defoliation? yes/no and techniques

Sativied said:

@thumb easy: I like to stick to the facts rather than opinions, plenty of valid arguments to leave all leaves on the plant, zero valid arguments to remove them.

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Well I'm the very same here but have a different side of the coin. I have a circle of growers 14 and growing(no pun intended) and we banded together for exactly this reason. Its easy to say your shit don't work when there is only one of you but when the majority of experienced growers can replicate results...well that speaks volumes. All of my growers are indoors, all of my growers prune to some degree for circulation(just a good practice) and over half top and defoliate. Guess what? The boys that keep a clean organized well groomed rooms easily put out 25-30% more a year...That's the facts from over 3 years of combined results. Some people will refuse to go through the extra work though or for that matter learn how to do these techniques properly.

@Fresh 2 De@th: You are so far below me (see bottom layers of image below) that I shouldn't be replying to your childish behavior....People like you put the T in trollitup. Read my previous posts in Tribute to UB and almighty leaf threads and you can see where I get my facts, real solid undeniable facts. And that fortunately includes UncleBen too. He may seem sexually attractive to you, I don't share your view on that either, to me he's just an other source of sound information and experience. I've grown to respect the guy for taking the time to prevent the online grow community being taken over by trolls like yourself. It's kinda like seeing people eat their own shit, can't let that shit go...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg/500px-Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg.png

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:

but when the majority of experienced growers can replicate results...well that speaks volumes.

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Exactly. Just as much as the opposite. Tap into a sane part of your brain for a sec and ask yourself: if defoliation would result in 25-30% more yields and would be so easy to replicate... ffs can't believe I'm even typing this...

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:

Well I'm the very same here

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Well that seems unlikely but then I won't need to explain how your "story" is not more than that, a story. Pics or it didn't happen? Logs or it doesn't mean shit... 14 different growers, 14 different setups, 14 different strains, 14 different locations, 14 different environments, 14 different feeding habits, 14 other things I could mention that will more than likely have tainted the test. Don't get me wrong, not saying your lying, not saying you are wrong, but do get my point please:

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:

That's the facts from over 3 years of combined results.

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If I told you a story about the opposite, show you one of the best growers I know that pulled over 1.2GPW and tried defoliating and pulled 0.64GPW, would that make it 'facts' for you? I'm pretty sure we're not alike cause I would never make up a story and present it as facts with ZERO PROOF to substantiate my claims. The difference between you and me is when I talk like that, I can back it up.

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:

Its easy to say your shit don't work

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Pretty sure I didn't say that. Look in the mirror buddy, it's easy to say your shit works without any proof.

Jack, there's like a dozen things you should improve before you even think about 'alternative' hocus-pocus methods to increase your yield.

And other asshats: grow up. Let me give you a sincere tip. Imagine you got a family with a bunch of kids. Not too many jobs around, economy sucks, kids are starving and sick. Someone offers you a job. Asks you to find you whether defoliation as a standard method to increase yields on cannabis plants is a valid technique. Fuck it up and you'll get fired. I.o.w. real life, professional. No wishful-thinking this time. Would you do some research, list the pros (none) and cons (many), separate facts from fiction? Or are you just going to bla bla bla bla bla out your ass?

Keep playing with your plants all you want, but what's the point of spreading all the false info while none of you fuckers can substantiate with valid arguments? Don't you get it? You can't even have a normal discussion with each other, do you really think you're going to beat universities, real pro farmers, scientists and researches to finding a technique that results in 30% more yield.

Fresh 2 De@th said:

lets get it right Fresh SR., i am just one of the girls pointing out my flawed and contradictory bullshit.

it's truly funny, because the shit that I say makes everyone laugh there asses off.

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fixed it for you

here another plant defoliation in early flower








View attachment 2826843

sativied you have no ideal of the yields I can pull with the defoliation technique

jacksthc said:

I live in the uk so I only stay up till about 12am my time

The facts are very simple here, the question is defoliation? yes/no and techniques

1. can defoliation work ? Hi

well I have shown you a large bushy plants with respectable buds on after defoliation, so the answer is yes

2. is defoliation the best technique and gives you the best yield ?

this is down to the skill of the grower as defoliation can give you great yield and poor if done wrong and this is no different to topping, lst, fim, super cropping, monster cropping, re veg, I have done them all over the years and every technique has to be done right to get the results you want, I have found a simple technique and it gives me control over the way the plant grows
but you do need a little more veg time but it works on every plant I have tried

I can have the plant 2ft wide or 6ft wide and have the amount of branches on the plant I want, full control over the canopy height ( can have it 12" or 3ft), a great way to do a perpetual scrog, but whats the point putting a guide on here when so many growers are against different techniques

the picture of my scrog with 6 plant, only had 6 days under the screen in the flower room before I turn over to 12/12, did all the training in veg and the screen just held the buds in place, the buds where 18" above the screen so I didn't need any veg time under the screen.

