High School Dropouts

Locked in school till your 18 or grad high school... go Obama.
Soon, Obama will require the kids to wear uniforms. Which , if you really think about it...not a bad idea.
Strip away the individualism and you just got more sheep.

I'm going to be sarcastic now.
I like sexy young girl to drop out of school. Because, without them. The strip clubs will only have Grandmas dancing...

Truth is the USA education system is BROKEN!

Ringsixty said:

Locked in school till your 18 or grad high school... go Obama.
Soon, Obama will require the kids to wear uniforms. Which , if you really think about it...not a bad idea.
Strip away the individualism and you just got more sheep.

I'm going to be sarcastic now.
I like sexy young girl to drop out of school. Because, without them. The strip clubs will only have Grandmas dancing...

Truth is the USA education system is BROKEN!

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Actually schools with uniforms tend to perform much better then those that allow students to wear whatever...Clothes should not be the only way that you can show your individualism...

mountaingarden said:

Oh yeah....pot was $10 a "lid", old school for ounce, but it was loaded with seeds!

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...and stems...don't forget the stems!

Forcing a person to attend school under threat of punishment ? Hmmm....sweet land of liberty? Don't think so.

Rob Roy said:

Forcing a person to attend school under threat of punishment ? Hmmm....sweet land of liberty? Don't think so.

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Under 18 ??? No liberty for you unless we adults say so.

Now, GET OFF MY LAWN !!

WillyBagseed said:

Under 18 ??? No liberty for you unless we adults say so.

Now, GET OFF MY LAWN !!

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I will gladly honor your property rights and step off your lawn if that is your wish. However having been born when Eisenhower was President I've qualified as an adult for some time.

londonfog said:

are we really arguing that a high school diploma is useless and that you really don't need it ???? and we wonder why other countries are passing us by ..I use shit I learned in highschool everyday.. I like the the idea of want Obama is saying, but some people just want to be stuck on stupid and forcing them to stay would only hurt the other kids that want to learn..... but if you drop out you should not be allowed to vote until you are 21 or get a GED/or join military...and remember at the job that you are most likely to get, that I like my fries without salt and no pickles on my burger please.

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Really dude? You want to try to argue that high school dropouts are the cause?? It really never occurred to you that the education system causes drop outs to raise?

I'm not arguing that a high school diploma is useless, other people in this thread are so I recognize why you posted that. I'm arguing that getting a high school diploma is not the right/best path for everybody.

Here is the most appalling part of your post: You always debate on the side of income inequality, achievement gaps, money in politics, etc. Yet, while students of low income families drop out of high school 5 times as much as high income, you decide to argue that drop outs shouldn't be allowed to vote, get a GED, or join the military?

By the way, your example of fast food being the most likely job is bullshit. The sales industry hires a ridiculous amount of people with no diploma/GED and yet that industry has an average wage of $59,000 (http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-sales). The problem is the drop outs who work at fast food are the ones who are picky about their jobs or are to lazy. So therefore, the fact of not having a diploma does not mean the outcome is directly because of that.

timeismoney1 said:

Ok so you named 50 out pf the millions. Wheres the list for famous diploma ppl? Lets compare

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So if I were to provide a list of those who did, what would that prove? There could be 10 times as many people on that list and it wouldn't validate your point, it would only make you think it did. Here is why: Average high school drop out rate in America (according to http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16) is only 8.1%. What does this mean? It means that just because more people have a diploma are rich does not mean a higher percentage of people who have a diploma are compared to those that don't.

Nice try, though. Statistics are very tricky and can be used to prove any point you want. Trust me.

sync0s said:

Really dude? You want to try to argue that high school dropouts are the cause?? It really never occurred to you that the education system causes drop outs to raise?

I'm not arguing that a high school diploma is useless, other people in this thread are so I recognize why you posted that. I'm arguing that getting a high school diploma is not the right/best path for everybody.

Here is the most appalling part of your post: You always debate on the side of income inequality, achievement gaps, money in politics, etc. Yet, while students of low income families drop out of high school 5 times as much as high income, you decide to argue that drop outs shouldn't be allowed to vote, get a GED, or join the military?

By the way, your example of fast food being the most likely job is bullshit. The sales industry hires a ridiculous amount of people with no diploma/GED and yet that industry has an average wage of $59,000 (http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-sales). The problem is the drop outs who work at fast food are the ones who are picky about their jobs or are to lazy. So therefore, the fact of not having a diploma does not mean the outcome is directly because of that.

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please go back and reread my post...I said if you drop out you should not vote UNTIL you are 21 and/or get a GED and/or join the service... You go ahead and teach your kids that its ok for some to drop out of highschool ( maybe they can be the one, since you think its ok)...I will continue to teach mine the value of staying in school.... and please the level of work for MOST without a high school diploma will keep you at the poverty level.

londonfog said:

please go back and reread my post...I said if you drop out you should not vote UNTIL you are 21 and/or get a GED and/or join the service... You go ahead and teach your kids that its ok for some to drop out of highschool ( maybe they can be the one, since you think its ok)...I will continue to teach mine the value of staying in school.... and please the level of work for MOST without a high school diploma will keep you at the poverty level.

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Why shouldn't you be able to vote until you were 21? We want to keep the dumb poor kids out of poll booths? Seriously, give me a reason.

