All Natural Organics. The Dons' Summaries + FAQ Thread. <2017-'18>

[SSGrower]

I haven't tried frass yet but I plan to. I have done both the popcorn and cannabis SST before with great results. I'm trying to come up with teas for flowering. I know a regular compost tea is good, but there has to be a few other ingredients that'll give the ladies an extra boost by boosting the life in my soil. Most of my amendments are not water soluble so trying to add them to a tea doesn't work. From what I understand, popcorn tea is great for veg which is when I did mine the first time. Maybe I'll give the cannabis SST to them in bloom and see what happens. I've planted cover crops in my mother plants pots in order to start my no till gardening. I have ordered some more worms and will be putting some in all the pots as well. My end goal is to be running a perpetual grow that only needs water with an occasional aloe foliar and some molasses in bloom. I'll definitely be in this thread regularly to continue learning and sharing things I learn in return.

Quick question; Have you used a milk/water mixture to help fight powdery mildew? I have some og kush plants and one pineapple haze plant about two to three weeks into bloom and they're starting to show spots. I've used baking soda and water mixed about three weeks ago and it seemed to work for awhile but it's back and a little bit more than before. Trying to salvage as much as possible. Thanks.

I used 1/2 and 1/2 on a petunia that had it cause I didnt have milk. To my recollection 1 tablespoon in a quart, i had found a recipe for milk then reduced it by 1/2. In my understanding the basic Idea is to throw of pH or just change it upmor down didnt really matter. The recipie i gave worked on the petunia, took a coplemof applications.

 

[DonTesla]

 

[DonTesla]

I see what you mean about biochar it seems like a must have. Does it need to be charged?

It does need to be charged, I prefer a 'dry' slow aerobic charge vs a wet charge. Like a compost or casting charge vs a tea or soak. And a nice texture. Rice grain size mixed with chip size to provide microbial housing and apartments.

You do this once you & never have to do it again. Its a premium aeration that supports micro life while slowly release what you charged it with, thanks to its millions of microspores. 10% is great for me, but even 2 is good and anything up to 15 is great.

Let me know what shipping's like from the dudes here

 

[firstnamelast]

It does need to be charged, I prefer a 'dry' slow aerobic charge vs a wet charge. Like a compost or casting charge vs a tea or soak. And a nice texture. Rice grain size mixed with chip size to provide microbial housing and apartments.

You do this once you & never have to do it again. Its a premium aeration that supports micro life while slowly release what you charged it with, thanks to its millions of microspores. 10% is great for me, but even 2 is good and anything up to 15 is great.

Let me know what shipping's like from the dudes here
View attachment 4071526

Looks like I'll have to call them tomorrow. In the mean time I found this
https://www.planetnatural.com/product/organic-biochar/
I think I assumed too much that a bigger recipe would = a much more complicated grow. With the way my friend does it, it certainly would be since I'd have to amend my soil with every single ingredient again according to him. I'm seeing now it isn't the case with no-till. Maybe I should open my mind up to whatever is the BEST no-till methods period and forget simplicity. Because it's already going to be much simpler.

I'm not trying to cheap out anyway I do want the best I can get. Sorry if you feel I've wasted your time, I have learned a lot though! Also what is an alternative to soft rock phosphate? I've heard nasty things about it.

 

[firstnamelast]

Where can I find the most recent issue of The Don's No Tills No Frills Super Patented Public Recipe #1?

 

[ShLUbY]

Your personal garden? Wow very nice!! I asked my friend his opinion on no-till methods and he claims they are no good lol I'll have to show him these. He finally broke down and took a look at what you gave me for a soil recipe and strongly strongly recommended I do the following for every 5 gal - 7.5 gal / 1 cu ft:

Compost 2.5 gal - 1/3 cu ft
.83 gal - 1/9 cu ft Mushroom 10%
.83 gal - 1/9 cu ft Leaf mold 10%
.83 gal - 1/9 cu ft Worm castings 10%

Aeration 2.5 gal - 1/3 cu ft
1.25 gal - 1/6 cu ft Pumice 15%
1.25 gal - 1/6 cu ft Organic rice hulls 15%

Base 2.5 gal - 1/3 cu ft
2.5 gal - 1/3 cu ft Sphagnum peat moss 30%

Meals/nutes (3 cups)
1 cup Kelp meal
1/2 cup Neem meal
1/2 cup Fish meal
1/2 cup Fish bone meal
1/2 cup Black soldier fly frass
Alfalfa meal - veg mostly, use mainly in tea or top dress
Langbeinite - at flower flip mostly, top dress

Minerals (3-4 cups)
2 cups Basalt
1/2 cup Glacial rock dust
1/2 cup Green sand
1 cup Diatomaceous earth

Liming/calcium (2 cups)
3/4 cup Gypsum
3/4 cup Lime
1/2 cup Oyster shell powder/flour

And he's suggesting I start with
https://www.planetnatural.com/product/sunshine-mix-4/
to get a proper liming and pH. Anything you see in all this as unnecessary, overkill, redundant, or non organic? I already have my seedlings in 4" square pots in some low nute baby soil. Thanks again!

honestly man, i would ditch the rice hulls if you're only going to use pumice as the other portion. they saturate within a month, and just don't cut it IMO for drainage material. I like them much better as a mulch. you'd be better off with mostly pumice and then the remaining portion bio char. just speaking from experience about the hulls. I was pretty disappointed with them as a drainage material.

