Gas at $1.49 a gallon. =D

CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
I'm hardly a "righty" as you put it. However I am all for accuracy and logical conversation. You fail both MM.... in spades.

You just come across as ranting..... without focus.

out. :blsmoke:
 
tipsgnob

tipsgnob

New Member
we are supposed to be the best country in the world...but, if we don't take care of all the people in our country, rich or poor. what makes us any better than any third world country?
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
tipsgnob said:
we are supposed to be the best country in the world...but, if we don't take care of all the people in our country, rich or poor. what makes us any better than any third world country?
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And you think stealing from one group is justified?

That is where your system breaks down, the fact that it relies upon involuntary forced tax payments.

I can understand the need for taxes, but I think a more equitable system would be a National Retail Sales Tax, because then people that are trying to save for their retirement are not penalized for it.

People that want to save for a vehicle are not punished for it.

It would encourage the use of savings, and discourage the use of credit.

People that want to save to purchase a used house would be able to with out being taxed, but people that want to purchase a new house would have to pay taxes. People that can afford to build their own homes would pay taxes on the supplies necessary to do so, but people that are in business for themselves would not have to pay taxes to purchase supplies.

It would also make it so that everyone pays what is truly their fair share. People that want to have steak every night would pay more for that steak than some one that is satisfied with hamburger or soup, or being a vegan.

Then there's the fact that under the current plans everyone would get a return of what the government estimates the taxes they would pay on their personal needs are, so in the end it is not regressive like some claim.

It also ends the need for the government to intrude in every aspect of our lives via the IRS. That in and of itself makes it desirable. No longer does the government need to give a damn where you get your money from.
 
tipsgnob

tipsgnob

New Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
And you think stealing from one group is justified?

That is where your system breaks down, the fact that it relies upon involuntary forced tax payments.

I can understand the need for taxes, but I think a more equitable system would be a National Retail Sales Tax, because then people that are trying to save for their retirement are not penalized for it.

People that want to save for a vehicle are not punished for it.

It would encourage the use of savings, and discourage the use of credit.

People that want to save to purchase a used house would be able to with out being taxed, but people that want to purchase a new house would have to pay taxes. People that can afford to build their own homes would pay taxes on the supplies necessary to do so, but people that are in business for themselves would not have to pay taxes to purchase supplies.

It would also make it so that everyone pays what is truly their fair share. People that want to have steak every night would pay more for that steak than some one that is satisfied with hamburger or soup, or being a vegan.

Then there's the fact that under the current plans everyone would get a return of what the government estimates the taxes they would pay on their personal needs are, so in the end it is not regressive like some claim.

It also ends the need for the government to intrude in every aspect of our lives via the IRS. That in and of itself makes it desirable. No longer does the government need to give a damn where you get your money from.
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and you don't think the government helps rich folks stay rich?
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
tipsgnob said:
and you don't think the government helps rich folks stay rich?
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I don't care what it does for the rich, I do know from personal experience that it has done a damn good job of making me poorer, and I'm not rich, not by a long shot. I think my Networth is currently in the negative.

Hell, even when I was poor, it was doing a good job of making me poorer by still requiring that I pay taxes, all because I only had myself to support. Nevermind that any rational individual will tell you that it is still damn hard to support one person on $16K/year.

I've been poor and it sucks, and I'm currently middle class, and the government is stealing enough from me to make it seem pointless to even bother making the effort.

$46K/year and it needs to take $16K/year in taxes?

Hmmph, seems to me that the only thing taxes are doing is making sure the rich stay rich, and the people trying to get ahead get shafted.

That's my beef with taxes. If a person has $3 Billion dollars, and $50 Million in income, it matters little how much they are taxed, but when a person as $3K in savings, and only $50K in income then it matters that they are stuck paying $16K in taxes.

I know I'm selfish, but there are things that I want to do that require money, like getting into robotics, unfortunately, I can't afford a house with a garage right now, so I'm stuck where I'm at, and that's pretty much trying to get by and praying that I don't get sick or in an auto-accident that would require expensive surgery because I can't afford it.

The system's great, if you aren't just starting out, and paying these absurd taxes.

If you're just starting out, there's no way to get ahead.

It takes money to make money, and the government's making sure that no one in the middle and bottom has money.

So yeah, I guess it'd be viewed that the government is doing a damn good job of using taxes to ensure that the corporations that already exist continue to exist, and people that have money get more money, while people that don't have money get shafted.

