Chemistry Discussion Thread

Yeah, LSD synthesis is a pretty hefty procedure. Good LSD synthesis takes good instruments and the proper technique (with experience with said technique) for the end product to come out right without any harmful biproducts in your end product. I've seen several procedures for LSD synth and it's not exactly something you can throw down on paper in an hour and call it good. The compounds needed from a straight synthesis POV are not easily obtainable and some can throw up red flags depending on the source. Some think it's alot more simple to just extract an ergot derivative from the Ergot fungi and begin synthesis from there. However, that would require the fungi itself to be colonized in the laboratory itself to be used for extractions. So, Mr. Duck, my question for you sir is what would be the pro's and con's to both synthesis'? What would be preferred? If one was to obtain an already colonized Ergot fungi colony, wouldn't that be a preferred way to begin synthesis after you obtain the ergotamine tartrate from the fungi?
 
MrEDuck said:
Ndanger MDMA varies in color because of impurities, like any other substance. It doesn't take much to change the color of most drugs. Also brown can be better than tan, but moon rocks will always be better than the others. But not by much nessascarily. You can have 97% pure Molly that's brown. The color usually means the chemist either wasn't very skilled or was too lazy to do a decent wash and/or recrystallization.
I've never seen sand so I can't say anything about it. All my experience with Molly is with moonrocks. Pink or green is most likely from a metal impurity.
On the topic of MDMA I saw some data recently that shows that some of the mercury used in an Al/Hg amalgam stays in the product. I suggest we all get tested for mercury exposure sooner than later.
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I thought so!

Thanks for the thorough explanation. The Sand is indeed a rare variety. The Sand I possessed a little over a year ago was GCMS tested by one of my college buddies and it was over 90% pure. They're were only traces of unreacted MDP2P and H20 trapped inside the molecular lattice. The potency of the Sand is pure FIRE. I wouldn't account the color of the Sand due to the skill level of the chemist; however more so, of a shortcut. Yes, I heard small traces of mercury could be left in the end product but the amounts would be so minuscule to be detected... although, overtime it could present a problem.
 
canndo said:
there are several levels of danger in many non-professional endeavors - of course there is the preservation of one's skin, eyesight, fingers, hands, limbs, hair and the like. Another is far more incidious. Many reagents are carcinogenic - some monsterously so. Some of these chemicals can be absorbed in a variety of ways from touch to inhalation, some, are simply not washed out by the experimenter who is anxious not to lose his yield. In that case he is eating and offering to his friends something that could be damaging 10 or 20 years down the road. It might not seem so at the moment, but even the creation of some marvelous and novel high is not worth losing a liver or kidney over the experience.
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No arguments. I agree in every sense of the word!

That's why when talking about extractions and chemical synthesis safety has to be addressed first. Every Chemistry book you open when it deals with laboratory settings it addresses safety first. I made that very clear to MrEDuck. The safety of course is first bestowed on the chemist to preserve his/her livelihood. As you pointed out, if the chemical synthesis is not formulated properly or a certain solvent or acid is not recrystallized properly you can ingest impurities that might hurt you down the road.

One good example of this is in the case of PMA (Para-Methoxyamphetamine) which essentially uses the same oils as MDMA as starting materials. However, instead of the chemist extracting sassafras they extract incredible amounts of anethole from anise and fennel, due to safrole being a more limited starting material to get ahold of. The end result is deadly as PMA reverses the role of MAO-B inhibitors which incredibly increases body temperature and is blamed for the cause of serotonin syndrome.
 
