Chemistry Discussion Thread

[VLRD.Kush]

dont worry is was just a question, i also have two more for you if
you dont mind, hypetheticaly speaking, if a friend gave me tbis blotter and told me
that each square is equivelent to 2 hits, what would be a guesstimate range of that
dosage in ug? also could we discuss the synthesis of lsd.. thank you for you time mr educk
smokey

a "normal dose" should be about 60-120ug, but who's to say normal for one guy is the same as another... Based off of purely guessing, I'd say you have some 150-MAYBE 200 ug blotter

 

[MrEDuck]

Anywhere between 50ug and 250ug. One of the reasons Bear became an acid cook was he wanted to know what he was taking and the dose. I'll try to remember to look for the images I need to discuss the synthesis of lysergic acid.

 

[smokeytokeybear]

thanks for yhe feedback mr educk, and vlrd kush..
reason being is i have aqquired so very nice tyedye blotter, and im somewhat exp.
have done it 2 xs. but my girlfriend has only done mushrooms one time at a 4.5 g dose.
and never any lsd, so im trying to decide what she can handle, i on the other hand have done
mushrooms at minimal a 100 times, and at alot higher than 4.5 gs. i will be doing 2 so called double
hits

 

[smokeytokeybear]

and thanks again for the future reply od lsd synthesis mr educk.

 

[cannabineer]

Anywhere between 50ug and 250ug. One of the reasons Bear became an acid cook was he wanted to know what he was taking and the dose. I'll try to remember to look for the images I need to discuss the synthesis of lysergic acid.

iirc the bottleneck is supply of ergot alkaloid. They're watched more closely than the Sultan's 12-year-old daughter. The hardcore way to go is to culture Claviceps, extract it and then rectify out the lysergic acid. The rest (condensation) is fairly straightforward (but a nailbiter considering the cost and rarity of the feeedstock) if one has some peptide-style experience ... cn

 

[MrEDuck]

Ergot alkaloids are a bitch to source. The actual experimental bit of hydrolyzing the ergotamine and then forming the peptide bond is pretty easy, especially with peptide coupling reagents meaning that you don't need stuff like SOCl2 or POCl3 or worse anhydrous hydrazine. The needing to work in near dark is pretty beat though.

 

[contraptionated]

Let us talk about rechrystalizing MDMA then, how would one go about such a thing?

7ml/gm of boiling acetonitrile. That's 7 ml of methyl cyanide for each gram of your e. I'm pretty sure the acetonitrile boils around 80 C. Don't ask me how I know this P.S. let it cool down slow for 2 hours (approximately) then transfer to the fridge. Keep it there for an hour. Then to the freezer for an hour. Filter it with a 4 or 6 cfm yellow jacket vacuum pump over a coffee filter, big ol ceramic course perforated Buchner with the black rubber bung attached to a 1000 ml filter flask and use a good 2 foot length of Tygon vacuum tubing (3/8" I.D.) connected between the side arm of the filter flask and the inlet of the vacuum pump. Once everything is set up the way I described (with the contents of the re crystallization beaker in hand) don't forget that before you turn on the vacuum pump that acetonitrile is flammable (so that means you also need to use a proper magnetic hot plate stirrer to get it boiling in the very first step in the beginning of the process) so you will have to vent the exhaust of your yellow jacket pump into a proper carbon fan/filter combo which exits outdoors. Now make sure you lower a piece of flex duct from the boxed fan/filter combo over the exhaust vent of the vacuum pump and turn on the fan and then the vacuum pump. Now, after you safely decanted and disposed (or put aside for recycling) the excess acetonitrile liquid that was floating on top of the re crystallized e , now you may finally transfer what is mostly mdma and just a little methyl cyanide (that will be sucked through the coffee filter while the e remains in the coffee filter) . Pour the chilled 50 mL aliquot (or two ) over the e if your anal, if not skip this step. Properly shutdown your vacuum pump after the e appears dry (very important to shut it down properly because you could create back flow of fumes even if you put an extra filter flask between the vacuum pump and the Buchner) and leave the coffee filter out to dry for another hour. Got shards??

 

[MrEDuck]

Acetone or methyl ethyl ketone is probably more available than acetonitrile. Otherwise a great writeup. With acetone or MEK you need about 50mL/g of MDMA.

 

[GreenSummit]

what about using ergotamine tartrate pills as a source? they sell these OTC in mexico without a prescription. If these pills would work, it wouldnt be hard to source this at all trust me, ive brought loads of it home before because it works great on headaches but they dont sell it in the u.s. go figure.