That doesn't mean I can justify stealing from the rich. I don't want their money, I want to be free to try building my own company, and inventing things that will improve everyone's quality of life.

:: shrugs :: Materialistic, not really, I just want to be free to do more than work for others.

Of course, it'd be a lot easier if I hadn't made some stupid decisions, which I'm not going to rehash, having already complained about them.
 
Doctor Pot

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
That's my beef with taxes. If a person has $3 Billion dollars, and $50 Million in income, it matters little how much they are taxed, but when a person as $3K in savings, and only $50K in income then it matters that they are stuck paying $16K in taxes.

I know I'm selfish, but there are things that I want to do that require money, like getting into robotics, unfortunately, I can't afford a house with a garage right now, so I'm stuck where I'm at, and that's pretty much trying to get by and praying that I don't get sick or in an auto-accident that would require expensive surgery because I can't afford it.

The system's great, if you aren't just starting out, and paying these absurd taxes.

If you're just starting out, there's no way to get ahead.

It takes money to make money, and the government's making sure that no one in the middle and bottom has money.

So yeah, I guess it'd be viewed that the government is doing a damn good job of using taxes to ensure that the corporations that already exist continue to exist, and people that have money get more money, while people that don't have money get shafted.

That doesn't mean I can justify stealing from the rich. I don't want their money, I want to be free to try building my own company, and inventing things that will improve everyone's quality of life.

:: shrugs :: Materialistic, not really, I just want to be free to do more than work for others.

Of course, it'd be a lot easier if I hadn't made some stupid decisions, which I'm not going to rehash, having already complained about them.
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The income tax is graduated so that the rich pay a larger share of their income than the poor do. Granted, a lot of our paychecks go toward taxes, but at the lower end it's mostly social security and medicare, so eventually we get that back anyway.

You do realize that if your national sales tax went into effect, the prices on everything would go up by 30% right? If the things you think should be exempted were exempted, they'd have to raise that tax on everything else.
 
Doctor Pot

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
Life is a bitch, and hopefully they were intelligent enough to have life or disability insurance of their own.
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And what if they don't? Are they just fucked? Should they just be dumped out in the street like in third world countries?

Though if they spent all their savings on medical bills then I find it highly unlikely that they would still be unable to work. They may possibly be in debt up to their eyeballs, but if they really had the amount of surgery I think you are thinking of then, the fact that they are unable to work, would more than likely they are unwilling to work.
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These days, almost any surgery would send an ordinary person to the poorhouse. My dad had a simple hernia operation, and that alone cost like $10,000.

There are jobs that do not require much physical effort.

Of course, with the distortion in the markets caused by government interference no one can actually afford to be self-sufficient. The only thing the welfare state has caused is an every accelerating spiral of costs related to insurance and medical care.
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Honestly, I think it has more to do with malpractice insurance and the high cost of medical school for doctors. Other countries with nationalized health care have cheaper medical costs than we do.

But that's beside the point. Obviously, there are people out there who are in a situation like this, where they can't work because of a disease or injury. And even if they could work, who would want to hire them? Especially if they had a brain injury or something.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Doctor Pot, the "other' countries health care systems are in shambles. If you think health care QUALITY is NOT important, than by all means hand it over to the Govt. Well done....



out. :blsmoke:
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Doctor Pot said:
You do realize that if your national sales tax went into effect, the prices on everything would go up by 30% right? /quote]

No they woudn't. If all taxes were taken at the point of consumption, all the hidden taxes we now pay would be eliminated. If you study the "Fair Tax," you'll find that the amount of taxes paid would stay about the same. What would change is the method of collection resulting in a huge boost of economic liberty.

http://books.google.com/books?id=nj2A8v9swMwC&dq=the+fair+tax+boortz&pg=PP1&ots=r0oFMtgxPU&source=bn&sig=xtKQweqiC_WTwrNcV8d-7XQehMg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPR7,M1

http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/ReviewOfTheFairTaxBookKorves.pdf

Vi
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Doctor Pot

Doctor Pot

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
Doctor Pot, the "other' countries health care systems are in shambles. If you think health care QUALITY is NOT important, than by all means hand it over to the Govt. Well done....

out. :blsmoke:
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Other countries have problems, but they still spend a lot less on health care. France actually has a pretty good model, check out this article:
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070613_921562.htm

