First time shroom grow

sorry puncuation problem i corrected it it should make since now

He is saying dont crumble up your cakes on top of your bulk substrate... You asked about casing with them when the correct term is spawning with them... layer or mix up broken cakes with your bulk substrate to make a giant colonized cake. A casing is a layer that goes on after colonization to keep a high RH% at the surface of the substrate.

okay so let me clarify...

fast version!!!!
this is what i plan to do.
this list is simply for being concise.


1. knock up jars with spores

2. once fully 100% colonized, pf tek cakes are ready to be "SPAWNED" in to casing

3. BOTTOM layer of casing.... 1-2 cm of verm.
MIDDLE layer of casing..... crumbled cake spawn.
TOP layer of casing...... casing layer.

4. my casing substrate layer will be
50/50 coir and verm.
with a little crusted oyster shells and pickling lime.
and im going to add a 30% of earth worm casings into the substrate mixture.

how does that sound?

dankillerbs said:

95deg is way too hot! It will contam in no time at that heat. Room temp is fine(70-80) As far as 2 jars being faster, could be moisture content, could be less spores in the jar... did you say you made your own syringe from a print? make sure and shake syringes to break up spores also. Never grown on cow manure but im sure its fine with the right aditives... And yes HeatlessBBQ, fully colonized BRF cakes can be broken up as spawn for bulk substrates... just make sure its 100% by waiting a week after you think its done, then break it up with clean hands into you substrate of choice at field capacity

Click to expand...

If it is going to contam, it will contam regardless of temp right?

i lowered heat. i did not shake up syringe....it was shaken naturally by my movements (piercing jars, sterilizing needle, etc)

aeviaanah said:

If it is going to contam, it will contam regardless of temp right?

i lowered heat. i did not shake up syringe....it was shaken naturally by my movements (piercing jars, sterilizing needle, etc)

Click to expand...

yeah its like HIV, once its got ya its got ya, its just a matter of when it will show up..
Your temps should be fine, fluctating temps often help to strengthen the mycelium, just like outside, sometimes its 100degrees, then it can drop to 60, mushrooms survive this..

Prepping your final substrate
Chop all your straw down to 2-3in pieces, a little bigger or smaller is fine, and submerge it in water while you chop you poo..
You want to grind up the poo until its like premium soil, just tiny chlittle chunks, not dime sized globs. most of the time, misting with the water hose before starting will help it break up easier.
Now pull your chopped straw out by the handfuls, squeezing access water out. Remember Field Capacity
Mix 1-1-1 Poo-Straw-Verm
Youll have to add water and mix by hand, and mix thoroughly.
Now get the final mix to Field Capacity..
Alot of poeple Pasturize, or soak thier mediums in really hot water for over night. I Pressure cook becasue its more of a dead on kill of any contam that pasturizing can let live.
You can Pressure Cook your final substrate 1 of 2 ways.
#1 Load up wide mouth quart mason jars- This requires 90mins of PC'ing, and makes spreading your mix a breeze.
#2 Turkey Bags- Requires a 120min PC Because its a larger, more solid chunk than jars with space between them, therefor it takes more time to heat the core of the substrate.
If you were to go with jars you could easily layer your final sub and spawn. Simplicity is best, and anytime that saves time reduces contamination risks.
Your going to want to use 7-15qt sterilite tubs(about the size of what u said to use for my cloner), they are easy to fill, stackable, and align really well.
While your picking out your smaller tubs, grab up a large tub for your fruiting chamber. It would ideal if you could find a large tub that small ones will sit side by side in, utilizing your space as best as possible, so you can have as many tubs fruiting at once as possible per Fruiting chamber..
So you get home and your jars are colonized, you have your final substrate in jars that just finished cooling, and your tubs to put it all into. Now its time to spawn your corn to your final substrate.
Your going to want to layer your FS(final sub) and your corn. Shake the corn jars enough to break up the corn but not destroy all the mycelium. U should notice signs of blue/green brusing on the corn
So you take a jar of your FS and cover the bottom of the tub about 1/2-3/4in up side, then in not such a heavy manner dump in some corn, kind of hit and miss, but even across the FS, then layer the the FS over the corn again same amount, then corn again, then one last layer of FS to keep it covered. all of this should be loosely layered Put your lid on the sterilite and put the whole thing inside a black trash bag, stacking multiple tubs if needed, put them in the same enviornment your colonizing jars were in.
You should only have to use 1-2 jars of colonized corn per 2-4 jars of Final substate per tub. about 3-4 inch thick final substrate with spawn mix is perfect.
Leave these in the dark for 3 days with no light exposure, then youll want to open and fan them every night and check for any signs of contamination or cobweb, which at this point if only a small spot contaminates you can carefully remove that section and a small section around it and possibly save that tub.
These tubs usually colonize in a week, week and a half tops. at the rate your specific genotype of PRA is growing, it should be a week or less. Once your tubs are fully colonized, put them in your fruiting chamber. Try to achieve 100% Relative Humidity and temps in the 80's, a cfl can be placed above the fruiting chamber, not directly shining on any individual colonized tub, but the tops of the colonized tubs do need light, 18/6 light cycle is just fine, you can go less than that if you want as mushrooms dont rely on light cycles for fruiting.

