How many Neoliberals in the Democratic Party before the Democratic Party is a Neoliberal party?

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are both 3rd wave, neoliberal Democrats, as is Hillary Clinton
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Clinton? Soooo yesterday and not a leader in the party any more.

Pelosi and Schumer are most definitely not laissez faire liberals. If you think that isn't so, please show me how their policies are meant to cut regulations, cut taxes, cut goverment oversight and how they rely on the free market.

I know you don't like them but they aren't neoliberal unless you are diverging from that description found on Wikipedia.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
If you are talking about laissez-faire economic liberalism, there are no true neoliberals in the Democratic party leadership.

More than 2/3 of all US Congressmen have strong progressive voting record. The rest have a good record on progressive issues. Given that only 12 of your kind of Progressive(TM) is running, they aren't a "threat" in any way. Given that most if not all Democrats in Congress agree with polcies if not tactics of your Progressives(TM) they will be welcomed into the Democratic Caucus if they win.
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Right. They're just bought and paid for, so they'll reliably vote for loosening banking regulations, weakening weirder protections and passing ever more insane war materiel appropriations.

But according to you and your sycophants that's not neoliberal!

And you wonder why I've given up arguing with you and just treat you like I treat right wingers.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Another center-left movement from modern American liberalism that used the term "neoliberalism" to describe its ideology formed in the United States in the 1970s. According to David Brooks, prominent neoliberal politicians included Al Gore and Bill Clinton of the Democratic Party of the United States.[31] The neoliberals coalesced around two magazines, The New Republic and the Washington Monthly.[32] The "godfather" of this version of neoliberalism was the journalist Charles Peters,[33] who in 1983 published "A Neoliberal's Manifesto".

During the 1990s, the Clinton administration also embraced neoliberalism[82] by supporting the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), continuing the deregulation of the financial sector through passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act and the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act and implementing cuts to the welfare state through passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.
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Smogdog's new tactic is attempting to dictate the definitions of political terms.

And then he complains about other people making things up!
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Brilliant argument.

Soooooo the fact that Democrats have lost over 1000 seats since Obama's was inaugurated is just an anomaly?

You need to have your math examined, and correct your head.
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thank you for seeing the brilliance in my brevity

say, aren't you the guy who referred to hillary clinton as "shillary" and a murdering dictator as "mr putin" while you blame the guy who canvassed neighborhoods for trump's illegitimate win?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Right. They're just bought and paid for, so they'll reliably vote for loosening banking regulations, weakening weirder protections and passing ever more insane war materiel appropriations.

But according to you and your sycophants that's not neoliberal!

And you wonder why I've given up arguing with you and just treat you like I treat right wingers.
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^^I think you just made a trifecta of logical fallacies.:P

Appealing to emotion and abusing facts is very propaganda. You learned well from Kyle and Jimmy. It doesn't work on nonbelievers though. I rate facts well over appeals to emotion when discussing a political issue.

Speaking of facts:

Did you know that Pelosi has the same voting record on voting to support progressive issues as Sanders?

Pelosi: 96.61%
Sanders: 96.11%

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?x=0&y=0&house=senate&party=&sort=name&order=down

This is why I call the Schuyttypad triad -- "Progressives(TM)". You revile progressives in Congress and so I use Progressives(TM) to denote a tribe rather than political ideology. You guys are all over the map when it comes to political ideology. The Progressive(TM) tribe is very right wing in some of your positions.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Clinton? Soooo yesterday and not a leader in the party any more.

Pelosi and Schumer are most definitely not laissez faire liberals. If you think that isn't so, please show me how their policies are meant to cut regulations, cut taxes, cut goverment oversight and how they rely on the free market.

I know you don't like them but they aren't neoliberal unless you are diverging from that description found on Wikipedia.
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LMFAO!

Name a Democrat to Bill Clinton's left anywhere in the Federal government who isn't a Progressive, you revisionist clown.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
thank you for seeing the brilliance in my brevity

say, aren't you the guy who referred to hillary clinton as "shillary" and a murdering dictator as "mr putin" while you blame the guy who canvassed neighborhoods for trump's illegitimate win?
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Say, aren't you the guy who tries desperately to distract from his obvious dullness?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
^^I think you just made a trifecta of logical fallacies.:P

Appealing to emotion and abusing facts is very propaganda. You learned well from Kyle and Jimmy. It doesn't work on nonbelievers though. I rate facts well over appeals to emotion when discussing a political issue.

