How can we achieve a living wage?

Srirachi said:

I've never understood how people are able to decide which ones get to do the coercion and which ones have to be the coerced. A big war maybe?

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History decides.

What we must do as individuals is make a place for ourselves in the system that's been built by others who came before us as well as those building it today.

TacoMac said:

It's really just this simple: Make CEO pay no greater than 200% of the lowest paid employee.

Next thing you know, EVERYBODY is making a decent living. The sad part is that instead of being multi-billionaires, the rich would simply be multi-millionaires.

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Gosh. How AWFUL for them. They'll only have enough money to live well, instead of wretched excess with which to manipulate society...

TacoMac said:

It's really just this simple: Make CEO pay no greater than 200% of the lowest paid employee.

Next thing you know, EVERYBODY is making a decent living. The sad part is that instead of being multi-billionaires, the rich would simply be multi-millionaires.

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I have a thread on this suggestion.

I don't think it's a solution.

Taxing the profits of large corporations and the wealthy is a proven strategy that has worked here in the past, works in other countries now and would work just fine in America today- the only reason it isn't implemented is because we've given control over our political system- and therefore society- to those very same wealthy people.

ANC said:

We are a dead man walking.

But it also now makes you understand why those who can make things "better" don't...
It would only make things worse.

If you watched the video you would remember the list with the two sides, which either makes it better or makes the problem worse
War/peace, education/illiteracy etc....

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So that sounds suspiciously like advocating for exploitation.

Surely we can find a better way.

So what is your solution to growth in an environment of finite resources?

Ripped Farmer said:

Clothing isn't expensive, its your taste in clothing that is expensive.

500 bucks and I would have nice new clothes all year long. Should have enough for a winter coat at the end of it, too.

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the Nazi's didn't think clothing was important either. They liberated those on the trains of all their worldly goods by taking their suitcases and put yet on another train that wasn't going to the same place.

ANC said:

We are a dead man walking.

But it also now makes you understand why those who can make things "better" don't...
It would only make things worse.

If you watched the video you would remember the list with the two sides, which either makes it better or makes the problem worse
War/peace, education/illiteracy etc....

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yes and no..there are always variables to the math. that's why you can't take the most chosen Lottery numbers and win..do all the balls slide out the same each time? are they weighed? are all the fans within blower system working order. different factors produce different outcomes.

i did an experiment years ago about numbers that are most chosen. not only did i not get many, most times i only got one or none, on a pick-6 lottery.

schuylaar said:

so the carton of smokes, scratch-offs and case of 'Dew' makes you happy..great!..others have different goals.

i don't smoke tobacco, play lottery (what a waste) or drink sugary sodas whose toxidants would wreack havoc with aging process..tobacco and sugar are the two things that will age you most quickly.

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Ya smoking fuck me.... I’m trying . I think I need to be put under for a week or two. Wake up and I’d probably light one up in a second . Now on to the living wage thing. The Liberals here implemented a study with I believe 5000 participants a year ago. Every single person was given $17,000 a year and $24,000 per couple with a 50% max on extra income before clawback. The program was cancelled last week by the conservative GOP before any meaningful conclusions could be formed re success or failure. I’m still trying to decide if I’m happy or sad lol. I honestly think it was a good program if it broke the cycle of revolving poverty, where as it provided a somewhat stable base for people, re housing and food. I don’t think the living wage should not have incentives to actually contribute to the economy re getting to the point of working, $17000 would be barely living IMO.

ANC said:

If it is made by Chinese slave labor... They are picking up the tab for you.

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Thanks .

Inflation and fiat money are gnawing on the leg of this thread, yet nobody notices their leg is bleeding.

ANC said:

So what is your solution to growth in an environment of finite resources?

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First, a frank acknowledge of the problems; Robert Reich on why America's middle class is being squeezed. He even does a good job of connecting this trend to the rise of demagogues like the Chump and nationalist political movements;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/29/us-economy-workers-paycheck-robert-reich

Of course, @Fogdog will complain about the Guardian or Dr Reich as not meeting his lofty standards for journalistic integrity. That's part of the problem, too; ideologues of his ilk will attack anything that doesn't support their center right neoliberal narrative.

It's time to find solutions that work, rather than just those that fit one's favorite narrative.

Moving forward, a secure middle class will have fewer children which leads directly to a more sustainable future.

ttystikk said:

First, a frank acknowledge of the problems; Robert Reich on why America's middle class is being squeezed. He even does a good job of connecting this trend to the rise of demagogues like the Chump and nationalist political movements;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/29/us-economy-workers-paycheck-robert-reich

Of course, @Fogdog will complain about the Guardian or Dr Reich as not meeting his lofty standards for journalistic integrity. That's part of the problem, too; ideologues of his ilk will attack anything that doesn't support their center right neoliberal narrative.

It's time to find solutions that work, rather than just those that fit one's favorite narrative.

Moving forward, a secure middle class will have fewer children which leads directly to a more sustainable future.

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ttystikk said:

Moving forward, a secure middle class will have fewer children which leads directly to a more sustainable future.

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I'm not so sure of that, if anything the middle-class IS the problem. Not in terms of them doing anything wrong, but in terms of what others aspire to. Most poor people don't aspire to have billionaire status... but they could imagine having more than one car etc...

The guardian is a good news source as is Reich a good theoretical source for economic advice.

Quite a lot can be done to achieve a baseline independent living standard without pushing a higher minimum wage, such as universal healthcare and addressing the cost of housing. .How to set the minimum wage is another question. Scandinavians have a minimum wage but it's set by unions and industry in negotiation.

I don't understand how Progressives(TM) opting to not vote will do anything to achieve an independent lifestyle for everybody. Republicans in control of govt. is the first stiff obstacle to be removed. Seems counterproductive.

schuylaar said:

the Nazi's didn't think clothing was important either. They liberated those on the trains of all their worldly goods by taking their suitcases and put yet on another train that wasn't going to the same place.

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WTF how did you get from clothes don’t matter to that???

schuylaar said:

the Nazi's didn't think clothing was important either. They liberated those on the trains of all their worldly goods by taking their suitcases and put yet on another train that wasn't going to the same place.

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Nobody is stealing your shoe collection or putting you on a train any time soon, geez.

You are accustomed to a lifestyle, its that simple. You feel anything at or below your line is simply not good enough and you want more. Shoe collections, outfits that get worn 3 times, eating out, sugar drinks, frozen meals, vacations to exotic money sucks, etc. You are diming yourselves into poverty by straight up living at and and above your means. Why?

Ripped Farmer said:

Nobody is stealing your shoe collection or putting you on a train any time soon, geez.

You are accustomed to a lifestyle, its that simple. You feel anything at or below your line is simply not good enough and you want more. Shoe collections, outfits that get worn 3 times, eating out, sugar drinks, frozen meals, vacations to exotic money sucks, etc. You are diming yourselves into poverty by straight up living at and and above your means. Why?

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I bet these stupid poors even put condiments on their food!

UncleBuck said:

And why do poors own microwaves? You don’t have one do why should they?

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They can have one, but microwaved meals from a box is very likely part of the reason they are poor. Not all, but many poor people have poor ways and they put themselves into those positions.

Ripped Farmer said:

They can have one, but microwaved meals from a box is very likely part of the reason they are poor. Not all, but many poor people have poor ways and they put themselves into those positions.

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Why aren’t they grinding their own sorghum and millet? Stupid poors!

UncleBuck said:

I bet these stupid poors even put condiments on their food!

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Why wouldn't they? Do you think they dont deserve to?

BUt if they just dropped 11.50 for the dog and coke and smile, its probably a part if not the core of the problem.