HeatlessBBQ said:

okay so let me clarify...

fast version!!!!
this is what i plan to do.
this list is simply for being concise.


1. knock up jars with spores

2. once fully 100% colonized, pf tek cakes are ready to be "SPAWNED" in to casing

3. BOTTOM layer of casing.... 1-2 cm of verm.
MIDDLE layer of casing..... crumbled cake spawn.
TOP layer of casing...... casing layer.

4. my casing substrate layer will be
50/50 coir and verm.
with a little crusted oyster shells and pickling lime.
and im going to add a 30% of earth worm casings into the substrate mixture.

how does that sound?

Click to expand...

Something like that but once you get your pf jars colonized, add put them all in a big ziplock bag, add some bottled water and make a slurry mix out of it that can be spread or pasted in layers for your final tubs.
Mix 5 layers, same pattern you was using..

Sorry Aev. dont mean to hijack ur thread here.

HeatlessBBQ, your still refering to "casing" incorrectly. A casing is a layer that has no nutrients, its not supposed to colonize, it just provides a moist enviroment perfect for pinning. What you are talking about doing is crumbling a cake into coir, verm, crusted oyster shells, and pickling lime, which are all nutrient rich substrates... the myc will colonize those fully... a casing layer doesnt have nutrients and isnt supposed to colonized fully. Your trying to colonize a larger substrate. Basically a giant cake. Not a casing. No offense, just trying to help you understand the terminology.

Anyways, forget the verm on the bottom, just use the mix you mentioned.. make sure its pasteurized... put a layer of it on the bottom, crumble up your cakes in the middle, then put a layer on top... then you can decide to case or not once its fully colonized.

goodolboy said:

yeah its like HIV, once its got ya its got ya, its just a matter of when it will show up..
Your temps should be fine, fluctating temps often help to strengthen the mycelium, just like outside, sometimes its 100degrees, then it can drop to 60, mushrooms survive this..

Prepping your final substrate
Chop all your straw down to 2-3in pieces, a little bigger or smaller is fine, and submerge it in water while you chop you poo..
You want to grind up the poo until its like premium soil, just tiny chlittle chunks, not dime sized globs. most of the time, misting with the water hose before starting will help it break up easier.
Now pull your chopped straw out by the handfuls, squeezing access water out. Remember Field Capacity
Mix 1-1-1 Poo-Straw-Verm
Youll have to add water and mix by hand, and mix thoroughly.
Now get the final mix to Field Capacity..
Alot of poeple Pasturize, or soak thier mediums in really hot water for over night. I Pressure cook becasue its more of a dead on kill of any contam that pasturizing can let live.
You can Pressure Cook your final substrate 1 of 2 ways.
#1 Load up wide mouth quart mason jars- This requires 90mins of PC'ing, and makes spreading your mix a breeze.
#2 Turkey Bags- Requires a 120min PC Because its a larger, more solid chunk than jars with space between them, therefor it takes more time to heat the core of the substrate.
If you were to go with jars you could easily layer your final sub and spawn. Simplicity is best, and anytime that saves time reduces contamination risks.
Your going to want to use 7-15qt sterilite tubs(about the size of what u said to use for my cloner), they are easy to fill, stackable, and align really well.
While your picking out your smaller tubs, grab up a large tub for your fruiting chamber. It would ideal if you could find a large tub that small ones will sit side by side in, utilizing your space as best as possible, so you can have as many tubs fruiting at once as possible per Fruiting chamber..
So you get home and your jars are colonized, you have your final substrate in jars that just finished cooling, and your tubs to put it all into. Now its time to spawn your corn to your final substrate.
Your going to want to layer your FS(final sub) and your corn. Shake the corn jars enough to break up the corn but not destroy all the mycelium. U should notice signs of blue/green brusing on the corn
So you take a jar of your FS and cover the bottom of the tub about 1/2-3/4in up side, then in not such a heavy manner dump in some corn, kind of hit and miss, but even across the FS, then layer the the FS over the corn again same amount, then corn again, then one last layer of FS to keep it covered. all of this should be loosely layered Put your lid on the sterilite and put the whole thing inside a black trash bag, stacking multiple tubs if needed, put them in the same enviornment your colonizing jars were in.
You should only have to use 1-2 jars of colonized corn per 2-4 jars of Final substate per tub. about 3-4 inch thick final substrate with spawn mix is perfect.
Leave these in the dark for 3 days with no light exposure, then youll want to open and fan them every night and check for any signs of contamination or cobweb, which at this point if only a small spot contaminates you can carefully remove that section and a small section around it and possibly save that tub.
These tubs usually colonize in a week, week and a half tops. at the rate your specific genotype of PRA is growing, it should be a week or less. Once your tubs are fully colonized, put them in your fruiting chamber. Try to achieve 100% Relative Humidity and temps in the 80's, a cfl can be placed above the fruiting chamber, not directly shining on any individual colonized tub, but the tops of the colonized tubs do need light, 18/6 light cycle is just fine, you can go less than that if you want as mushrooms dont rely on light cycles for fruiting.