 

[firstnamelast]

honestly man, i would ditch the rice hulls if you're only going to use pumice as the other portion. they saturate within a month, and just don't cut it IMO for drainage material. I like them much better as a mulch. you'd be better off with mostly pumice and then the remaining portion bio char. just speaking from experience about the hulls. I was pretty disappointed with them as a drainage material.

Cool thanks for the input, so far I've decided on pumice, biochar, diatomaceous earth, and leaf mold for aeration. I doubt I'm gonna use that recipe I posted

 

[firstnamelast]

Where can I find the most recent issue of The Don's No Tills No Frills Super Patented Public Recipe #1?

I can assume page 1 of this thread of course, but you never know there might be an updated one somewhere!

 

[ShLUbY]

Cool thanks for the input, so far I've decided on pumice, biochar, and diatomaceous earth for aeration. I doubt I'm gonna use that recipe I posted

i mean there's not a lot wrong with your recipe you have. if it were me, i would drop the fish meal. i would go something like 1/2 cup OSF and 1/4 cup lime to balance the Ca/Mg ratio. and i would reduce gypsum to 1/2 cup.

I also think you are wise to topdress the langbenite for flower. i would try and make a mixture of NPK with N being the lowest value, and P and K being the higher values. remember the numbers are represented by % of weight (not mass), so adjust accordingly. this would be a good "bloom mix" to topdress a plant with right around the time of flip. i usually topdress mine around the 2nd week, and by the 4th week its breaking down nicely and carrying them all the way through flower.

the first no till run you won't need to top dress as heavy because your soil will still contain a lot of mineral nutrition because it's the initial mix. but subsequent runs will require more generous topdressing because you'll basically be feeding the plant from the upper most horizon and the lower horizons will become more for drawing up group 3 and group 4 minerals and water (cations and metals for photosynthetic reactions).

also, do you have a worm farm? if not, i suggest starting one ASAP. and then make sure to put some worms in your no-till containers so they help work that upper horizon and keep things breaking down to become plant available!

 

[firstnamelast]

i mean there's not a lot wrong with your recipe you have. if it were me, i would drop the fish meal. i would go something like 1/2 cup OSF and 1/4 cup lime to balance the Ca/Mg ratio. and i would reduce gypsum to 1/2 cup.

I also think you are wise to topdress the langbenite for flower. i would try and make a mixture of NPK with N being the lowest value, and P and K being the higher values. remember the numbers are represented by % of weight (not mass), so adjust accordingly. this would be a good "bloom mix" to topdress a plant with right around the time of flip. i usually topdress mine around the 2nd week, and by the 4th week its breaking down nicely and carrying them all the way through flower.

the first no till run you won't need to top dress as heavy because your soil will still contain a lot of mineral nutrition because it's the initial mix. but subsequent runs will require more generous topdressing because you'll basically be feeding the plant from the upper most horizon and the lower horizons will become more for drawing up group 3 and group 4 minerals and water (cations and metals for photosynthetic reactions).

also, do you have a worm farm? if not, i suggest starting one ASAP. and then make sure to put some worms in your no-till containers so they help work that upper horizon and keep things breaking down to become plant available!

I do have a worm farm going! It's super basic at the moment, just worms in a bin right now lol. Should I put some worms in my seedlings' soil? These little guys are always trying to escape. I didn't catch why fish meal is no good. Thanks for the reply!

 

[ShLUbY]

I do have a worm farm going! It's super basic at the moment, just worms in a bin right now lol. Should I put some worms in my seedlings' soil? These little guys are always trying to escape. I didn't catch why fish meal is no good. Thanks for the reply!

nah i wouldn't worry about putting them in the seedling soil. they shouldn't be trying to escape.... you might want to seek advice as to why they are trying to get out!

the fish meal is just high N and high P. that much N is really unnecessary and you already have plenty with the alfalfa meal, frass, and neem. you have plenty of P with the fishbone meal (which i also use and like). fish meal is just a redundant ingredient in this recipe IMO. each ingredient should serve a purpose! redundancy will only result in imbalances.

take a step back and look at your overall nutrient profile. this is how you learn to cut an ingredient, or notice that you need to add something to fill a purpose

 

[firstnamelast]

Thanks I appreciate it. I'd like to cut out all redundancies, any of that is just wasted energy and resources. I'm leaning towards just doing The Don's recipe on page 1 here. He watered it down for me but I don't think I should take any shortcuts.

Maybe I sprayed the bin too much, felt like a light mist. Or put too much food in there. They're climbing on the walls of the bin and on the lid

 

[ShLUbY]

Thanks I appreciate it. I'd like to cut out all redundancies, any of that is just wasted energy and resources. I'm leaning towards just doing The Don's recipe on page 1 here. He watered it down for me but I don't think I should take any shortcuts.

