Amazon Raises Minimum Wage to $15 for All U.S. Employees

Buddha2525

Buddha2525

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
they should unionize
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Unions don't work when they're just extensions of corporation. Union bosses get paid even during strikes. Corporations hire scabs during the strike and pay them less than the union members from before the strike began.

Profit sharing and employee owned methods work. Also when done properly so do cooperatives.

Although getting rid of the capitalist class and having workers own their labor, rather than being wage slaves would be the best option.

 
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Buddha2525 said:
Unions don't work when they're just extensions of corporation. Union bosses get paid even during strikes. Corporations hire scabs during the strike and pay them less than the union members from before the strike began.

Profit sharing and employee owned methods work. Also when done properly so do cooperatives.

Although getting rid of the capitalist class and having workers own their labor, rather than being wage slaves would be the best option.
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Unions have been good for most. There are always whiners.
 
Buddha2525

Buddha2525

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Unions have been good for most. There are always whiners.
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Seniority leads to bumping until the least senior is bumped out of a job. Instead of solving the problem, unions place the blame on a tiered system on the shoulders of the employees rather than where it belongs, the greedy CEO. Besides one person losing a job, all the employees get partially fired.

These kinds of effects aren't taken into account when calculating unemployment numbers. When spread out, say one person gets bumped out of employment, but the rest of the 100 left get a 5% reduction in pay for the "privilege" of bumping into a lower wage position. The net effect is 21 employees of less pay the company distributes to its workers.

As part of union rules they're not allowed to talk about the effects of their new bump.

Who's that a win for? The union members? Accounts payable on the books stays the same whether 21 or 1 get fired. But the PR nightmare of firing 21 as compared to one is manageable. Press releases never talk about losing pay especially seemingly small cuts, so the CEO and union bosses collusion stays secret from the public.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Buddha2525 said:
Seniority leads to bumping until the least senior is bumped out of a job. Instead of solving the problem, unions place the blame on a tiered system on the shoulders of the employees rather than where it belongs, the greedy CEO. Besides one person losing a job, all the employees get partially fired.

These kinds of effects aren't taken into account when calculating unemployment numbers. When spread out, say one person gets bumped out of employment, but the rest of the 100 left get a 5% reduction in pay for the "privilege" of bumping into a lower wage position. The net effect is 21 employees of less pay the company distributes to its workers.

As part of union rules they're not allowed to talk about the effects of their new bump.

Who's that a win for? The union members? Accounts payable on the books stays the same whether 21 or 1 get fired. But the PR nightmare of firing 21 as compared to one is manageable. Press releases never talk about losing pay especially seemingly small cuts, so the CEO and union bosses collusion stays secret from the public.
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you are good at talking yourself into failure.
 
Buddha2525

Buddha2525

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
you are good at talking yourself into failure.
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I'm doing just fine in life. Is it wrong to look out for all sides of the American family? I'm willing to give up some of my good fortune, but not at the expense of you getting to decide who's worthy of Robin Hood redistribution. If that sort of thing happens, like I think it should, we don't hand it out in an Olympic Oppression competition.

We need to move on. Once that happens we should all fight the opressors from the mixed race Mark Cuban, Black woman Oprah Winfrey, to the white Bill Gates. Greed doesn't care about race no matter how much you say otherwise.

A black female by the name of Oprah Winfrey has more say how our county does things than all the toothless Republican "white male rape culture patriarchy" appalachians combined because money talks.

You're correct rights shouldn't be given, but that's not how life works, and it's a terrible thing. But saying one person has life worse because of their complexion isn't solving anything but pissing off those appalachian voters who can as a block vote tell you to fuck yourself, and did by giving you the finger, Trump.

If you only stopped with your hate and included everyone in your movement its goals would get reached quicker, rather than demand your people get theirs first. Also you risk the rich becoming against you even more once more of them are your kind. Then you'll say, "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
 
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Buddha2525

Buddha2525

Well-Known Member
blu3bird said:
Will the workers get 40 hours/week though? Possible O/T?
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That's the other problem. Will their hours get cut? Will others get fired? Unless those pay increases come from Bezos himself and the rest of his cronies, it means nothing.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Buddha2525 said:
I'm doing just fine in life. Is it wrong to look out for all sides of the American family? I'm willing to give up some of my good fortune, but not at the expense of you getting to decide who's worthy of Robin Hood redistribution. If that sort of thing happens, like I think it should, we don't hand it out in an Olympic Oppression competition.

We need to move on. Once that happens we should all fight the opressors from the mixed race Mark Cuban, Black woman Oprah Winfrey, to the white Bill Gates. Greed doesn't care about race no matter how much you say otherwise.

A black female by the name of Oprah Winfrey has more say how our county does things than all the toothless Republican "white male rape culture patriarchy" appalachians combined because money talks.

