INCOME TAXES ARE ILLEGAL: so don't pay.

People do challenge it. Some do win. Usually an agreement of silence is reached for the govt. capitulation to the protesting and very lawyered up citizen. They don't want that stuff to spread into the general population.

All I can say is if you ever get in IRS trouble, fight like heck to stay out of tax court.

The argument that the 16th amendment wasn't ratified properly is interesting, but avoids the real issue IMO. For arguments sake lets say it was ratified properly, just what did it legalize? Government extortion.

Think about what involuntary taxation really is, it's clearly extortion by definition. If you don't pay you will be harmed or jailed, your property will be seized, resist and you may be killed, all nice and legal like. Just because something is "legal" cannot cover up that it is immoral. It is immoral to extort. Remember slavery was once legal, that didn't make it right. Do we still have "soft slavery"? I think so.

Some people pay income taxes out of fear. Some pay out of misguided indoctrinated "patriotism". Most pay because they have no choice, it is taken from their paycheck. Your labor is taxed, part of it is "taken" without your consent, that's pretty damned close to involuntary servitude or slavery.

The bill of rights and constitution are generally good documents, but when they were used to legalize extortion they deviated from the concepts of freedom and free will. This country will (is) fall(ing) into totalitarianism and it will all be done "legally".

props!!!!!

Rob Roy said:

The argument that the 16th amendment wasn't ratified properly is interesting, but avoids the real issue IMO. For arguments sake lets say it was ratified properly, just what did it legalize? Government extortion.

Think about what involuntary taxation really is, it's clearly extortion by definition. If you don't pay you will be harmed or jailed, your property will be seized, resist and you may be killed, all nice and legal like. Just because something is "legal" cannot cover up that it is immoral. It is immoral to extort. Remember slavery was once legal, that didn't make it right. Do we still have "soft slavery"? I think so.

Some people pay income taxes out of fear. Some pay out of misguided indoctrinated "patriotism". Most pay because they have no choice, it is taken from their paycheck. Your labor is taxed, part of it is "taken" without your consent, that's pretty damned close to involuntary servitude or slavery.

The bill of rights and constitution are generally good documents, but when they were used to legalize extortion they deviated from the concepts of freedom and free will. This country will (is) fall(ing) into totalitarianism and it will all be done "legally".

Click to expand...

Well..... now you are getting to the crux of why the Civil war was fought. Guess who won? Pay ur taxes.....

rogmarick said:

I owe the irs alot becuase of this minor depression and I can't pay atm so they will just have to wait. I have been told that I could pay a hundred dollars a month and it would keep them off my back. Anyways I feel like I don't owe them shit since I fought for my country twice in Iraq

Click to expand...

Well, I have to agree here. I think paying taxes is only worth it if you have a legit gov't. But gov't and States have went out of control with their spending.

CA gov't tried to raise taxes twice, and the people stopped them. Now they have resorted to threatening the public. Arnold announced he would close prisons, lay off workers, and close state parks. Well, considering State Parks only account for .001% of the State's budget, I think it's clear the gov't's intentions. It's grasping on its control over the people... A State Legislator in CA has recently threatened to cause civil unrest if the State Gov't cuts go through.

If our tax dollars are what's fueling the fire in the gov't, then we should cut off the fuel by not paying taxes. Will you go to jail for tax evasion? That depends on how many participate. Glenn Beck's staff at Fox dug up some research that showed; If 1 million people did not pay their taxes, it would cost $10B/year to pay for their prison terms. So it would bankrupt them if they chased after you. But it must happen in large numbers. 1 million seems to be the magic number in American civil change.

The U.S. is a representative Republic-- Not a democracy. Only the voting demonstrates democracy. With that said, Democracy is an oppressive state. The minority is suppressed by the majority. Something to think about.

The IRS and I are good friends because we sends letters to each other almost every month....

Try not paying your taxes and you too could have a new penpal!

And the penalties are real fun too..

kubrickzghost said:

Well, I have to agree here. I think paying taxes is only worth it if you have a legit gov't. But gov't and States have went out of control with their spending.

CA gov't tried to raise taxes twice, and the people stopped them. Now they have resorted to threatening the public. Arnold announced he would close prisons, lay off workers, and close state parks. Well, considering State Parks only account for .001% of the State's budget, I think it's clear the gov't's intentions. It's grasping on its control over the people... A State Legislator in CA has recently threatened to cause civil unrest if the State Gov't cuts go through.

If our tax dollars are what's fueling the fire in the gov't, then we should cut off the fuel by not paying taxes. Will you go to jail for tax evasion? That depends on how many participate. Glenn Beck's staff at Fox dug up some research that showed; If 1 million people did not pay their taxes, it would cost $10B/year to pay for their prison terms. So it would bankrupt them if they chased after you. But it must happen in large numbers. 1 million seems to be the magic number in American civil change.