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Thank you for you honest opinion . .


1000 ways to skin a cat


So if defoulatukn is not your way
Get the fuck out of here and I went and looked at UB's grows /plants .. . .looks like weed . ..and not any of prefer to smoke . ..


Does that make his weed bad. . .. nope . . .does that make delights weed great nope

Some seem to have. Vested interest in this discussion, where is the rich white man to blame

jacksthc said:

here another plant defoliation in early flower








View attachment 2826842View attachment 2826843View attachment 2826844

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very nice, i guess the lames will find something else to dispute or discredit your proof. from what i've always read, pics or it didn't happen, but i guess that doesn't apply anymore.

Sativied said:

@Fresh 2 De@th: You are so far below me (see bottom layers of image below) that I shouldn't be replying to your childish behavior....People like you put the T in trollitup. Read my previous posts in Tribute to UB and almighty leaf threads and you can see where I get my facts, real solid undeniable facts. And that fortunately includes UncleBen too. He may seem sexually attractive to you, I don't share your view on that either, to me he's just an other source of sound information and experience. I've grown to respect the guy for taking the time to prevent the online grow community being taken over by trolls like yourself. It's kinda like seeing people eat their own shit, can't let that shit go...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg/500px-Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement1.svg.png


Exactly. Just as much as the opposite. Tap into a sane part of your brain for a sec and ask yourself: if defoliation would result in 25-30% more yields and would be so easy to replicate... ffs can't believe I'm even typing this...

Well that seems unlikely but then I won't need to explain how your "story" is not more than that, a story. Pics or it didn't happen? Logs or it doesn't mean shit... 14 different growers, 14 different setups, 14 different strains, 14 different locations, 14 different environments, 14 different feeding habits, 14 other things I could mention that will more than likely have tainted the test. Don't get me wrong, not saying your lying, not saying you are wrong, but do get my point please:

If I told you a story about the opposite, show you one of the best growers I know that pulled over 1.2GPW and tried defoliating and pulled 0.64GPW, would that make it 'facts' for you? I'm pretty sure we're not alike cause I would never make up a story and present it as facts with ZERO PROOF to substantiate my claims. The difference between you and me is when I talk like that, I can back it up.

Pretty sure I didn't say that. Look in the mirror buddy, it's easy to say your shit works without any proof.

Jack, there's like a dozen things you should improve before you even think about 'alternative' hocus-pocus methods to increase your yield.

And other asshats: grow up. Let me give you a sincere tip. Imagine you got a family with a bunch of kids. Not too many jobs around, economy sucks, kids are starving and sick. Someone offers you a job. Asks you to find you whether defoliation as a standard method to increase yields on cannabis plants is a valid technique. Fuck it up and you'll get fired. I.o.w. real life, professional. No wishful-thinking this time. Would you do some research, list the pros (none) and cons (many), separate facts from fiction? Or are you just going to bla bla bla bla bla out your ass?

Keep playing with your plants all you want, but what's the point of spreading all the false info while none of you fuckers can substantiate with valid arguments? Don't you get it? You can't even have a normal discussion with each other, do you really think you're going to beat universities, real pro farmers, scientists and researches to finding a technique that results in 30% more yield.

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as for you feeling you're above me, back at you lame. i guess you told me.

as far as your bullshit scenario, who gives a fuck? the scenario you "created" is one that many of people (whether it be growing or non growing related) endures on a regular basis, it's nothing new or compelling enough to prove that defoliating doesn't work.

shit from your words, it sounds like you never even tried it, but yet you know it just doesn't work. oh, that's right, science and your girlfriend uncleben told you that, so i guess if that's all you got to substantiate your bogus contribution to this topic, you failed once again.

here's a fact that you can't dispute, science has and continue to contradict itself. the same shit they said not to do 20 years ago, is the same shit that they highly recommend that you do atvm today. so, once again, what's your point. lol.

