giving defoliation during flower a try

jacksthc

Well-Known Member
At a little over a year into growing I am a Noob.
I have been growing the same strain For the whole year, flowering one at a time.
I now keep a Mom and Clones in my E/B veg under 216 watt T5HO.
So my Bagseed and clones that I am working are a Sativa dom Hybrid that flowers in nine weeks exactly.

During my first flower attempts I struggled not knowing why.
Every 9 weeks I flowered a plant each time getter a little smarter.

But I had drank the cool aid ;-/
(and I think it's Wearing off thanks to many Oldtimers here on RIU and my own experiments of food mixing to fulfill the needs of the plants responses in growth or weakness as I witnessed them.
Each time Flowered I dialed into making one food, I don't know the NPK values off hand.

My food, fox Farm hydro three part with three flowering additives for optimum out put.
(Yeah right....)
So I mix my Nutes my way not the way they tell me.
I always have my High N veg food in my mix, then my microbes and then a high P and K additive to run about 1000-1005 PPM for my flowering and the same ratio at 650 PPM for my veg.
I measure ppm with a meter and I use A syringe to measure foods
1/3 third N food, 1/3 microbes, 1/3, P/K to get to 1000 - 1005 PPM then PH up to 5.8by the gallon.

That is not how fox farm tells you to grow, that's for sure!

I always heavy a large dose of N in every feeding.

I TRY and keep my plants healthy till the end of flower I flower under a 400 watts HPS with T5 side lighting.
My highest weight was 10 ounces the 4 others were others 8, 6, 6, 7 ounces respectively all from flowering one plant at a time.
Proper LST, super cropping and selective topping in veg and then tying branches down to cause inner shoots to fill in the canopy. I vegged the 10 oz plant 7 months.
(I started a bunch of seeds from a bag of bud at the same time.
20 seeds, I had 16 males that I killed off and 4 females that I started to train early I waited 60 days before I flowered.
I let them all grow and kept training them as they waited in turn to be flowered.
I am know running clones from the last of the 4 original females.

At NO time did I defoliate, I tuck, I bend, I tie back but I don't remove the energy source of the plant.
Also when a plant has a health issue like a nute lockup (because I made a mistake)

It is the fan leaves that are canabilized by the plant to keep it getting the NPK ratio that the pheno needs to continue to grow.
The plant then can bounce back after lockup and gets fixed to allow green growth.
Not die off or grow smaller buds because fan leaves were removed.

Removal of a fan leaf stunts growth at that exact Node.

You might force more bud sites but they are smaller in general for the lights and foods everyone uses.

I run a pretty small simple deal, one 3x3 tent and a veg in a closet.

So far I am happy and I think I produce pretty good for one plant at a time , a plant that has 40-50 tops.
I will continue to try and balance my Nutes myself.

Good luck to you....
You Defoliate, damn how can it be good to take away the solar feeding source of the plant, take away the transpiration source of the plant and take away the "battery source". All things done by the fan leaves.
Why would defoliating work?

I ate some cookies and I am VERY high so I may have "ran at the fingers".
Bless,
DZ
Removel of a fan leaf does stunt the node where the fan leaf is taken

well thats how I know which fan leaves to remove

and thats how main line works
don't they even make a comment like leave the fan leave attached to the shoot as will help the shoot grow

I know lower fan leaves help all the higher side shoots

From what I understood is a fan leaf adjacent to a shoot need the light to use the water and nutes from the roots

so if the fan leaves not there the nutes will be directed to next lowest fan leaf adjacent to node/side shoot

So it more of a control over the flow of energy from the roots




Good to see others members training the same way as me :)
 
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CaretakerDad

Well-Known Member
Removel of a fan leaf does stunt the node where the fan leaf is taken

well thats how I know which fan leaves to remove

and thats how main line works
don't they even make a comment like leave the fan leave attached to the shoot as will help the shoot grow

I know lower fan leaves help all the higher side shoots

From what I understood is a fan leaf adjacent to a shoot need the light to use the water and nutes from the roots

so if the fan leaves not there the nutes will be directed to next lowest fan leaf adjacent to node/side shoot

Good to see others members training the same way as me :)
The problem you defoliators fail to grasp is that without those pesky fan leaves, there is less transpiration (that is the movement of water up through the root system caused by evaporation which occurs at the stomata located in the underside of the leaves). It is the movement of this water that creates the pathway for nutrient uptake. Period. Without the energy captured by those fan leaves there is no carbohydrate production and nothing is trans-located to those precious budsites. The explosive growth you defoliators imagine is the plant working desperately to replace what you have removed by redirecting available energy to this task. And that is why us book smart folks don't rape our plants.
 