Dudeomg1 you obviously aren't looking very hard. Woodward's synthesis: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.acid.woodward.html
Another more recent synthesis. Truly beautiful chemistry: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.hendrickson.html
Also you don't have access to what you need to crank out LSD. I know you don't because if you had access to a lab you could make LSD in you would know how to look it up in a journal. It's in fucking TiHKAL. There should be no problem finding these.
To anyone who is here to learn recipes for synths in hopes of making your own drugs and having an unending supply of rare psychs or becoming rich don't try this at home. The first LSD synth I posted uses hydrazine. A compound that is over 90% nitrogen by weight, and has a nitrogen nitrogen single bond. Translation it's a ticking time bomb that you didn't set. I won't go so far as saying I won't use it, I have, but trust and believe I look real hard for an alternative. And that's the thing about these syntheses, many use some nasty chemicals. And they don't warn you, because they're written for readers who either know what they are or know to look them up. If you want to learn to make drugs there are hundreds of chemistry programs. Learn to do labwork. This isn't baking. No one dies in a baking accident. Except in Into the Woods only he didn't. People do die in lab accidents, or when a synth gets fucked up and you make a poison. It even happens to chemists some times. Ever hear of MPTP? A journal article will say 5g of AlCl3 was added to 100mL solvent. You think you should dump it in all at once? Why doesn't it say slowly add, because you don't make it out of first year organic without knowing that. And there's a good chance you'll store it into your brain forever because you remember fleeing the giant cloud of HCl gas that got generated when some idiot thought they could just dump it in.
 
dudeomg1 said:
nice i have never found anywhere on the web that actually explains how to make lsd even assuming you have a proper chemistry set which i do have access to ,as well as an array of chemicals, myself i just couldn’t tell my teacher what i was making he thinks im pretty responsible though so he pretty much lets me do what i want
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Not to burst your bubble but ergotamine and other ergot related compounds are strictly watch. Sure the glassware might be the easiest part. But, finding a good claviceps specimen is the hardest thing to obtain. If your instructor had a brain in his skull he'll know you weren't conducting any old little chemistry experiment. Great LSD takes precision and analytical equipment such as HPLC and GCMS readily available.
 
MrEDuck said:
Dudeomg1 you obviously aren't looking very hard. Woodward's synthesis: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.acid.woodward.html
Another more recent synthesis. Truly beautiful chemistry: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.hendrickson.html
Also you don't have access to what you need to crank out LSD. I know you don't because if you had access to a lab you could make LSD in you would know how to look it up in a journal. It's in fucking TiHKAL. There should be no problem finding these.
To anyone who is here to learn recipes for synths in hopes of making your own drugs and having an unending supply of rare psychs or becoming rich don't try this at home. The first LSD synth I posted uses hydrazine. A compound that is over 90% nitrogen by weight, and has a nitrogen nitrogen single bond. Translation it's a ticking time bomb that you didn't set. I won't go so far as saying I won't use it, I have, but trust and believe I look real hard for an alternative. And that's the thing about these syntheses, many use some nasty chemicals. And they don't warn you, because they're written for readers who either know what they are or know to look them up. If you want to learn to make drugs there are hundreds of chemistry programs. Learn to do labwork. This isn't baking. No one dies in a baking accident. Except in Into the Woods only he didn't. People do die in lab accidents, or when a synth gets fucked up and you make a poison. It even happens to chemists some times. Ever hear of MPTP? A journal article will say 5g of AlCl3 was added to 100mL solvent. You think you should dump it in all at once? Why doesn't it say slowly add, because you don't make it out of first year organic without knowing that. And there's a good chance you'll store it into your brain forever because you remember fleeing the giant cloud of HCl gas that got generated when some idiot thought they could just dump it in.
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I couldn't agree more. I have well over $5,000 invested into lab safety ware, lab equipment, emergency wash stations, and an off site private area that is only used for "labs" and I have barely scraped the surface for what it really /needs/. I had a friend in lab that mixed 1500 ml of distilled H2O INTO a beaker of 100mg NaOH. Let's just say it ended in a very bad volcano-like eruption that damaged alot of stuff and caused a few bad chemical burns. Everything I post and every question I ask is for mine and everyone else's educational purposes ONLY. I'm an information sponge. I love knowledge! :D
 
Tmac4302 said:
I couldn't agree more. I have well over $5,000 invested into lab safety ware, lab equipment, emergency wash stations, and an off site private area that is only used for "labs" and I have barely scraped the surface for what it really /needs/. I had a friend in lab that mixed 1500 ml of distilled H2O INTO a beaker of 100mg NaOH. Let's just say it ended in a very bad volcano-like eruption that damaged alot of stuff and caused a few bad chemical burns. Everything I post and every question I ask is for mine and everyone else's educational purposes ONLY. I'm an information sponge. I love knowledge! :D
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Are you sure it wasn't 100g of NaOH? 100mg wouldn't have release enough heat to boil 2mL of cold water. 100g would be just like you described with minor difference, you didn't mention the other people in the lab beating him to death. Or even severely. Remember to change your eyewash stations water frequently, with double distilled water if possible.
 
ndangerspecimen101 said:
No arguments. I agree in every sense of the word!