Click to expand...

thanks man i will be sure to follow this.

dankillerbs said:

HeatlessBBQ, your still refering to "casing" incorrectly. A casing is a layer that has no nutrients, its not supposed to colonize, it just provides a moist enviroment perfect for pinning. What you are talking about doing is crumbling a cake into coir, verm, crusted oyster shells, and pickling lime, which are all nutrient rich substrates... the myc will colonize those fully... a casing layer doesnt have nutrients and isnt supposed to colonized fully. Your trying to colonize a larger substrate. Basically a giant cake. Not a casing. No offense, just trying to help you understand the terminology.

Anyways, forget the verm on the bottom, just use the mix you mentioned.. make sure its pasteurized... put a layer of it on the bottom, crumble up your cakes in the middle, then put a layer on top... then you can decide to case or not once its fully colonized.

Click to expand...

okay.....word

so you are saying that im getting confused between spawning and casing. correct?

after i birth the brf jars.... i need to put a small layer of pasteurized mixture on bottom, crumble spawn into middle, and more of the pasteurized substrate mixture on top.
put tin foil over top, label strain and date, and put into further incubation for 3-10 days so i can colonize a larger substrate. this is spawning, correct?

then after the "larger cake" in tins are colonized, take tin foil off and is this when i put it into the fruiting shotgun chamber and begin the initial pinset?
or do i have to put a casing layer on top of the colonized "giant cake" (larger substrate) before i start the pinset? or do i have to use a different substrate with less nutes?

i think i get what you are saying but im still a little confused, please clarify.

+rep dankillerbs

Corn fed huh fuckers from Nebraska come out big, hell why not some fun gi's lol

"so you are saying that im getting confused between spawning and casing. correct?" -heatlessBBQ

Yes, well kinda just using it out of context really... Everything you described is considered spawning to a bulk substrate, and has nothing to do with "casing" yet. But I know your not the only person thats confused that term with spawning to bulk. Anyways, any means to colonize a larger substrate with a smaller one is spawning. A casing is just a layer that is put on top of your colonized substrate that is moist and holds a high rh% at the surface of yours substrate where pins form...it doesnt colonize. Have you ever heard of dunking and rolling BRF cakes in verm? That is considered casing. It is OPTIONAL though, especially on bulk substrates and for Cubensis mushrooms, its not required. So what kind of fruiting chamber are you making? Just trays in a shotgun terrarium? I would recomend a monotub and they do great without casing! If you did something like a monotub or had a fruiting chamber that held a high rh% all the time then you wouldnt need to use a casing...

"after i birth the brf jars.... i need to put a small layer of pasteurized mixture on bottom, crumble spawn into middle, and more of the pasteurized substrate mixture on top.
put tin foil over top, label strain and date, and put into further incubation for 3-10 days so i can colonize a larger substrate. this is spawning, correct?"

