Heisenbeans Genetics

Some people are great at reversing females, and others are great at explaining it.

If you self an S1 plant without introducing pollen to another mother plant, its still just an S1 of that plant.

Heisenbeans said:

Absolutely, whatever it takes man to make u happy

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Please put me down for that too.

HydroRed said:

So if I grow out an S1 and just self it with some cs and pop the seeds...its an S2? That doesnt sound right? I thought if you cross the S1 with the original parent , then it becomes an S2, not a Bx.

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A child plant crossed back to the original mom is a back cross aka BX. An f2 would be the child seeds bred together instead of using any of the original parents. So taking 2 children and breeding them together is always considered F2 seeds. So I would have to say an s1 selected and reversed would make S2 seeds

HydroRed said:

If you self an S1 plant without introducing pollen to another mother plant, its still just an S1 of that plant.

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Technically it is an s1 but for record keeping purposes in lineage it would be considered an s2 so if someone ask what is that. Yeah it's an s2 seed of GG4 meaning a selected mom from s1 stock reversed.

Heisenbeans said:

A child plant crossed back to the original mom is a back cross aka BX. An f2 would be the child seeds bred together instead of using any of the original parents. So taking 2 children and breeding them together is always considered F2 seeds. So I would have to say an s1 selected and reversed would make S2 seeds

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Self'd plants are not F2 but S1, somewhere on icmag it's broken down in great detail by geneticists someone go grab some excerpts before this gets ugly.

Heisenbeans said:

Technically it is an s1 but for record keeping purposes in lineage it would be considered an s2 so if someone ask what is that. Yeah it's an s2 seed of GG4 meaning a selected mom from s1 stock reversed.

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But he was asking if you selfed an S1 from glue, and just only used seeds from that original selfed S1...its still an S1. There were no other plants introduced to make it an S2. Until a mother plant is introduced, it will always just be an S1.

Every breeder seems to have there own terminology for this shit. I was talking to someone about this the other day. All this F1 BX

CannaBruh said:

Self'd plants are not F2 but S1, somewhere on icmag it's broken down in great detail by geneticists someone go grab some excerpts before this gets ugly.

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I never said anything about a selfed plant becoming an F2. If you reverse a female all of her babies wil be S1s. If you take one of her babies and self it you cannot call it an F2 because technically that's what it is without the second parent so it would need to be called and S2 to keep up with the lineage so people will know it's a selfed child of a clone only. You can also say yeah it's a selfed child of X strain or just say GG4 s2 lol.

HydroRed said:

But he was asking if you selfed an S1 from glue, and just only used seeds from that original selfed S1...its still an S1. There were no other plants introduced to make it an S2. Until a mother plant is introduced, it will always just be an S1.

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I would say for record keeping purposes it would have to be an S2 because the number only represents generations in the crosses. Why even put a 1 behind the S and not just an S cross. Like an F2 or F5 those numbers stand for generations in the cross. Why not just say GG4S why even put the 1?

Heisenbeans said:

I would say for record keeping purposes it would have to be an S2 because the number only represents generations in the crosses. Why even put a 1 behind the S and not just an S cross. Like an F2 or F5 those numbers stand for generations in the cross. Why not just say GG4S why even put the 1?

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Because there was no cross or mothers introduced with pollen of the S1's. If it were that easy breeders would be on S77's+ with the glue right now lol.

I'm diggin the civil discussion fellas.

I think for all intensive purposes if a breeder pops a pack of s1s and selects a female and uses her to breed with he should call her the strain name and add an S2 at the end of it but alot of breeders wont do that and just call it the real instead of telling people they don't have the cut when I reality there using an s1 mom to breed with. Making s1 seeds from a GG4 s1 plant would NOT be GG4 s1s and would be misleading and out right bullshit. If I took a GG4 s1 plant and back crossed it to the original mom of GG4 it would be a BXS1 gg4 cross.

intents*^ sorry, that one really bothers me. Nearly everyone in my family says intensive...lol They hate when I corrct them, I won't mind if you do as well.

