Foxfarm or general organics?

st0wandgrow said:

I used the GO line myself for a couple rounds.

Click to expand...

That's about one round longer then I did...

well, if you look at it from purely a neutral standpoint, i'd say Pattahabi contributes more to the organic section than nullis does, not saying he isn't a smart and competent grower, seems clear to me he is, but most of us are, and the attitude he shows, which I understand his lack of patience, I do, but it doesn't excuse his behavior, strictly saying, if everybody were like him, this site wouldn't be helpful at all, it's a public forum, so if you want to be a useful part of it, you gotta be able to deal with people, from all intellects...and conversely pat has been helpful to not only myself but others as well. So like I said, from a neutral standpoint...
isn't the entire point of this site to help people grow better?

greasemonkeymann said:

isn't the entire point of this site to help people grow better?

Click to expand...

Yes. I agree with that. To that point, is it helpful to discourage people by talking down to them and telling them that their way of doing it is not "the right way"?

I agree with you that P is a very knowledgeable, helpful cat. Where we part ways I guess is how the message is delivered. I might be splitting hairs here a bit, but there is a difference between saying "you are doing it all wrong", and "here's how I do it, I'm getting great results, if you're interested in more info let me know and I'd be happy to help".

I think this entire thread can be boiled down to how the message is delivered. Remove all of the text dealing with bottles of whatever, and what you're left with is Nullis, Hyroot, P, You, Anzo, myself, etc all growing pretty much exactly the same way.... the only difference being a couple of us feel less inclined to shit on someone for doing things differently than we are.

st0wandgrow said:

Yes. I agree with that. To that point, is it helpful to discourage people by talking down to them and telling them that their way of doing it is not "the right way"?

I agree with you that P is a very knowledgeable, helpful cat. Where we part ways I guess is how the message is delivered. I might be splitting hairs here a bit, but there is a difference between saying "you are doing it all wrong", and "here's how I do it, I'm getting great results, if you're interested in more info let me know and I'd be happy to help".

I think this entire thread can be boiled down to how the message is delivered. Remove all of the text dealing with bottles of whatever, and what you're left with is Nullis, Hyroot, P, You, Anzo, myself, etc all growing pretty much exactly the same way.... the only difference being a couple of us feel less inclined to shit on someone for doing things differently than we are.

Click to expand...

well said my friend.

Pattahabi said:

No, Nullis is just a jerk. What he fails to understand is Hyroot, myself, and many others are trying to help people grow organically without spending their paycheck at the hydrostore. Can you use all the bottles that are labeled OMRI and have an organic grow? I guess. Some of us think there is a better, cheaper, and simplier way of doing it.

But by all means, ramble on Nullis...

P-

Click to expand...

But my point from post #12 was that, some others don't exactly think that way really is any simpler, or much better, or even cheaper in many cases. In many cases it really isn't depending on where you live and what else you have going on in your life. Can you appreciate that without calling me a jerk? I'll be sure not to use foul language in your direction.
It's just, you act as if I was telling people to go out and buy the whole Advanced Nutrient line or something. And does it really matter if someone buys a bag of compost at a "hydro store" as opposed to a farm supply? How is shopping at your local "grow shop" as opposed to online not supporting your local economy?

I mean hyroot even admits at one point in response to my snarky city compost bit that "of course some places are going to have shitty compost", but neither of you will concede to such a sentiment as far as bottled products or bagged compost/earthworm castings from the "hydro store" go? Do you even realize how much the product selections at these places vary from region to region? One of the grow shops in my area actually stopped selling the more local worm castings they briefly had, because they were infested with pests.

Nullis said:

I'll be sure not to use foul language in your direction.

Click to expand...

A little late for that isn't it?

Nullis said:

One of the grow shops in my area actually stopped selling the more local worm castings they briefly had, because they were infested with pests.

Click to expand...

I just had to laugh at this. If there are not bugs in my soil I get worried. Bugs are part of soil.

Yup, I'm going to bash buying nutes off the hydrostore shelf. I'm going to tell people FFOF is garbage. I'm not going to sugar coat it when people are using no pest strips and superthrive in their organic grows. And I sure as hell am going to tell people reconstituted kelp is not as good as fresh.

I know this is a new word for the wanna be chemist, SUSTAINABILITY....

To some of us, growing organic is more then an omri logo.

P-

st0wandgrow said:

Yes. I agree with that. To that point, is it helpful to discourage people by talking down to them and telling them that their way of doing it is not "the right way"?

I agree with you that P is a very knowledgeable, helpful cat. Where we part ways I guess is how the message is delivered. I might be splitting hairs here a bit, but there is a difference between saying "you are doing it all wrong", and "here's how I do it, I'm getting great results, if you're interested in more info let me know and I'd be happy to help".