 

[contraptionated]

I know I was off topic and I appreciate your input. My way (or I should say Shulgins way) is a bit expensive . From what I remember it was about 250 bucks a gallon and even though its available it sure is a ballsy decision to buy anything with the word "cyanide" in the description. Enough about the e, I haven't done acid or mescaline since I was 16... I'm way way past that age now and I wish I could do some acid again but I would never trust anybody around my neck of the woods if they told me they had it. I looked into the synth and I thought it was the most difficult thing one could ever attempt. E is a cakewalk compared to acid.

 

[contraptionated]

what about using ergotamine tartrate pills as a source? they sell these OTC in mexico without a prescription. If these pills would work, it wouldnt be hard to source this at all trust me, ive brought loads of it home before because it works great on headaches but they dont sell it in the u.s. go figure.

I'm looking into it. I never heard anybody mention the possibility of this starting material. Ill come back if I find something.(Rubbing hands together with a shit eating grin)

 

[smokeytokeybear]

hell yeah man. post results, lol ill be waiting

 

[MrEDuck]

Ergotamine from Cafergot can be used, but there's only 1mg of ET per pill. You would need a fuckload of them to have enough precursor to get a visible amount of product. Remember getting back 20% of theory is considered an outstanding yield in LSD synth. I think you'd be better off trying a total synthesis like one of these:
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.acid.woodward.html
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/lsd.cobalt.pdf
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.hendrickson.html

Only hydrogen cyanide and it's salts are poisons. Nitriles (organic cyanides) are no more poisonous than any other random liquid in a chemistry lab. Don't drink it and you'll be fine. KCN is so toxic if someone is poisoned with it you can get poisoned by giving them mouth to mouth!

 

[qwizoking]

well im finally getting around to it, so instead of making lsd. you could make cdlsa, what do ya think duck? ive made it twice now, immediate, more psychedelic and twice as potent as regular lysergamide without the side effects....oh and if you dont know what it is check my clsa/lsc thread(i cant put links) or google it,not much out there though

 

[MrEDuck]

I can't asy that I'm familiar with something caled cdlsa, could you give me a name that isn't an abbreviation?

 

[qwizoking]

yea thats why i suggested my thread.. its cinnamylidene lysergamide or more probable bislysergamide.

 

[qwizoking]

its a theoretical adduct of cinnamaldahyde and lsa

 

[BusyBee123]

It seems like a majority of the Sources that came out for honey oil enthusiasts wanting to buy sass/camphor oil were published in the late 90's and early 00's; few if any were updated in any sort of traceable fashion.

That being said, what are good precursors to look in the second decade of this new millenium? I would expect that even the camphor oils raise eyebrows these days, and I'm hesitant to just walk into an aromatherapy store and inquire without getting some second opinions.

I currently work in an inorganic lab that has a disgusting amount of regulated shit on the stock shelves without oversight, I'm sorta itching to put it to good use.

 

[2cimdma]

Shop for precursors in China. I have successfully bought many regulated chems there. Many companies will write whatever you want them to on the customs declaration form. I have never had a package intercepted by customs here in the US and only one package of psuedo-ephedrine(2.5kg) stopped in China. China customs gave it back to the company which promptly resent it and I received it 5 days later. But I've has many schedule 1 chems sent in from 50g.-5kg. packages.

 

[BusyBee123]

Many companies will write whatever you want them to on the customs declaration form.

Is this something that would require a bribe, or just append it to the "Additional comments" section? I'm hesitant to order Chinese, because I've seen many Chinese companies that purportedly sell some of the very complex and novel organometallics that my lab designs, and I doubt their honesty. Is it reliable enough for something like pure honey, or should I go ahead and get honey oil and refine it myself?

I actually have a few questions, hopefully Mr. Duck will bestow some wisdom as his comments on Brightstar/Drool's syntheses were what prompted me to do some more digging around.

1. In Strike's Total Synthesis II (1999) she talks about a modified Wacker procedure that skips the well-loved Al/Hg amalgam:

The method is basically an application of the Wacker oxidation except the the catalyst used is palladium acetate, the solvent is acetic acid or t-Bu alcohol and the oxygen source is the previously suggested hydrogen peroxide.

This method avoids the need for cupric chloride, so it'd be possible to reclaim the unhalogenated solvents, which is attractive. Also, the safrole->ketone reaction rate was on the magnitude of around a hundred grams of starting material per hour. If you have a copy of the text, it's around page 80...Thoughts on this method? If needed I can post the full rxn details.

2. What are the advantages/disadvantages of sodium iodide versus sodium metabisulfite for the purification of MDP-2P? Vogel does mention in his 5th edition that sodium iodide outperforms the bisulfite, but doesn't describe why. Is this just lab/time convenience?

3. In y'all's opinion, is fractional distillation ever really necessary in an MDMA synthesis? It seems like vacuum is just fine if you plan your procedure well, but if it wouldn't hurt...