That's why when talking about extractions and chemical synthesis safety has to be addressed first. Every Chemistry book you open when it deals with laboratory settings it addresses safety first. I made that very clear to MrEDuck. The safety of course is first bestowed on the chemist to preserve his/her livelihood. As you pointed out, if the chemical synthesis is not formulated properly or a certain solvent or acid is not recrystallized properly you can ingest impurities that might hurt you down the road.

One good example of this is in the case of PMA (Para-Methoxyamphetamine) which essentially uses the same oils as MDMA as starting materials. However, instead of the chemist extracting sassafras they extract incredible amounts of anethole from anise and fennel, due to safrole being a more limited starting material to get ahold of. The end result is deadly as PMA reverses the role of MAO-B inhibitors which incredibly increases body temperature and is blamed for the cause of serotonin syndrome.
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I just wanted to point out that the immediate dangers were not all that existed, everyone fears blowing themselves up or blinding themselves, it takes some wisdom to fear other things - such as o-toluidine for example and bladder cancer.
 
MrD. Merits and pitfalls of Brightstar's sythnthisis? how about Dr. Drool's? Is there a one pot synth or was that just a drug addled dream? oh so many many questions.
 
MrEDuck said:
Are you sure it wasn't 100g of NaOH? 100mg wouldn't have release enough heat to boil 2mL of cold water. 100g would be just like you described with minor difference, you didn't mention the other people in the lab beating him to death. Or even severely. Remember to change your eyewash stations water frequently, with double distilled water if possible.
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Looks like my fingers got carried away. A little medicated atm. Lolz I meant 100g. We weren't too happy with him. Needless to say, for our sanity, he was removed from the premise very quickly. I have that and the shower station feeding off of the same recirculation reservoir so I don't need to change it out frequently, per say, but I do change the water out before each time I work in the lab (with either double or triple distilled H2O. What ever I am able to procure atm.) Minus very simple essential oil distillations. I trust my goggles enough for procedures of the same sort.
 
Sorry for being MIA for most of today. My immune system decided to launch a new attack in it's ongoing rebellion. Spent most of the day having a fever of 39.5-40.0°C. That's after taking antipyretics. It's lower now, or at least the ceiling stopped sparkling.
Ndanger I am planning on doing a big post on LSD synth soon and I will go over the ET+base->LSA + N(ET)2 and a few total synths. Including both I linked to earlier. Woodwards will be gone over solely because he is RB Woodward and his work won him a Nobel and he should have shared Wilkonsons and he definetly would have shared the prize with Hoffman and Fukai for the Woodward-Hoffman rules. People who won or deserved to win two are rare indeed. Three is unheard of. The man deduced the structure of B-12 without the aid of spectroscopy (50s era IR and NMR don't count for a molecule like that). I'll end my hero worship here.
Canndo, that bit of knowledge about o-toluidine is pretty specific and I can only think of one drug made from it. You holding out with a lost ancient treasure?
there's no good one pot MDMA synth I'm aware of, but I'll look. I'm looking at Bright Star and Dr Drool's synths to refresh my memory now. Expect a post in an hour or so. Unless my fever comes back. Then expect some weird shit.
 