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
And you still get popcorn buds at the lower levels. Noobs, keep parroting the same ol bullshit as parroted by the former new crop of noobs that went before you. This isn't about light.
I definitely don't have the years in that you have, seeing as I wasn't born during the Ming Dynasty. You are one that say's simply move the leaf away from the bud site, right? ( I ain't talking about popcorn). Why? Does it have something to do with more light to that bud.? If I cut that ONE leaf, what do you think, really, are the consequences? I say NONE! Now, I do not, never have, and never will cut the majority of the fans. Why would anyone do that? But trimming lower useless branches, to allow access if I grow in soil containers, or certain fans that BLOCK light to a large bud, then I chop, chop, chop. I bet you grow outdoors, right? Talk to me after you have grown an average sized Indica with a spacing of 12" apart in a hydro system. Have you ever done hydro? By the way, I ain't no noob you fucking dinosaur.
 

CaretakerDad

Well-Known Member
I definitely don't have the years in that you have, seeing as I wasn't born during the Ming Dynasty. You are one that say's simply move the leaf away from the bud site, right? ( I ain't talking about popcorn). Why? Does it have something to do with more light to that bud.? If I cut that ONE leaf, what do you think, really, are the consequences? I say NONE! Now, I do not, never have, and never will cut the majority of the fans. Why would anyone do that? But trimming lower useless branches, to allow access if I grow in soil containers, or certain fans that BLOCK light to a large bud, then I chop, chop, chop. I bet you grow outdoors, right? Talk to me after you have grown an average sized Indica with a spacing of 12" apart in a hydro system. Have you ever done hydro? By the way, I ain't no noob you fucking dinosaur.
Actually you are half correct. Pruning to remove weak or diseased shoots or leaves is good botanical practice and can be enhanced some to provide good airflow. Removing fan leaves for mythical internet concocted reasons is not.
 

Dogenzengi

Well-Known Member
I will take any advice I get Uncle Buck.
If you only corrected one statement did I get the rest correct?
I appreciate the wisdom!
Bless,
DZ
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I definitely don't have the years in that you have, seeing as I wasn't born during the Ming Dynasty. You are one that say's simply move the leaf away from the bud site, right?
No, I have never made such a statement.

( I ain't talking about popcorn). Why? Does it have something to do with more light to that bud.? If I cut that ONE leaf, what do you think, really, are the consequences? I say NONE!
You can "SAY" whatever you want, doesn't mean it's so. See my sig line in red.

Now, I do not, never have, and never will cut the majority of the fans. Why would anyone do that? But trimming lower useless branches, to allow access if I grow in soil containers, or certain fans that BLOCK light to a large bud, then I chop, chop, chop. I bet you grow outdoors, right? Talk to me after you have grown an average sized Indica with a spacing of 12" apart in a hydro system. Have you ever done hydro? By the way, I ain't no noob you fucking dinosaur.
I'd rather be a wise ol dinosaur than some snot nosed young sophomore (wise ol fool).
 