Maybe I sprayed the bin too much, felt like a light mist. Or put too much food in there. They're climbing on the walls of the bin and on the lid

i rarely ever add any water to my bin. i keep a piece of panda film covering the bedding which prevents evaporation. your scraps you put in it should have all the water the bin needs after the initial dampening. sounds like your medium is too wet to me. you do have drainage holes in the bin yes?

 

[firstnamelast]

Haven't put any at the bottom yet, I need to add a couple more layers to my bin too. I'm surprised I only pumped about 4 squirts onto the bedding when I first put it in there. Are citrus or banana peels ok to feed them?

 

[ShLUbY]

I need to add a couple more layers to my bin still, haven't put any at the bottom yet. I'm surprised I only pumped about 4 sprays onto the bedding when I first put it in there. Are citrus or banana peels ok to feed them?

what is your bedding made of? did you pre wet the bedding before mixing it all together? most do not feed citrus because it's a natural anti microbial. banana peels are great! generally, things that have higher amounts of natural sugars like banana, apple, carrot, sweet potato, etc are broken down quickly by sugar feeding microbes in the bin and create the "slurp" that the worms love to feed on. also, did you provide them some grit? a quart of sandy loam soil will work, rock dusts, oyster shell flour, etc, which will aid their digestion.

my worm bin recipe

1 part leaves, 1 part peat moss (both pre soaked/hydrated)
1/2 part pumice
1/2 cup oyster shell flour per cubic foot to help with maintaining steady pH
1 cup rock dust per cubic foot

mix all ingredients thoroughly.

i fill about 8-10" of bedding into my tote. then i'll put down a light layer of outdoor compost and a quart of sandy soil (the worms love compost), then i'll add any scraps i have (preferably ones starting to break down already or will be quickly broken down like pulp from my juicer). I also sprinkle some cannabis leaf meal, kelp meal, greensand, OSF, and coffee grounds (couple TBSP of each) on top of the food scraps. then i take the remaining couple inches of bedding and lay that on top, put the worms on top of that, and shine a light on it for an hour or so to make them dive down into the bedding.

hope that helps.

 

[firstnamelast]

Those are some great ideas thank you! I'm using care fresh paper bedding for my rabbit lol. I followed the directions that came with the worms and that's about it. I sprayed the bedding right before I tossed it in, I didn't soak it or anything. I heard bad things about citrus I wanted to double check, I eat bananas all day long though haha. I haven't added any of what you suggested this is the first time I'm hearing it. I've been holding off ordering anything until I get my recipe down 100%

 

[firstnamelast]

I don't think the bedding was any good, I took it all out. It has an absorbing agent in it and they won't say what's it is

 

[ShLUbY]

I don't think the bedding was any good, I took it all out. It has an absorbing agent in it and they won't say what's it is

yup, that would definitely make them want to leave!

 

[firstnamelast]

How do I save a dying seedling? It was never put into the soil correctly, the root is shooting up and out. Is it safe to dig it up and re-root it or am I wasting my time trying?

 

[Joe Blows Trees]

I used 1/2 and 1/2 on a petunia that had it cause I didnt have milk. To my recollection 1 tablespoon in a quart, i had found a recipe for milk then reduced it by 1/2. In my understanding the basic Idea is to throw of pH or just change it upmor down didnt really matter. The recipie i gave worked on the petunia, took a coplemof applications.

I used a tbsp of milk in a qt. I'll be hitting them again for the next three to four weeks. Hopefully that'll keep it away. It's predominantly on my og kush plants. Other than PM, the plants are growing fine.

Great to her, the more sharing findings, the better.

Haven't used milk / water to fight PM tbh, but I have never had to worry about it.. selecting strains resistant to it is a big pro active step that has to be considered, and the frass helping a lot in that regard too, I've just been fortunate to avoid it these last 12 rounds

If I was having issues with a strain, I would apply

• AACT for its biofilm, right after hitting it with
• milk 6:4 water
• LABS,
• frass foliar

Apparently sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) can affect its ph and kill it but I don't dig carbonates much.

Regarding the teas, though, which I am open to them on smaller pots if need be, or whenever need be, I just don't like adding P to the soil during flower, if I can avoid, or rhizospheres more so, it can negatively affect the beneficial "bite" the myco have going on, which are the real champion workhorses in a finish. Nevermind ph fluxes so much.. in a high humus that's well buffered.

If messing around with flowering teas, I would consider trying this though :

pre feed a fungal dom bit of soil with fungal food, and get it highly fungal, and use that to give fungi a head start for brewing .. since they cant multiply like bacteria boost their numbers so they can all start growing one cell at a time .. then use that fungal super tea to up the fungals for the finish.. they're the heavy decomposers and can get those water insolubles broken down.. be it rock minerals or softer, there's your big eaters right there.

A flowering ferment may be big too, I've Never felt the need for one yet, but with the SIP designs coming up, it might be something I consider myself for once.

That'd be my approach anyway, to give you a bit different perspective!

Blazing up the gravy,

DT

Thanks for the info. I'll get back to you with my results. I started light on the milk/water mix and figured I would make it stronger as needed. Plants are looking good otherwise. Lights come on later today so I'll see how they responded soon.