giving defoliation during flower a try

TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Yeah, let's go there. Dig it up.

Again, you gave him bad advice which result in more harm to his plants. Mg deficiencies, if any, show up on the lower leaves not upper. Being that most if not all growers use some form of Mg supplements, it is highly unlikely. I mean if you have some problem then come up with the most common, dumbass forum advice and blame it on pH or Mg.

Leaf cupping is the plant trying to tell you that is has a moisture stress problem. See my thread in Plant Problems https://www.rollitup.org/t/plant-moisture-stress-symptoms-and-solutions.150004/

Upper leaf chlorosis is due to one or more micro deficiencies, the most common being Fe and Zn.
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uncle ben, what is it when your leaves are curling down from stem to tips,almost droopy looking?? all my plants in dwc have leaves facing up to the light wile 3 purple buds by seedsman all have leaves curling down..in dwc all plants getting the same nuts and air, 24 plants are completely happy wile those 3 are not?? just a finicky strain?? im getting rid of it, but still would like to know why its unhappy wile all the others look great?? the purple bud leaves are sativa dom and a very light green almost yellow and droopy, all other strains are dark green and up..
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
So.... gave up on your vs you're huh... :lol:

What you feed your plants is not relevant. If you were any good at your job you would immediately and automatically know that 1400 ppm and that cal mag is the problem. I use H&G at less than half the chart-level and don't use calmag...

What does AN and Canna have to do with it....

H&G has plenty of Ca (11%) and is that is information from H&G I posted more than a few times because it's a common issue, people thinking they need to 'feed' calmag. Give them a call...

There's no such thing as a 'heavy feeder'. All cannabis plants fit within a range that is lower than you want it to be. As you made clear many pages ago, you belong in the newbie section, you don't know what a plant is and you certainly should NOT be giving any advice about nutrients, zero.

Scammer.

He's really living up to that cartoon of the stubborn ass you posted.
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hey satived, can u check out my journal again im asking questions on trimming before flower and not sure if i do it day 1 of flower or some time before so plants recover, also wondering if i should keep the lower lighting, got T5's now but not sure if i should replace the t12's w/them or hang them above w/ the hps's or just dont use...any info would be apreaciated hoping i can increace yields on next run w/ everyones opinions...pinching all but top 3 nodes before flower or topping only if i can veg long enough to recover before the flip..
 
Hydroburn

Hydroburn

Well-Known Member
pk_boosted2 said:
After going through everything ive found im leaning towards this dude having a ph issue. He told me it was good but im gonna assume his pen hasnt been calibrated in awhile and its probably off. Its quite poss he doing eveything correctly and mixing his nutes to what he think is the correct number and its proly too low or too high causing a problem locking out a few macro nutrients. Have wait til he comes in again to find out.

Def flushing his containers w the small amount of epsom salts to leach his medium is not anything wrong in so doing. Many people wil tell u that using salts even any commercial salts are how to properly flush ur medium anyways so i really dont think thats an issue at all. As ive done plenty of times and never hurts anything so making a crass statement like that is a little moronic honestly. He def isnt over feeding calcium cuz he would be having other issues than just a P deficiency if that was the case which doesnt seem to be the problem at all.
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I hate ph pens... have a blue labs and a hannah and neither one would stay calibrated longer than a couple days; if that. Nothing fucks up a flower run like keeping the ph at 4.2 thinking you are setting it to 5.8. Now they are so far off they won't even calibrate anymore. Just use the liquid drops now... always accurate, and since I don't have to calibrate shit every day, it is easier and cheaper too.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
cannawizard said:
---isn't "flushing" a technique which reduces/removes the amount of "salt(s) build-up" in your mediums? then why would you flush with epsom salts (wouldn't that just make matters worse)? can you point me in the direction of a horti/agri study which used "epsom salts" as a leaching agent :)
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That was my point.

That ridiculous practice (adding salt to the injury) is a perfect example of what separates too many cannabis growers from the bonafide horticultural community, the latter being farmers, greenhouse managers, plant nurseries and of course university gardening professionals, farm aka extension agents, research and developers.
 