MrEDuck said:
Sorry for being MIA for most of today. My immune system decided to launch a new attack in it's ongoing rebellion. Spent most of the day having a fever of 39.5-40.0°C. That's after taking antipyretics. It's lower now, or at least the ceiling stopped sparkling.
Ndanger I am planning on doing a big post on LSD synth soon and I will go over the ET+base->LSA + N(ET)2 and a few total synths. Including both I linked to earlier. Woodwards will be gone over solely because he is RB Woodward and his work won him a Nobel and he should have shared Wilkonsons and he definetly would have shared the prize with Hoffman and Fukai for the Woodward-Hoffman rules. People who won or deserved to win two are rare indeed. Three is unheard of. The man deduced the structure of B-12 without the aid of spectroscopy (50s era IR and NMR don't count for a molecule like that). I'll end my hero worship here.
Canndo, that bit of knowledge about o-toluidine is pretty specific and I can only think of one drug made from it. You holding out with a lost ancient treasure?
there's no good one pot MDMA synth I'm aware of, but I'll look. I'm looking at Bright Star and Dr Drool's synths to refresh my memory now. Expect a post in an hour or so. Unless my fever comes back. Then expect some weird shit.
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My GOD man, stay well. I have been at the feet of chemsitry folk for years and they rarely deigned to acknowlege my posts. We shan't speak of ortho-toluidine just yet, but....

I am curious about the oil that smells of root beer and candy shops.
 
canndo said:
My GOD man, stay well. I have been at the feet of chemsitry folk for years and they rarely deigned to acknowlege my posts. We shan't speak of ortho-toluidine just yet, but....

I am curious about the oil that smells of root beer and candy shops.
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You read my mind! :D

But, let's not ponder on sassafras too much. But, I don't mind talking about "root beer floats!" ​:lol:
 
There is something to be said for single malt scotch and a Hoyo D Monterey robusto. Ndanger.
 
Some notes about MDMA synthesis. Let's start with Bright Star. It's a workable synth, but it does have it's faults. First would be the use of peanut oil. Get a real high temp silicone oil. No one watches them and they don't smoke and don't have a habit of splattering (200°C+ oil hurts like a mofo, or hellfire as a research advisor of mine said). Next up is the methylamine from formaldehyde and ammonia. Jesus fucking Christ do not use this procedure as written. When it gets to the point where you start pulling vacuum turn the heat off and let it cool a minimum of 50°C. Never turn vacuum on a hot distillation no matter how careful you think you are. I used to do analytical distillations when I worked in alt fuel petrochemical research. The first fraction was done at atmospheric pressure, and the. You cooled it before turning on the vacuum, at least that's what you do if you don't want to see the mother of all bbumps, ruin your distillation and make one hell of a mess.
Next what's up with using DCM as a solvent? Yuck, find a substitute. Also look into alternatives to DMF for the Wacker oxidation. That's some toxic shit. In the distillation don't use vacuum for the first fraction. Which should not be DCM because don't use halogenated organics as solvents if you can avoid it. Finally I don't care if you are Woodward himself recrystallize that shit. It was just sitting in a solution of mercury. If you don't recrystallize it and give it to another person you deserve to be shot in the genitals.
So let's look at dr Drool's synth. This also starts with Safrole and uses DCM. Apparently the Hive died because everyone got cancer (seriously halogenated organics are bad). Why would someone vacuum distill nitromethane? You're gonna lose half of it to your poor pumps oil. If something boils at <150°C do an atmospheric distillation.
OMG a ziplock bag has no place around chemicals. Rh where's the note saying don't do this. The reductive ammination looks sound. Do these guys have something against recrystallization? Does that ziplock bag give it some extra kick.
So both synths are reasonable, provided some changes are made for the sake of safety (sanity?). Except that safrole is harder to get your hands on than a pig in a lube factory. So how do we get around this? We can make it ourselves of course. Back in the late nineties bulk sassafras oil was getting more difficult to obtain. Needless to say this was a major problem for some people. Well it turns out that if you heat allylcatechol sufficiently (~250°C IIRC) it thermally rearranges to to 1-allyl-3,4dihydroxybenzene. That's a methylene bridge away from being safrole. Hydroxy groups are pretty good nucleophiles, and deprotonation only makes em better. So it turns out dihalomethanes have a use in MDMA synth. Just as reagents, not solvents. DBM or DIM (Cl is a crap leaving group) mixed with your allylcatechol and some base and wala, you have safrole.
Sorry it took me a few days to get this posted. I've felt terrible the last few days :(
 
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