You're correct rights shouldn't be given, but that's not how life works, and it's a terrible thing. But saying one person has life worse because of their complexion isn't solving anything but pissing off those appalachian voters who can as a block vote tell you to fuck yourself, and did by giving you the finger, Trump.

If you only stopped with your hate and included everyone in your movement its goals would get reached quicker, rather than demand your people get theirs first. Also you risk the rich becoming against you even more once more of them are your kind. Then you'll say, "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
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Unions have been good for a lot of people. You've bought into the rich man's propaganda. There is no other institution that can face down a billionaire. The workers at Amazon would benefit greatly from collective bargaining.
 
blu3bird

blu3bird

Well-Known Member
Buddha2525 said:
That's the other problem. Will their hours get cut? Will others get fired? Unless those pay increases come from Bezos himself and the rest of his cronies, it means nothing.
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Wonder if that's what will happen is everybody gets their $15 an hour but now only part time hours?
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Buddha2525 said:
I'm doing just fine in life. Is it wrong to look out for all sides of the American family? I'm willing to give up some of my good fortune, but not at the expense of you getting to decide who's worthy of Robin Hood redistribution. If that sort of thing happens, like I think it should, we don't hand it out in an Olympic Oppression competition.

We need to move on. Once that happens we should all fight the opressors from the mixed race Mark Cuban, Black woman Oprah Winfrey, to the white Bill Gates. Greed doesn't care about race no matter how much you say otherwise.

A black female by the name of Oprah Winfrey has more say how our county does things than all the toothless Republican "white male rape culture patriarchy" appalachians combined because money talks.

You're correct rights shouldn't be given, but that's not how life works, and it's a terrible thing. But saying one person has life worse because of their complexion isn't solving anything but pissing off those appalachian voters who can as a block vote tell you to fuck yourself, and did by giving you the finger, Trump.

If you only stopped with your hate and included everyone in your movement its goals would get reached quicker, rather than demand your people get theirs first. Also you risk the rich becoming against you even more once more of them are your kind. Then you'll say, "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
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Cool manifesto on why racism isn't actually a thing that exists and shouldn't be mentioned.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
dandyrandy said:
Amazon made much more on tax savings than the cost of raises. The real goal is to get an increase in minimum wage. They can afford it.
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That is irrelevant. Bezos, like pretty much every other billionaire, fully intended to keep it all.

If not for a fucking Senator with balls going after him, calling him out, causing him a public relations nightmare, Bezos wouldn't have done shit.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
That is irrelevant. Bezos, like pretty much every other billionaire, fully intended to keep it all.

If not for a fucking Senator with balls going after him, calling him out, causing him a public relations nightmare, Bezos wouldn't have done shit.
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You sound like a rump follower now. Bezos does everything for profit. That's why he's rich and you're not. Public opinion may have been a small part but not the driving force. Just like trump.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
dandyrandy said:
You sound like a rump follower now. Bezos does everything for profit. That's why he's rich and you're not. Public opinion may have been a small part but not the driving force. Just like trump.
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If you think for one moment that Bezos would have done this out of the goodness of his own heart, you're delusional. He did it for one reason only: he was actually suffering a public relations nightmare. He paid to get rid of it, nothing more.

If not for Bernie and that entire campaign of mobilizing workers agaisnt him, Bezos would never have done a damn thing. To say otherwise and that he eventually did it all out of the goodness of his own heart is simply stupid on a unprecedented level.

And no, I'm not rich. But I don't want for anything either. In fact, if I were told right now to go buy anything I want, I wouldn't know what to do as I have no real need or desire for anything.

That, to me, is the very definition of success.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Why do you take a good thing like people getting a raise and fuck it up with fake news? It was Bezos who made this happen. I guess we should be thanking him but I just can't do that. No mention of Sanders in the bit of fluff you linked us to. Trump could legitimately claim more responsibility for this than Sanders because it was his tax bill that made this easier to do.

Sanders has not gotten nothing done. He managed to get some post offices renamed and some solar water heaters installed on some govt. buildings. It's not that he's done nothing, I just don't think hes done enough since becoming Senator to show he's worthy of becoming president.

He submitted a $15 minimum wage bill last year. Why isn't it the law of the land already? Also, how is that universal health care plan doing? It was submitted two years ago, wasn't it?
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why do you hate bernie so much?
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
This will make Amazon better and more profitable so that whole argument about how Jeff Bezos is only doing this to avoid criticism is going to fall flat. Amazon does what is best for Amazon because that is what benefits shareholders. This is going to benefit the shareholders. It has absolutely nothing to do with Bernard Sanders or his asinine cult of mouth breathing (and often completely racist) followers. Amazon pays its employees more than it is legally obligated to pay them because ultimately that will make it a better and yes, even more profitable company.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
This will make Amazon better and more profitable so that whole argument about how Jeff Bezos is only doing this to avoid criticism is going to fall flat.
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When they raise the price of Prime from 99 dollars to 119 dollars per year in a month or so, I'll remember you said that.
 
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