Stompromper

Well-Known Member
But you're only wise in your own ways, do not have a mind open to any other ideas and believe if its not your way its the wrong way.. but I guess that's where the fool comes into play ey?
 

jacksthc

Well-Known Member
The problem you defoliators fail to grasp is that without those pesky fan leaves, there is less transpiration (that is the movement of water up through the root system caused by evaporation which occurs at the stomata located in the underside of the leaves). It is the movement of this water that creates the pathway for nutrient uptake. Period. Without the energy captured by those fan leaves there is no carbohydrate production and nothing is trans-located to those precious budsites. The explosive growth you defoliators imagine is the plant working desperately to replace what you have removed by redirecting available energy to this task. And that is why us book smart folks don't rape our plants.
The problem with you anti defoliators is you think we need to remove every fan leaf off the plant, that's not the case for me at least
I start removing fan leaves in early veg up to the 2 week in flower (12/12)

removing a few fan leaves helps to control the canopy shape, increases airflow and reduces humidity, (the movement of water up through the root system caused by evaporation which occurs at the stomata located in the underside of the leaves) "is the reason it drops the humidity"

In flower I do like to see a full canopy with good air flow and low humidity 30-40 and that's why I remove some fan leaves.
if the humidity is lower, the fan leaves and roots work a little harder often resulting in me having to water 10 ltrs every 2 days (4 plants in 14ltr buckets)
haven't removed any fan leaves in flower this time around and kept the humidity 50 and I water every 3 days

(The explosive growth you defoliators imagine is the plant working desperately to replace what you have removed by redirecting available energy to this task. And that is why us book smart folks don't rape our plants)

This comment you made could be directed at lst, topping, super cropping ect
most techniques make the plant work desperately to replace what you have removed by redirecting available energy to this task, that's the hole point of doing it in the first place lol
 

Hot Diggity Sog

Well-Known Member
The problem with you anti defoliators is you think we need to remove every fan leaf off the plant, that's not the case for me at least
I start removing fan leaves in early veg up to the 2 week in flower (12/12)

removing a few fan leaves helps to control the canopy shape, increases airflow and reduces humidity, (the movement of water up through the root system caused by evaporation which occurs at the stomata located in the underside of the leaves) "is the reason it drops the humidity"

In flower I do like to see a full canopy with good air flow and low humidity 30-40 and that's why I remove some fan leaves.
if the humidity is lower, the fan leaves and roots work a little harder often resulting in me having to water 10 ltrs every 2 days (4 plants in 14ltr buckets)
haven't removed any fan leaves in flower this time around and kept the humidity 50 and I water every 3 days

(The explosive growth you defoliators imagine is the plant working desperately to replace what you have removed by redirecting available energy to this task. And that is why us book smart folks don't rape our plants)

This comment you made could be directed at lst, topping, super cropping ect
most techniques make the plant work desperately to replace what you have removed by redirecting available energy to this task, that's the hole point of doing it in the first place lol
Very nice answer :)
 

CaretakerDad

Well-Known Member
The problem with you anti defoliators is you think we need to remove every fan leaf off the plant, that's not the case for me at least
I start removing fan leaves in early veg up to the 2 week in flower (12/12)

removing a few fan leaves helps to control the canopy shape, increases airflow and reduces humidity, (the movement of water up through the root system caused by evaporation which occurs at the stomata located in the underside of the leaves) "is the reason it drops the humidity"

In flower I do like to see a full canopy with good air flow and low humidity 30-40 and that's why I remove some fan leaves.
if the humidity is lower, the fan leaves and roots work a little harder often resulting in me having to water 10 ltrs every 2 days (4 plants in 14ltr buckets)
haven't removed any fan leaves in flower this time around and kept the humidity 50 and I water every 3 days

(The explosive growth you defoliators imagine is the plant working desperately to replace what you have removed by redirecting available energy to this task. And that is why us book smart folks don't rape our plants)

This comment you made could be directed at lst, topping, super cropping ect
most techniques make the plant work desperately to replace what you have removed by redirecting available energy to this task, that's the hole point of doing it in the first place lol
LST, Supercropping, and judicious pruning should not be confused with removing fan leaves, but I understand why you choose to do so as it seems to you to justify bad botany.
 

Stompromper

Well-Known Member
I haven't given out any bad advice.. lets see your grows, throw them up! I've hundreds of photos to backup my grows. Throw yours up. Ill throw up mine, and I invite you to point out where I went wrong. But you can't, Ill tell you that right now.
 

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
Awww sheeeeiiiiit... grow throw down!!

CareTaker has posted his grows, if I remember right he grows monster plants that look like trees.:weed:
 
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