ViRedd said:
No they woudn't. If all taxes were taken at the point of consumption, all the hidden taxes we now pay would be eliminated. If you study the "Fair Tax," you'll find that the amount of taxes paid would stay about the same. What would change is the method of collection resulting in a huge boost of economic liberty.

http://books.google.com/books?id=nj2A8v9swMwC&dq=the+fair+tax+boortz&pg=PP1&ots=r0oFMtgxPU&source=bn&sig=xtKQweqiC_WTwrNcV8d-7XQehMg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPR7,M1

http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/ReviewOfTheFairTaxBookKorves.pdf

Vi
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This "fair" tax only gets rid of Federal income tax. Most of these "hidden taxes" would be other taxes that wouldn't be affected.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
CrackerJax said:
I'm hardly a "righty" as you put it. However I am all for accuracy and logical conversation. You fail both MM.... in spades.

You just come across as ranting..... without focus.

out. :blsmoke:
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The pot calls out to the kettle. What you call ranting, I call common sense, ever heard of that? I am as focused as I want to be. This is not life and death shit on this forum, and you most assuredly have no sense of humor, and also. I could give a fuck what you "think" and I use the term loosely. WTF do you expect, a book report every time you ask a question. Won't happen, not because I couldn't, but because I refuse to be bullied by idiots like you, capiche oh Obie-wan? Either use your mind or be left behind.
 
W

We Love 1

New Member
beginningbotanist420 said:
Whether its our economy being unstable or new government policies, I know something or someone is doing something right.

So I had a good day :)
:peace:
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Thank God!

The funny thing is that I bet the oil companies are peeing there pants because the new fuel is going to be hydrogen. (We can make the fuel in Our own homes) All a person will need will be water, electricty and a hydrogen generator with a compressor hooked up to it. Hemp can provide plenty of oil and biodiesel. We don't need fossil fuels anymore :D.

One!

The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~
 
tipsgnob

tipsgnob

New Member
We Love 1 said:
Thank God!

The funny thing is that I bet the oil companies are peeing there pants because the new fuel is going to be hydrogen. (We can make the fuel in Our own homes) All a person will need will be water, electricty and a hydrogen generator with a compressor hooked up to it. Hemp can provide plenty of oil and biodiesel. We don't need fossil fuels anymore :D.

One!

The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~
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how often to you get to use the computer in the prison library?
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Uhhhhh, at 2.00 or less a gallon, there is no windfall, just obscene profit. He didn't propose an obscene profit tax, Did he? I think he should, on all businesses.
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Hey med, at current as prices it's the government that is making the biggest profit off of gas.

They're still taking their average $0.46/gallon. Versus the oil companies that are probably earning $0.25, and the gas stations that are probably earning $0.05 and the Transports companies that are earning probably less than $0.01/gallon.

Even when gas was up in the $3.50 - $4.00/range the biggest amount of profits was probably going to speculators in the market that had screwed up the market dynamics by purchasing massive stakes in the market with just the intention of selling it.

After the speculators it was of course government that was still earning the largest portion of profits from its excise taxes.

Funny, the only people that consistently profit are the vultures and leeches in government.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
tipsgnob said:
5% flat tax...everyone pays it...no deductions...nothing
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Where do I sign up?

Though I like a NRST better. What I can't understand is why the left is absolutely against a NRST. The environmentalists have been going on and on for years about how people need to cut back on their consumption, and the health nuts are ranting about how people need to cut back on their calories, but for some reason there are others among the left that say that a NRST would be regressive. I fail to see how it would be regressive, because it taxes people according to how much they consume. This is especially true when it comes to steak, or other high end items, which would cost more than any tax rebate issued by the government would cost.

Regressive, hardly, it's still progressive, and it would also tax people that purchase $250,000 - $1,000,000 vehicles more than those that purchase $10,000 - $25,000 vehicles.

Then since savings aren't taxed more people would be able to save to try opening their own business or to try coming up with inventions that will improve society.


Though even a 5% flat tax is still progressive.

A person that earns $10,000 would only pay $500, a person that earns $100,000 would pay $5,000, a person that earns $1,000,000 would pay $50,000.

I fail to see what isn't "progressive" about that, as the person earning the most still pays drastically more.

Some one earning $100,000,000 would pay $5,000,000, and since there would be no deductions/credits they would actually pay the $5 Million.
 
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