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Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
uncle ben, what is it when your leaves are curling down from stem to tips,almost droopy looking?? all my plants in dwc have leaves facing up to the light wile 3 purple buds by seedsman all have leaves curling down..in dwc all plants getting the same nuts and air, 24 plants are completely happy wile those 3 are not?? just a finicky strain?? im getting rid of it, but still would like to know why its unhappy wile all the others look great?? the purple bud leaves are sativa dom and a very light green almost yellow and droopy, all other strains are dark green and up..
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Maybe it's not unhappy, maybe it's just the way it is (phenotype). What's the NPK ratios you're feeding it and the micro content of the foods? Why get rid of it? Running out of room?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Hydroburn said:
I hate ph pens... have a blue labs and a hannah and neither one would stay calibrated longer than a couple days; if that. Nothing fucks up a flower run like keeping the ph at 4.2 thinking you are setting it to 5.8. Now they are so far off they won't even calibrate anymore. Just use the liquid drops now... always accurate, and since I don't have to calibrate shit every day, it is easier and cheaper too.
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I have 2 Hanna pH meters, both Checker 1. Never had a problem with them, then again, I clean them and store them properly.
 
waterdawg

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
^^^^ I have a cheap HM and yes I have to calibrate it but two years old and still trucking along. I have had to expensive bluelab and they lasted a year.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
those cheap yellow milwaukee ph pens never have problems. but as UB said, proper storage is key. After I started using jacks, It ph's the water to like 6.8 and using pro mix has cal. and dol. lime. I really don't even use mine but to do checks occasionally.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I rinse the electrode real well with tap water. The rubber cap has a small dollop of cotton in it soaked with Hanna's Storage solution. One thing you don't want to do is to rinse with distilled water and then store.
 
waterdawg

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
^^^^ seen lots of people post "jee I store it distilled water and its broke" lol. Also not sure if it works but tech at one of the companies told me it may come back if you let it sit in very hot water overnight till water cools. Tried it and it still was fucked! Blue lab does back there product though, just send it back and they'll give you a new one.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I spent more on Hanna meters than nutrients... currently got one (wall mountable 150 bucks ph+temp meter) that has a leak LCD, like an ink spot over the decimal value of the temperature that is growing slowly over time. First one blew up. They sent me a new one then, which was cool cause that basically gave me an extra probe for free.

I got one of these as well, 3 point calibration and more consistent than my hanna meters:
http://www.amazon.com/Oakton-EcoTestr-Waterproof-Tester-Range/dp/B004G8PWAU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/191-9766585-1805954
 
pk_boosted2

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
Hydroburn said:
I hate ph pens... have a blue labs and a hannah and neither one would stay calibrated longer than a couple days; if that. Nothing fucks up a flower run like keeping the ph at 4.2 thinking you are setting it to 5.8. Now they are so far off they won't even calibrate anymore. Just use the liquid drops now... always accurate, and since I don't have to calibrate shit every day, it is easier and cheaper too.
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He just called me this morning so i met him down at the shop and tested his ph pen and his soil meter. The pen was over 1 whole point off and the soil pen was off a couple points not much. So basically his root ph was 5.4-5.7 and not the 6.0-6.2 he thought it was. And he basically thought he was feeding around 6.3 and it was actually around 5.0-5.2 so hopefully this will get him back on track. He has the cheaper hanna meter so i sold him a blue lab for a good price and the solutions for it. Thats one thing about meters the cheap ones constantly fuck up every few days. Blue labs r pricey but well worth the money imo.

In regards to flushing w epsom salts, if u read the post i said he was having cupping and yellowing on some leaves which was a mag deficiency so i told him to add 1 tbsp per 5 gallons of water which is very light. i just wanted to have him use some salts that i know will bind and push the excess nutes he had in his containers out of his pots bcuz his ppm was on higher end of where i would like him to be. His readings were mid 1000s. So using epsom salts is a common practice people use to flush their mediums with i know many people who do it myself included and it does work. I also use an enzyme when i flush to break down additional salts in the medium to push em off and throught the roots. Some ppl also use 1/4 strength nutrients to flush because it works better than straight water because salts bind and push out better by diluting whats in the containers its same thing as the epsom salts but i didnt want him to add any more ferts and fuck shit up more than it was already.

Like i said before u guys have your ways of doing things and i have mine. Theres more than 1 way to skin a cat. And after he flushed the first time a few weeks ago he did say that the cupping and yellowing on top had stopped and wasnt getting any worse so that portion of his problem seemed to be solved. Anyways i think the fact his ph meter was so far off was causing lock out of P and K which was leading to the leaf drop and issues he is having, and hopefully within the next week he can get back on track while making sure the problem doesnt progress i think he will be good now.

