe you've fucked up badly at some point. It's one thing to use it to sell grey market products, manufacture is a very different story. If you get caught you're fucked. It's that simple.

 

[VLRD.Kush]

I'm a Type 1 Diabetic, and have noticed something pretty weird with MDMA, my blood glucose goes WAYYY up when I consume. Can anyone comment on why this occurs? I've had it for 20 years now so I can usually tell when something is out of whack, and when I do feel like something's wrong I'm quick to fix it.

 

[MrEDuck]

Stimulants in general often cause a jump in blood sugar, especially in diabetics. I just did some quick searches to see if the mechanism is known but couldn't find anything. Just don't do it because of this reason because drugs are evil. Just be mindful that sugar levels can be fuckwd up on MDMA and stims, and have everything you need to adjust them on hand. Low sugar is possible as well from dancing your ass off so keep a few glucose tabs as well.

 

[VLRD.Kush]

Stimulants in general often cause a jump in blood sugar, especially in diabetics. I just did some quick searches to see if the mechanism is known but couldn't find anything. Just don't do it because of this reason because drugs are evil. Just be mindful that sugar levels can be fuckwd up on MDMA and stims, and have everything you need to adjust them on hand. Low sugar is possible as well from dancing your ass off so keep a few glucose tabs as well.

Thanks for the info. I definitely try to keep my glucose levels good, my granddad is blind because of not taking care of his diabetes.

There's just no reason to not take care of it, it's easy. Even at raves/ parties/ and shows, while drinking/ rolling/ tripping I can take care of my insulin doses.

 

[smok3h]

I'm just guessing here, but perhaps something in the MDMA inhibits the body's cells' ability to utilize insulin and absorb blood glucose. Type 1 Diabetes means you naturally have little natural insulin production, right? This would lead to hyperglycemia if true.

I imagine a good way to test this would be: on the day you decide to roll, eat meals very similar to what you would eat on a normal day. test your blood glucose level before dosing to make sure it's at a predictably normal level. Then, an hour or two after dosing the MDMA, check your blood glucose level again. If the MDMA is the only other substance you've introduced to your body, and your blood glucose level is high, it's reasonable to deduce that there is in fact something in the MDMA that promotes hyperglycemia.

 

[MrEDuck]

We don't need to do a test, stims cause it that's quite clear. A study into the mechanism would be awesome though.