Yes

"then after the "larger cake" in tins are colonized, take tin foil off and is this when i put it into the fruiting shotgun chamber and begin the initial pinset?
or do i have to put a casing layer on top of the colonized "giant cake" (larger substrate) before i start the pinset? or do i have to use a different substrate with less nutes?"

If you coose to use a casing, you put it on once fully colonized and induce fruiting conditions... but you dont want that same nutrient rich mix you used for you bulk sub to be the casing layer because the myc will rip through it and colonize it in no time, which defeats the purpose of a casing... you DONT want your casing layer colonized. It just creates a good microclimate for good pinsets.

okay i get your logic.

but i simply dont know what i should do???

ive grown using the pf tek a few times with the shotgun chamber but i wanted to step it up a notch along with still using the shotgun terrarium.

i want to experiment...

okay, hopefully you will understand what im asking after i say this...
-im knocking up 12 1/2 pint jars.
-once colonized, i want to put 6 cakes into fruit after i dunk and roll them. (i know how to do this AKA pf tek)
-with the remaining 6 cakes after being dunked for 24 hours, i want to spawn them into bigger cakes (1 cake per small trey and 2 cakes persmall/medium trey)
-i want to make 2 medium/small treys with two cakes per trey. and 4 small treys containing only one cake per trey.
-i simply want to put each trey into the shotgun terrarium

so....what should i do?
birth cakes, spawn cakes into treys for 3-10 days (with what kind of substrate??), then after the big cake is colonized after spawn, i put casing layer on top of bigger colonized cake (with above substrate with lots of nutes) then put into shotgun terrarium?

or do i need to let it colonize a little more before putting into fruiting conditions?

sorry i dont wanna fuck up. thanks a lot for input

Look, allthough it is possible to do it, riceflour does not make a good spawn mix,
What you could try, if you have a pressure cooker, is to prepare some grain jars, birsdseed, rye or corn, then transfer like a half a spoonfool of your cake into each grain jar in a $5 homemade glovebox. It should be colonised i nlike 2 weeks.

Then go nuts like this

http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1480354

About your question, it will basicaly not start to fruit until nearly all the medium is covered in myc, this is like a signal to the fungi that hey, we might have a shortlived thing going here, lets try to conserve our DNA by fruiting. So adding a top layer of something edible like coir, is putting more food on, and delaying fruiting.

took a peek at jars this morning, no signs of growth since Tuesday night. hope everything is goin good.

Its gonna be the longest month of your life

Funny how the whole process takes so much work then once you have pinning the things explode into mushies in no time! I love it...Ill miss it greatly!

aeviaanah said:

took a peek at jars this morning, no signs of growth since Tuesday night. hope everything is goin good.

Click to expand...

Yeah man ur good, just cuz u cant see growth on the outside of the jar doesnt mean it isnt growing in places in the corn u cant see

ANC said:

Its gonna be the longest month of your life

Click to expand...

You are soo right

fourrings said:

Funny how the whole process takes so much work then once you have pinning the things explode into mushies in no time! I love it...Ill miss it greatly!

Click to expand...

Yeah I know, I can wait til Aev gets there, when people get there first pins/harvest, you can feel the joy in thier posts right now Aev seems a little worried, but thats normal first time around, especially after you try once and contam out.

ANC said:

Its gonna be the longest month of your life

Click to expand...

I still dont quiet know how long this should take anyway! A month? I was thinking a week or two for 1/2 qt jars?

fourrings said:

Funny how the whole process takes so much work then once you have pinning the things explode into mushies in no time! I love it...Ill miss it greatly!

Click to expand...

I cant wait!

goodolboy said:

Yeah man ur good, just cuz u cant see growth on the outside of the jar doesnt mean it isnt growing in places in the corn u cant see

You are soo right


Yeah I know, I can wait til Aev gets there, when people get there first pins/harvest, you can feel the joy in thier posts right now Aev seems a little worried, but thats normal first time around, especially after you try once and contam out.

Click to expand...

You are right I am a bit worried, mostly anxious. How long should inoc take on average with PRA- 1/2qt jars?

Here are a few images i just took....growth isnt much more since last tuesday.


best jar


second best


third best

there is also a small puddle of water in some of the jars, this ok? should popcorn have absorbed this or is this normal? thanks guys for all the help!

its about a month on average for full jar colonization, some are faster some are slower.

ok this explains everything...i was thinking it was alot shorter time frame for full colonization. thanks!