p.s. i still have yet to hear one of you dweebs comment sciencetifically on how root pruning during bloom is so effective or doesn't slow down the plant

The tactics used in this debate are deplorable

The defoulation crowd says works for us

The opposite crowd says your trash in repsosne


I guess we are at rollitup where the focus is status and politics

Fresh 2 De@th said:

very nice, i guess the lames will find something else to dispute or discredit your proof. from what i've always read, pics or it didn't happen, but i guess that doesn't apply anymore.



as for you feeling you're above me, back at you lame. i guess you told me.

as far as your bullshit scenario, who gives a fuck? the scenario you "created" is one that many of people (whether it be growing or non growing related) endures on a regular basis, it's nothing new or compelling enough to prove that defoliating doesn't work.

shit from your words, it sounds like you never even tried it, but yet you know it just doesn't work. oh, that's right, science and your girlfriend uncleben told you that, so i guess if that's all you got to substantiate your bogus contribution to this topic, you failed once again.

here's a fact that you can't dispute, science has and continue to contradict itself. the same shit they said not to do 20 years ago, is the same shit that they highly recommend that you do atvm today. so, once again, what's your point. lol.

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All that picture proves is that jack can grow a plant. it does not show that the same plant in the same conditions(un molested) would yield 30% less. Some REAL scientific data is all were asking for.

Your fallacy is lacking in substance,logic less arguments should stay at home with the children you will just discredit the results or his actions

I saw this same shit go on in another thread where a dude was posting about npk values preferred in flower,
Posted showed the results of scientific studies only to be told these are not good enough

Can't tell a piece of shit it stinks if it has no ability to cognativly reason what smell

rustyshaclkferd said:

Your fallacy is lacking in substance,logic less arguments should stay at home with the children you will just discredit the results or his actions

I saw this same shit go on in another thread where a dude was posting about npk values preferred in flower,
Posted showed the results of scientific studies only to be told these are not good enough

Can't tell a piece of shit it stinks if it has no ability to cognativly reason what smell

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My fallacy? Funny, you're basing your whole argument on 1 guys picture

Jr. the same shit you're asking for is the same shit that we're asking for.

like i said, you or anyone else that takes your stance can't provide a lick of what you'll are asking for. just because some outdated science says one thing, that doesn't actually solidify your case. if that was the case, everything would be as if it were many of years or centuries ago.

look at topping or any form of other training, if done incorrectly, it appears that it's not effective or just doesn't work. i am pretty sure many years ago, before all these different techniques that have been tried and perfected, topping, tying down a plant or pinching the stem to increase yields was frowned upon. why? because people like you didn't understand it (allowing to science block their purviews).

just like with uncleben and his root pruning method in bloom, show us scientifically where this has been proven to work. i am pretty sure he can't, and if he does, it would completely contradict his stance on defoliation.
i also must note that, if he were to talk that shit on more established boards, around more established growers, he would be receiving the same treatment that he's been known to give out here about defoliation. dudes would roast his ass for root pruning while in bloom. but you know what, from his observations and test runs, i am pretty sure he deems it to work from the results he has gotten. however, scientifically, i am pretty sure he can't prove that root pruning during bloom doesn't slow down the plant or decreases yield.

Fresh 2 De@th said:

Jr. the same shit you're asking for is the same shit that we're asking for.

like i said, you or anyone else that takes your stance can't provide a lick of what you'll are asking for. just because some outdated science says one thing, that doesn't actually solidify your case. if that was the case, everything would be as if it were many of years or centuries ago.

look at topping or any form of other training, if done incorrectly, it appears that it's not effective or just doesn't work. i am pretty sure many years ago, before all these different techniques that have been tried and perfected, topping, tying down a plant or pinching the stem to increase yields was frowned upon. why? because people like you didn't understand it (allowing to science block their purviews).

just like with uncleben and his root pruning method in bloom, show us scientifically where this has been proven to work. i am pretty sure he can't, and if he does, it would completely contradict his stance on defoliation.
i also must note that, if he were to talk that shit on more established boards, around more established growers, he would be receiving the same treatment that he's been known to give out here about defoliation. dudes would roast his ass for root pruning while in bloom. but you know what, from his observations and test runs, i am pretty sure he deems it to work from the results he has gotten. however, scientifically, i am pretty sure he can't prove that root pruning during bloom doesn't slow down the plant or decreases yield.