I never said I would teach my kids that it is okay to drop out, nice straw man.

Never said it wouldn't result in most being near poverty, but nobody ever argued the point that when kids drop out they don't already know it. This argument is like you taking up the side of banning cigarettes. Everybody knows you'll probably die from it.

I think most people should either drop out of highschool or at least quit after highschool and avoid collage- Most people only need a grade school education- sixth grade is all most should need.

UncleBuck said:

i agree, i think it is smart policy, but it does have unintended consequences that others have pointed out.

perhaps if there were some type of opt out (get your GED and go type of thing) i would be all for it. and the fact that obama only urged states to do so, rather than making it a federal issue, was smart.

oh, and mountaingarden, besides the paddles, it was the same where i grew up. pray to hell that they don't leave a message on your parents' answering machine or that you got home before they did. and once again, a million thanks on the moving advice

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Imo, we need to stop shoving all kids into the same pigeon holes. Back in the days I'm talking about, there were two career paths available by about grade 9: voc-tech, or academic. Guys that learned by being shown and physically using their hands were provided with great, skilled teachers in wood and metal shops. Later they added automotive, and it was a source of hundreds of launched careers paying family wage jobs.

The true academic geniuses took purely academic classes, and went on to do many great things, never getting their hands dirty. Some of us walked a middle path and got an advanced degree while at the same time loved being outside and fixing things. Imo, that was best for me. Those who were far smarter than me, and 'way more skilled with a machine or a torch, but without the paper... ended up with harder lives. I went into management with a sound background in making things work, they ended up on L&I.

Get that stinkin' piece of paper if you can possibly pull it off. If you've got that, and something between your ears, it's easy. If you don't have the paper, but are smart....some asshole is going to take credit for your work time after time after time.

30 years has given me a lot of time to watch.

mountaingarden said:

Imo, we need to stop shoving all kids into the same pigeon holes. Back in the days I'm talking about, there were two career paths available by about grade 9: voc-tech, or academic. Guys that learned by being shown and physically using their hands were provided with great, skilled teachers in wood and metal shops. Later they added automotive, and it was a source of hundreds of launched careers paying family wage jobs.

The true academic geniuses took purely academic classes, and went on to do many great things, never getting their hands dirty. Some of us walked a middle path and got an advanced degree while at the same time loved being outside and fixing things. Imo, that was best for me. Those who were far smarter than me, and 'way more skilled with a machine or a torch, but without the paper... ended up with harder lives. I went into management with a sound background in making things work, they ended up on L&I.

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True shit, Bush ushered in an era where schools have to end all of the shop classes and start replacing them with more math/reading/etc classes.

sync0s said:

True shit, Bush ushered in an era where schools have to end all of the shop classes and start replacing them with more math/reading/etc classes.

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Bush should be litigated for any number of reasons, but NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND is Number One. Actually, it started with Ray-gun, when he made ketchup a vegetable and cut education funding. First thing school districts did was cram everybody into one slot and dumb it down. The results...catastrophic.

My daughter had an integrated math book that had 3 pages of trig. None mentioned Sine, Co-sine, or Tangent. Truly criminal. But she would have learned enough to score high "enough" of Bush's tests. I'd already taught her the rest at home...trig is my favorite math, and before that, she had algebra down stone cold at 10. Make it fun.

I dropped out, got my ged, went to community college, then went to university...In the IT field, we cannot find people that actually know Linux who went to school...they don't teach you Linux in school it has to be a passion. A lot of our employees are highschool dropouts who never went to college and now they make 35k to 100k or more a year. Everyday we get 100's of applicants that 'Went to school for computers' yet they know jack shit. We are desperate for people and schooling doesn't help any of them.

You know this idea of mandatory graduation hurts the inner city poor folks the most. If you are poor it is almost mandatory to drop out of highschool, thankfully that is an option or they would never make it to college or even survive.

No,.... sorry, Kids are Kids and need direction. Because "they" hold that diploma in such regard, one needs it, to get a Job interview. No interview, no job, ='s,, acts of desperation. Not all of us are cruising around with a 132+ IQ, to put the pieces together. It is an adults responsibility to direct a youth. More like the Parents, but I am being realistic here.

Cali chronic said:

No,.... sorry, Kids are Kids and need direction. Because "they" hold that diploma in such regard, one needs it, to get a Job interview. No interview, no job, ='s,, acts of desperation. Not all of us are cruising around with a 132+ IQ, to put the pieces together. It is an adults responsibility to direct a youth. More like the Parents, but I am being realistic here.

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Sure, but it isn't the governments job.

Cali chronic said:

No,.... sorry, Kids are Kids and need direction. Because "they" hold that diploma in such regard, one needs it, to get a Job interview. No interview, no job, ='s,, acts of desperation. Not all of us are cruising around with a 132+ IQ, to put the pieces together. It is an adults responsibility to direct a youth. More like the Parents, but I am being realistic here.

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100% agree, as long as we include a GED/vocational opt out and hardship exemptions.

sync0s said:

Sure, but it isn't the governments job.

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obama simply urged the 50 states to do so. i am a fan of the tenth amendment and would urge the same reform to our educational system.

education is not only a moral imperative, it is also a national security and economic issue.