I think this entire thread can be boiled down to how the message is delivered. Remove all of the text dealing with bottles of whatever, and what you're left with is Nullis, Hyroot, P, You, Anzo, myself, etc all growing pretty much exactly the same way.... the only difference being a couple of us feel less inclined to shit on someone for doing things differently than we are.

Click to expand...

My name was put in the same category as people i turn to for help and questions i feel like i moving on up..... hell yeah lol

Some go so far as to say outdoor is the only true organic growing.....
So for all of us that use indoor lighting....with any kind of container/pot guess what?

From organic vs chem. to organic vs real organic vs true organic.....ect

It will never end.

Pattahabi said:

A little late for that isn't it?


I just had to laugh at this. If there are not bugs in my soil I get worried. Bugs are part of soil.

Yup, I'm going to bash buying nutes off the hydrostore shelf. I'm going to tell people FFOF is garbage. I'm not going to sugar coat it when people are using no pest strips and superthrive in their organic grows. And I sure as hell am going to tell people reconstituted kelp is not as good as fresh.

I know this is a new word for the wanna be chemist, SUSTAINABILITY....

To some of us, growing organic is more then an omri logo.

P-

Click to expand...

What is your objective when you interact with someone on here that for example is using Ocean Forest? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think it's the same as mine: To help that person, and make them aware that there are better options, correct?

If that's the case then I contend that there is a better way than telling them that "FFOF is garbage". If you lead with that you're asking for an argument IMO. People don't like to be told that they're wrong, or stupid. A little diplomacy goes a long way.

I know for me personally I tend to tune out bluster. When I played hockey I always responded better to coaches that came at me with constructive criticism as opposed to a coach that screamed and hollered. I tuned that shit right out.

And as for sustainability, we all have room for improvement there ..... unless you're exclusively using leaf mold and dynamic accumulators from your back yard

genuity said:

Some go so far as to say outdoor is the only true organic growing.....
So for all of us that use indoor lighting....with any kind of container/pot guess what?

From organic vs chem. to organic vs real organic vs true organic.....ect

It will never end.

Click to expand...

I'm going to run out and buy some synthetic nutes, pesticides and herbicides to match my indoor lights!

Funtimes for all!

st0wandgrow said:

What is your objective when you interact with someone on here that for example is using Ocean Forest? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think it's the same as mine: To help that person, and make them aware that there are better options, correct?

If that's the case then I contend that there is a better way than telling them that "FFOF is garbage". If you lead with that you're asking for an argument IMO. People don't like to be told that they're wrong, or stupid. A little diplomacy goes a long way.

I know for me personally I tend to tune out bluster. When I played hockey I always responded better to coaches that came at me with constructive criticism as opposed to a coach that screamed and hollered. I tuned that shit right out.

And as for sustainability, we all have room for improvement there ..... unless you're exclusively using leaf mold and dynamic accumulators from your back yard

Click to expand...

My feelings are not so sensitive (especially not when playing hockey). I expect people to tell me what they think without the sugar coating. Just as I call FFOF garbage, other people put it on a petistool. To each their own, but you were the first one to point out FFOF is not organic.

Cheap and easy is expensive and troublesome in the long run.

P-

Pattahabi said:

A little late for that isn't it?


I just had to laugh at this. If there are not bugs in my soil I get worried. Bugs are part of soil.

Yup, I'm going to bash buying nutes off the hydrostore shelf. I'm going to tell people FFOF is garbage. I'm not going to sugar coat it when people are using no pest strips and superthrive in their organic grows. And I sure as hell am going to tell people reconstituted kelp is not as good as fresh.

I know this is a new word for the wanna be chemist, SUSTAINABILITY....

To some of us, growing organic is more then an omri logo.

P-

Click to expand...

Alright then fuck you, I guess. Because once someone is an asshole at some point, it's totally just too late for them to stop being an asshole, at some point.

Not all bugs are pests. No all pests are bugs. I this case it was root eating nematodes. Plenty of bugs in my soil, so I must be doing something right.

So when did EVER I recommend anybody use acetylcholinesterase inhibitors like "No Pest Strips"? And Super-Thrive, really? Using fish fertilizer along with recycled soil isn't sustainable, why?

Show me some research that says "reconstituted kelp" (I think you mean extracts) is not as good as fresh kelp, or is "worse" than fresh kelp. I already provided material that substantiates what I say. Now it's your turn. Why did you run away for a while there just to come back and spout the same pretentious all or nothing, know it all, put words in people mouth bullshit anyways?

Nullis said:

Alright then fuck you, I guess. Because once someone is an asshole at some point, it's totally just too late for them to stop being an asshole, at some point.

Not all bugs are pests. No all pests are bugs. I this case it was root eating nematodes. Plenty of bugs in my soil, so I must be doing something right.

So when did EVER I recommend anybody use acetylcholinesterase inhibitors like "No Pest Strips"? And Super-Thrive, really? Using fish fertilizer along with recycled soil isn't sustainable, why?