Speaking of facts:

Did you know that Pelosi has the same voting record on voting to support progressive issues as Sanders?

Pelosi: 96.61%
Sanders: 96.11%

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?x=0&y=0&house=senate&party=&sort=name&order=down

This is why I call the Schuyttypad triad -- "Progressives(TM)". You revile progressives in Congress and so I use Progressives(TM) to denote a tribe rather than political ideology. You guys are all over the map when it comes to political ideology. The Progressive(TM) tribe is very right wing in some of your positions.
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An astonishing display of wrongheadedness- even for you- when you actually use Nancy Pelosi, the greatest money winner in the entire party, as an example of someone who ISN'T neoliberal!

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Keep wondering why no one who isn't completely in the bag for the establishment has long since ceased to take you for anything but comic relief!
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
NAFTA, moron.
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That's one issue, moron. By your standard, Sanders is a raving Socialist or raving conservative depending on the issue one picks. He favors free college tuition that makes him a socialist. He favors the public sale and unlimited access to high power killing machines like AK47 rifles. That makes him a conservative. derp.

Other neoliberal policies, most in fact are opposed by Democrats.

such as:
lowering taxes to stimulate the economy
Unregulated markets
small government


Pelosi is no more neoliberal than Bernie. derp
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
An astonishing display of wrongheadedness- even for you- when you actually use Nancy Pelosi, the greatest money winner in the entire party, as an example of someone who ISN'T neoliberal!

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Keep wondering why no one who isn't completely in the bag for the establishment has long since ceased to take you for anything but comic relief!
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More appeals to emotion and no discussion of policy differences.

Not surprised because there is practically no difference between what you call for and what Pelosi calls for.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
That's one issue, moron. By your standard, Sanders is a raving Socialist or raving conservative depending on the issue one picks. He favors free college tuition that makes him a socialist. He favors the public sale and unlimited access to high power killing machines like AK47 rifles. That makes him a conservative. derp.

Other neoliberal policies, most in fact are opposed by Democrats.

such as:
lowering taxes to stimulate the economy
Unregulated markets
small government


Pelosi is no more neoliberal than Bernie. derp
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Lol

You're overdue for an Alzheimer's evaluation.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
More appeals to emotion and no discussion of policy differences.

Not surprised because there is practically no difference between what you call for and what Pelosi calls for.
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Lol

Double down on stupid.

I'd ask if you work at it, but all those column inches speak for themselves!
 
INF Flux

INF Flux

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Well sure; they're just doing the bidding of their donors.

I wonder how much @UncleBuck @Fogdog @Unclebaldrick @Justin-case et al are being paid?

If they aren't pulling a paycheck, they're just useful idiots of the donor class.
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If they are pulling a paycheck, they're incompetent. I still wonder if some of them are right wingers pretending to be democrats. The view they present of the party is so skewed from reality, even for pro est dems, it's a bit much.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
LMFAO!

Name a Democrat to Bill Clinton's left anywhere in the Federal government who isn't a Progressive, you revisionist clown.
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LMFAO indeed.

About 2/3 of all Democrats in Congress almost always vote in favor of progressive causes. Check for yourself:

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?x=0&y=0&house=house&party=D&sort=name&order=down

These are simple facts recorded in the Congressional Record. No need to appeal to emotions when one has facts to help distinguish bullshit from reality.

Among the top voters who support progressive causes are Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
If they are pulling a paycheck, they're incompetent. I still wonder if some of them are right wingers pretending to be democrats. The view they present of the party is so skewed from reality, even for pro est dems, it's a bit much.
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There is a lot of propaganda being put out by right wing lobby groups that say exactly what you just said.

Most Democratic congressmen support progressive issues more than 80% of the time. 2/3 of all Democrats meet this criteria. Pelosi and Sanders are among the best. The worst Democrat in Congress is leagues better than the best Republican is on progressive issues.

These are facts that cannot be denied. What you espouse is belief which is fine but don't expect people to deny facts to your unverifiable claims.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
If they are pulling a paycheck, they're incompetent. I still wonder if some of them are right wingers pretending to be democrats. The view they present of the party is so skewed from reality, even for pro est dems, it's a bit much.
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What's worse is they actually appear to believe their drivel.
 
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