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I have read his root pruning thread, i never read where it said to do it in flower.please provide a link to that,if available. I have done it at transplanting and seen the results. Same with defoliating, seen the negative results, so i have no need to prove anything to myself, i'm not claiming some new technique that everyone should try, You are.

Internet is slow so.I can't quote you chuck .But you use the subjective outlook to view picutes in your conditional argument

so are you intentianally making yourself look the fool

You argue against the person and not his message and that is where you lose . . .you can discredit einstien all you want. .. . He was bad at math English . . .whatever but his message rings clear .. . People like you are why gallileo died . . .deal with it or open your mind

I think the funniest part (looking for humor in all the wrong places) about this thread.. is ANYONE who grows for ANY length of time, is going to have PLENTY of time to try this, that and the other thing, and it all becomes academic nonsense. If you just do one way of ANYTHING ever, get a life. Live a little.

All the grows I have had, you bet I tried close to 'actual' defoliating.. did not like it, did not do anything for me the several times I tried (DO NOT DO ANYTHING I EVER DID BY EXAMPLE, bad idea).. and the cool thing is, it didn't matter, I am glad I did it... It's all anecdotal, there were no controls, I am just a stoner (actually I hate that phrase) and I've a room full of grass that says whatever I do today, tomorrow we can do something different if we want to.. it just doesn't fucking matter.. this is an ONGOING thing.. forevah~

Certainly nothing worth hating the 'other' Fking @Q#6y's and motehr F@#6rs over.. Jeesus.. YOu bunch of @#&^!~!s and #$&*@...

And stuff and things..


*steps off soap box, ducks from tossed tomatoes*

chuck estevez said:

I have read his root pruning thread, i never read where it said to do it in flower.please provide a link to that,if available. I have done it at transplanting and seen the results. Same with defoliating, seen the negative results, so i have no need to prove anything to myself, i'm not claiming some new technique that everyone should try, You are.

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i am pretty sure ub knows what i am talking about, so in this regards, you are not even relevant.

and once again, you and the others ignorance shine so bright, that it's very hard to ignore or see. since when has defoliating been a new technique? just because you are new to the term or just became aware of it, doesn't necessarily mean that it's new. and just because you didn't or couldn't get it right doesn't mean that it doesn't work. shit, look how many threads that exist here were people topped and didn't get it right. does that mean topping doesn't work as well? knowing you and your cronies, you'll would probably say yes. however to the rest of us, it does work when it's done right. also must note that not all plants respond the same or well to training period, so one must take note of that as well. are you starting to get it now, JR.

just to be clear, i don't care what your or anyone else's reason maybe, but if you take off any branch or leaf, on any part of the plant, you are defoliating. so if you're into lollipopping or topping, guess what? you are a defoliator.
there's some facts for you'll asses.

DAWN, n. The time when men of reason go to bed. Certain old men prefer to rise at about that time, taking a cold bath and a long walk with an empty stomach, and otherwise mortifying the flesh. They then point with pride to these practices as the cause of their sturdy health and ripe years; the truth being that they are hearty and old, not because of their habits, but in spite of them. The reason we find only robust persons doing this thing is that it has killed all the others who have tried it.

Bierce Baby!

JD

Fresh 2 De@th said:

i am pretty sure ub knows what i am talking about, so in this regards, you are not even relevant.

and once again, you and the others ignorance shine so bright, that it's very hard to ignore or see. since when has defoliating been a new technique? just because you are new to the term or just became aware of it, doesn't necessarily mean that it's new. and just because you didn't or couldn't get it right doesn't mean that it doesn't work. shit, look how many threads that exist here were people topped and didn't get it right. does that mean topping doesn't work as well? knowing you and your cronies, you'll would probably say yes. however to the rest of us, it does work when it's done right. also must note that not all plants respond the same or well to training period, so one must take note of that as well. are you starting to get it now, JR.

just to be clear, i don't care what your or anyone else's reason maybe, but if you take off any branch or leaf, on any part of the plant, you are defoliating. so if you're into lollipopping or topping, guess what? you are a defoliator.
there's some facts for you'll asses.

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My case and point, you deleafers are so angry, you take it out on your plants, and probably your boyfriend too.

insid33 said:

Are there some strains that may not be hurt as much due to defoliage?

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of course, some need it. i am pretty sure you seen some descriptions of certain seed variety that the breeder recommends that you thin the middle. one reason is due for better light penetration and the other for better airflow to prevent pm.