Problem wih the ph pens and meters especially the cheap ones is that they need to be calibrated so often. I recommend blue labs ive used a bunch they seem to be the best and most accurate and actually stay calibrated if you make sure u have the storage solution keeping the tips moist. The main problem is people dont keep them hydrated and have issues, they have to have storage solution on the sensor otherwise they will not work and can be permanently damaged. Nice thing about blue lab is im certified for repair etc so its 100% money bacj guarantee if anyone has any issues with their meters which def worth the extra cost imo.
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
cannawizard said:
---isn't "flushing" a technique which reduces/removes the amount of "salt(s) build-up" in your mediums? then why would you flush with epsom salts (wouldn't that just make matters worse)? can you point me in the direction of a horti/agri study which used "epsom salts" as a leaching agent :)
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His assumption is adding a little salt helps grab the leftover salts and removes them. Scientifically he's kinda right. But then I'd do an RO water rinse behind it. Like useing oil to breakdown the grease on your hands after working on your car, takes the heaviest off but you still need to wash the rest off..
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
pk_boosted2 said:
He just called me this morning so i met him down at the shop and tested his ph pen and his soil meter. The pen was over 1 whole point off and the soil pen was off a couple points not much. So basically his root ph was 5.4-5.7 and not the 6.0-6.2 he thought it was. And he basically thought he was feeding around 6.3 and it was actually around 5.0-5.2 so hopefully this will get him back on track. He has the cheaper hanna meter so i sold him a blue lab for a good price and the solutions for it. Thats one thing about meters the cheap ones constantly fuck up every few days. Blue labs r pricey but well worth the money imo.

In regards to flushing w epsom salts, if u read the post i said he was having cupping and yellowing on some leaves which was a mag deficiency so i told him to add 1 tbsp per 5 gallons of water which is very light. i just wanted to have him use some salts that i know will bind and push the excess nutes he had in his containers out of his pots bcuz his ppm was on higher end of where i would like him to be. His readings were mid 1000s. So using epsom salts is a common practice people use to flush their mediums with i know many people who do it myself included and it does work. I also use an enzyme when i flush to break down additional salts in the medium to push em off and throught the roots. Some ppl also use 1/4 strength nutrients to flush because it works better than straight water because salts bind and push out better by diluting whats in the containers its same thing as the epsom salts but i didnt want him to add any more ferts and fuck shit up more than it was already.

Like i said before u guys have your ways of doing things and i have mine. Theres more than 1 way to skin a cat. And after he flushed the first time a few weeks ago he did say that the cupping and yellowing on top had stopped and wasnt getting any worse so that portion of his problem seemed to be solved. Anyways i think the fact his ph meter was so far off was causing lock out of P and K which was leading to the leaf drop and issues he is having, and hopefully within the next week he can get back on track while making sure the problem doesnt progress i think he will be good now.

Problem wih the ph pens and meters especially the cheap ones is that they need to be calibrated so often. I recommend blue labs ive used a bunch they seem to be the best and most accurate and actually stay calibrated if you make sure u have the storage solution keeping the tips moist. The main problem is people dont keep them hydrated and have issues, they have to have storage solution on the sensor otherwise they will not work and can be permanently damaged. Nice thing about blue lab is im certified for repair etc so its 100% money bacj guarantee if anyone has any issues with their meters which def worth the extra cost imo.
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Dude, back on page 104 I started to post ph pens go off all the time with lazy people. Glad you figured it out. Being a hydro owner you should have questioned his equipment or procedure for getting his results. Anybody that's dealt with the public long enough knows the public is generally very stupid and they lie so they don't look stupid. Which makes them actually look stupider. Just saying.....
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Maybe it's not unhappy, maybe it's just the way it is (phenotype). What's the NPK ratios you're feeding it and the micro content of the foods? Why get rid of it? Running out of room?
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i feed all my plants the cheap but reliable G.H maxi series, ive done comparisons w/ it in the past its always come out on top. i also use G.h. koolbloom pwder the last 2 weeks of bloom and mad farmers nutrient uptake solution or GH diamond nector which ever is available, wright now its mad farmers. not out of room, it just doesnt produce as well as my other strains and its getting to be a bitch running 12 diferent strains at once..i also just started 4 more strains so i have to do away with someone and she just isnt what i hoped for...i just recieved some tips from satieved and plan to start topping and bending tec's for my next run..check it out if you want, it in journals,,Chemist77 pic journal,,, youll see the 3 purple buds in the back of row 4..
 
waterdawg

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
I spent more on Hanna meters than nutrients... currently got one (wall mountable 150 bucks ph+temp meter) that has a leak LCD, like an ink spot over the decimal value of the temperature that is growing slowly over time. First one blew up. They sent me a new one then, which was cool cause that basically gave me an extra probe for free.

I got one of these as well, 3 point calibration and more consistent than my hanna meters:
http://www.amazon.com/Oakton-EcoTestr-Waterproof-Tester-Range/dp/B004G8PWAU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/191-9766585-1805954
Click to expand...
My first one was an oakton pen, lasted one year. It was that tech who suggested the hot water soak.
 
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