Heisenbeans said:

I think for all intensive purposes if a breeder pops a pack of s1s and selects a female and uses her to breed with he should call her the strain name and add an S2 at the end of it but alot of breeders wont do that and just call it the real instead of telling people they don't have the cut when I reality there using an s1 mom to breed with. Making s1 seeds from a GG4 s1 plant would NOT be GG4 s1s and would be misleading and out right bullshit. If I took a GG4 s1 plant and back crossed it to the original mom of GG4 it would be a BXS1 gg4 cross.

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Thats what I was saying. If a plant is selfed, then you self those seeds, its still just an S1 every time until another plant (aside from the current S1's) is introduced to "cross" with or until you pollenate the original mom with the pollen from your current S1's.

HydroRed said:

Because there was no cross or mothers introduced with pollen of the S1's. If it were that easy breeders would be on S77's+ with the glue right now lol.

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That's the way it should be because someone selling s1s of an s1 plant is bullshit by calling those GG4 s1s when those never even came from the actual mother plant.
I'm also not talking about clone only plants being recut and recloned. The clone only never changes but if you reverse the glue and take those seeds and select a mom than reverse her THEY CANNOT be s1 GG4 seeds. They are second generation s1s. Tech ically S2s so people would know what they have

My thing was, what to call the beans of an s1 of itself. Take s1 bean,take two clones, reverse one,hit the other. still s1's right?

we were posting at the same time.

HydroRed said:

Thats what I was saying. If a plant is selfed, then you self those seeds, its still just an S1 every time until another plant (aside from the current S1's) is introduced to "cross" with or until you pollenate the original mom with the pollen from your current S1's.

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The number behind the letter only stands for generation it isn't the number of plants used in a cross.

Lol..another monkey wrench to throw in the mix.
Do you get other variations or phenotypic expressions from said beans? Like, will those beans show some other traits the mom(original s1 bean) had in her?

CoB_nUt said:

Lol..another monkey wrench to throw in the mix.
Do you get other variations or phenotypic expressions from said beans? Like, will those beans show some other traits the mom(original s1 bean) had in her?

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If a breeder truly wanted to stabilize a strain they could pop a few hundred s1s and select a mother as close to the original as possible and than back cross. Those back crosses would be great stock but nothing wilm be as close to original mom than an S1 or F1 cross.
The reason breeders back cross is trying to get close to a mom when they only had F1 seeds to work with from the beginning and a Male used that wasnt close to the target strain.
F1S and S1s are always gonna be the best crosses IMO because trying to select generations only gets further away unless the breeder is looking for something different.

CoB_nUt said:

My thing was, what to call the beans of an s1 of itself. Take s1 bean,take two clones, reverse one,hit the other. still s1's right?

we were posting at the same time.

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An S1 of itself is still going to be an S1. If you selfed an S1 and took pollen from that and pollinated the original mom, then you would have legit S2's and they would probably be a real close representation of the original cut with less variation.

Heisenbeans said:

The number behind the letter only stands for generation it isn't the number of plants used in a cross.

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I understand that, but there never going to be anything but an S1 until another plant is introduced aside from "brother/sister" plants. It would be totally pointless to breed "brother & sister" from the same S1's. Isnt that why breeders bx is to solidify genes and breed in/out certain traits? Those genomes never change unless you do.

CoB_nUt said:

Lol..another monkey wrench to throw in the mix.
Do you get other variations or phenotypic expressions from said beans? Like, will those beans show some other traits the mom(original s1 bean) had in her?

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You will get different variations from S1's compared to the original that the S1seeds came from. If you plant 6 GG4 S1's and you find one that is close to the original cut of Glue, then selfed that, and pollinate the original mom you will be dialing in the desired traits making your seeds a closer representation of the original cut. If you bought true S2' or better, it would be a safe bet that your gonna have some fire plants real damn close to the original GG4 cut.