joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
yeah, I woulda removed those lower budsites and maybe thinned a branch or two out. Either way.....
enjoy!
still better than buying it eh?
enjoy!
still better than buying it eh?
Defoliation Experiment - Side by Side Sister Clones
- Thread starter profterpen
- Start date
UncleReemis
Well-Known Member
Made my finger go all red
hurt like a bishhh. Ripped it off btw LOL
profterpen
New Member
Unless there is a yet unknown factor...
In plants, several biological functions ascribed to AO have been linked to the production of H2O2. Indeed, it has been suggested that important developmental and defence responses depend on the apoplastic production of H2O2 carried out by cell wall-localized CuAO and PAO through polyamine oxidation.
This is the reason for plant 004, I've been working on a topical treatment for cell repair. I've been using it for a year on the mothers I half. This experiment will put it to the test.
They call me Bunny
In plants, several biological functions ascribed to AO have been linked to the production of H2O2. Indeed, it has been suggested that important developmental and defence responses depend on the apoplastic production of H2O2 carried out by cell wall-localized CuAO and PAO through polyamine oxidation.
This is the reason for plant 004, I've been working on a topical treatment for cell repair. I've been using it for a year on the mothers I half. This experiment will put it to the test.
They call me Bunny
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
wut..........?
UncleReemis
Well-Known Member
I'd like to smoke a few fatties with you some day. Lol.
Cascadian
Well-Known Member
I don't think there is any anticipation about what will happen to the plant that is further from the light. It will yield less and will not surprise me at all. Of course this can not be a perfect experiment, but if an attempt is not made to equalize the lumens in an objective way it is a worthless endeavor/experiment IMO. I just want to see some kind of honest attempt, and making the lumens unequal for whatever reason will not prove or disprove anything. I think debating whether we should keep one plant further away form the light now is a better idea than introducing a "control" that is equal bottoms/unequal light... all that will do is continue the argument long into the future...this was su's point earlier. The thing you are missing is volume....Not just area. with a larger plant as the control will be the lumens wil be stretched more thin and penetration will wane.
we know this. So like I suggested...put one of each. One level bottom and one level top. If you don't care to look at the results to the level bottom that's up to you. I for one would like to see the results for both.
I still believe the biggest question at the moment is how to decide when to flower? and will the flowering cycles be staggered or not. Making the unfucked plants wait until the fucked plants are ready would be to put them at a disadvantage. If allowed to veg too long the unfucked plants will start to lose if no side lighting is added.
from what i've seen when flowering indoors with no side or supplemental lighting roughly 4 sq. ft is about right for full flower
so my question how is op going to deal with the size difference ?
edit: @ jesterdav....your plant looks sad bro
I think the experiment should be allowed to run it's course with equal lumens, if the yield is close then these details/points will matter more. If the yield is not even close then it is a whole different situation.
I for one do not think that defoliating will increase yields, but I don't want to introduce bias or any unfair variable to see that point proven either.
neo12345
Well-Known Member
"An Advanced Study: The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis
by Robert Connell Clarke
Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.
In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.
Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guessing that maybe, just possibly he might have been guessing? He's had 33 years since he wrote that in 1981 to do the experiment, can we see that instead?
by Robert Connell Clarke
Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.
In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.
Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm guessing that maybe, just possibly he might have been guessing? He's had 33 years since he wrote that in 1981 to do the experiment, can we see that instead?
neo12345
Well-Known Member
That's not been the case in my experience, the plants seem to exhibit a growth spurt after defoliation. I did post some pictures on page 2 I think, to show this.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
I think I covered my opinion on this several times.
oh and neo, misqouting is not allowed. reported
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
neo starts his morning
and has lunch
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
bwhahahahaha! lol
nice
nice
- You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chuck estevez again.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
[h=1]Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”[/h]
― George Carlin
― George Carlin
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
The reason he hasnt done an experiment like this is he has been busy writing an epic book about the origins of marijuan. Plus he pretty well explained that removing the part of the plant that is responsible for growth that it would not be beneficial in MOST instances. The time old defol argument that we grow buds not leaves has never landed with me. But I have never done it personally Im going to try it once for if no other reason to say i have done it and got *blank * results from doing so. Try to be as unbiased as possible and give it a shot on some 12/12 from seed fem nirvanas i have sitting around. 4 different strains 16 total plants, wont start for a few more weeks. The plants should be pretty similar since its nirvana fems (consistently shit quality buds compared to other breeders for the record) just worried about hermans. Strains will be Blue Mystic, Master Kush, White Rhino, and Raspberry Cough so that way 2 indica dom strains and 2 sativa doms.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
damn, I didn't think I posted anything that bad sorry rollie
edit: and i'm too stoned to remember what those posts were lol.
well...i'll try to cool it
sorry rollieedit: and i'm too stoned to remember what those posts were lol.
well...i'll try to cool it
UncleReemis
Well-Known Member
I'm glad to see this experiment is becoming more broad. The original idea was to have upwards of 100 members doing this experiment side by side. :S but that would be even more chaotic I think.
joe macclennan
Well-Known Member
lol. I just want to see it done as fairly as possible. Also just giving my ideas on flowering periods.
I still haven't seen op discuss.....
I still haven't seen op discuss.....
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
i read this entire thread because of this single post.damn, I didn't think I posted anything that bad
edit: and i'm too stoned to remember what those posts were lol.
well...i'll try to cool it
you rok joe...
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
i'd say do 10 plants, all cuts, same mom, separate rooms, own lights, alter nutes how you will if the chopped up victims need less to avoid burning. keep canopy level in each room respectively. harvest all simultaneously. dry, weigh, post, discuss.