Show me some research that says "reconstituted kelp" (I think you mean extracts) is not as good as fresh kelp, or is "worse" than fresh kelp. I already provided material that substantiates what I say. Now it's your turn. Why did you run away for a while there just to come back and spout the same pretentious all or nothing, know it all, put words in people mouth bullshit anyways?

Click to expand...

Show me where I said that you were advocating no pest strips?

Maybe you need to run away and take little break for a while. Sounds like you have your panties on backwards.

P-

Pattahabi said:

Maybe we should tone down the language a little?

Click to expand...

Nullis said:

And I'll use whatever the fuck language I want, because I am tired of straw men and bullshit and pretentiousness and tin foil hats.

Click to expand...

Nullis said:

Can you appreciate that without calling me a jerk? I'll be sure not to use foul language in your direction.

Click to expand...

Pattahabi said:

A little late for that isn't it?

Click to expand...

Nullis said:

Alright then fuck you, I guess. Because once someone is an asshole at some point, it's totally just too late for them to stop being an asshole, at some point.

Click to expand...

Pattahabi said:

My feelings are not so sensitive (especially not when playing hockey).

Click to expand...

Hey, hockey players have feelings too.

I seem to recall you getting pretty upset over the notion that someone would use coco coir over peat moss.

Your feelers got all ruffled when I mentioned RIU in front of Grand Poobah Coot too.

I've found that its an endearing quality though. Chicks dig it

Pattahabi said:

but you were the first one to point out FFOF is not organic.

Click to expand...

Yes, I pointed out to ShannonBall that FFOF uses synthetic urea and is therefor not technically considered an organic product. I didn't tell her what to do, or let her know that the product she was using was "garbage", I just put the info out there for her.

She ended up thanking me and deciding that she wanted to try building her own soil next spring..... and she was frustrated and upset with you.

See how that works?

saying people in cities can't mix soil and start fro. Scratch. Everyone lives in a city. Whether you have land or not. As long as you have a 3x3 area you can mix soil. Even in your living room. You don't have to mix 20 bags of soil at a time. I mix 2 cu ft at time in 20 gal Rubbermaid. I live in a 1100sq ft condo.

st0wandgrow said:

Hey, hockey players have feelings too.

I seem to recall you getting pretty upset over the notion that someone would use coco coir over peat moss.

Your feelers got all ruffled when I mentioned RIU in front of Grand Poobah Coot too.

I've found that its an endearing quality though. Chicks dig it

Click to expand...

I seem to recall you getting coco/peat answers from Coot, MM, and the rest you didn't like. That didn't ruffle my feathers. When I got irritated is when I showed you the post before I posted it, added in your suggestions, and then you went all coco crazy on me after I posted it. I wanted answers, not inter-forum drama.

P-

Funny shit dudes.

st0wandgrow said:

Yes, I pointed out to ShannonBall that FFOF uses synthetic urea and is therefor not technically considered an organic product. I didn't tell her what to do, or let her know that the product she was using was "garbage", I just put the info out there for her.

She ended up thanking me and deciding that she wanted to try building her own soil next spring..... and she was frustrated and upset with you.

See how that works?

Click to expand...

How did you find out they use synthetics. I missed that. Do they have a msds sheet for the soil?

st0wandgrow said:

Yes, I pointed out to ShannonBall that FFOF uses synthetic urea and is therefor not technically considered an organic product. I didn't tell her what to do, or let her know that the product she was using was "garbage", I just put the info out there for her.

She ended up thanking me and deciding that she wanted to try building her own soil next spring..... and she was frustrated and upset with you.

See how that works?

Click to expand...

Ofc she was frustrated and upset with me. She posts a naked picture of herself (mature), tries to push a bottle fertilizer line and FFOF, and then drops the 'well I've been doing this since 1974' crap. She posted a big testimonial for the nute company and then says ‘oh, I was only looking for dialog on the product’.

Fresh outta warm and fuzzy today!

P-

Pattahabi said:

Show me where I said that you were advocating no pest strips?

Maybe you need to run away and take little break for a while. Sounds like you have your panties on backwards.

P-

Click to expand...

Pattahabi said:

Yup, I'm going to bash buying nutes off the hydrostore shelf. I'm going to tell people FFOF is garbage. I'm not going to sugar coat it when people are using no pest strips and superthrive in their organic grows. And I sure as hell am going to tell people reconstituted kelp is not as good as fresh.

Click to expand...

Which was never remotely the topic of this thread.

So why the hell even bring them up then? To distract from the fact that you're a pompous ass (moreso than me...I mean shit)? And yeah, I tried to tone down the language, you said it was too late. Do you have any point to make here? Because I don't wear panties. Not like the ones yo momma had on last night.

What you're really saying is... you got nothin.