The U.S. is a representative Republic-- Not a democracy. Only the voting demonstrates democracy. With that said, Democracy is an oppressive state. The minority is suppressed by the majority. Something to think about.

Click to expand...

I saw that Program on Beck. He did a good job and I wish more people would start to speak out against the income tax and the IRS.

There is some talk about individual states beginning a movement to amend the Constitution and abolish the 16th Amendment. Yes, I know ... this is the job of Congress, but if the movement is started between enough states, it should get Congress's attention.

The LAST thing Congress wants is a tax revolt, especially if it involves over throwing the 16th Amendment, for that is where their power over the people is derived.

Just as a side note: When Glenn Beck gets ahold of an issue, he's like a junk-yard dog with a ham-bone. I found it interesting that he hasn't brought the income tax issue up other than that one time. I wonder if someone scared him off?
Vi

kubrickzghost said:

Well, I have to agree here. I think paying taxes is only worth it if you have a legit gov't. But gov't and States have went out of control with their spending.

CA gov't tried to raise taxes twice, and the people stopped them. Now they have resorted to threatening the public. Arnold announced he would close prisons, lay off workers, and close state parks. Well, considering State Parks only account for .001% of the State's budget, I think it's clear the gov't's intentions. It's grasping on its control over the people... A State Legislator in CA has recently threatened to cause civil unrest if the State Gov't cuts go through.

Click to expand...

There is no threatening, the bank accounts are dry. Every department is forced to make major cuts, EVERY DEPARTMENT. That means your losing people from everywhere.

The problem is that california voted for all of these expendatures and they don't want to pay for them.

Thats a problem caused by the people. Its like we went to the grlocery store and said, "I'd like the filet, salmon, this expensive ass wine, and here is my credit card." The credit card does not go thru and you try to tell the cahsier that you'll pay for it later. (Lack of lendable credit because of everextension) You tell the cashier i'll pay for it later, and shes like ??????? (this recent voting where we voted higher taxes down, this would have created money to pay for education, firefighters) So now you gotta start taking shit outta your basket (in this case departments are required to cut their budget by say 30% and that means job loss.

But don't get shit wrong, the people wanted all these nice social programs and now that the economy is bust and there is no credit to aquire the expensive programs. It our fault. Its so easy for us to sit back and blame gov't but I hate to tell you, the individual as mush to blame or more for voting in there bills that baloon spending. Its just alot easier to blame politicans than to blame us Americans ourselvs.....

ViRedd said:

I saw that Program on Beck. He did a good job and I wish more people would start to speak out against the income tax and the IRS.

There is some talk about individual states beginning a movement to amend the Constitution and abolish the 16th Amendment. Yes, I know ... this is the job of Congress, but if the movement is started between enough states, it should get Congress's attention.

The LAST think Congress wants is a tax revolt, especially if it involves over throwing the 16th Amendment, for that is where their power over the people is derived.

Vi

Click to expand...

Ok.. so you want to abolish and if I follow that logic then there goes a central government (which is critical to a vital economy..). Then the state governments take over??? Do you have any idea what a bad idea that is?


We need a central government. This government needs funds to pay for military, crisis mgt, infrastructure etc.. Someone needs to collect those funds. you can change to a flat tax, fair tax, whatever, someone needs to collect that money. Or do you just want to change to name from IRS to RSS (revenue strongarm service), or some such thing?

I guess I kinda don't understand the idea of getting rid federal tax. Or do you just mean shirking paying taxes yourself, or scrapping of the entire system? And in that case, then what?

GrowRebel said:

The IRS doesn't have the law ... but they have the guns ... those that were allow to submitted SC rulings as evidence were acquitted ... those that weren't allow to present that evidence when to jail ... for a non crime. Congress is mostly to blame ... If the monies were use for the good of all then I wouldn't have a problem ...but it's not. It just a system to take from the poor and give to the rich.
If there were enough of us to stand together we could fight ... but there isn't. And they make sure there isn't.

Click to expand...

Of course there isn't and there never will be thanks to the graduated income tax system pushed by the socialists. If a person is not allowed to gather the capital necessary to start their own business then they will forever be stuck watching as the government steals their livelihood and enslaves them against their will, because the corporations all go along with the fiction that is the income tax. One can no longer imagine why, seeings as how they got saved from their own failures.

TBT - you complain about the graduated income tax system (that favors the poor, hit the rich harder), then talk about the person trying to save for a business. If that person is poor this system taxes them less. How does that hinder them saving for them own company? It helps the individual get taxed less, thus saving more. a flat tax would be much worse for this.

If you want to talk about taxing corperations thats all good and fine, but realize that taxing corps creates inflation thru c0st pass al0ngs...


P.S. - my o key is breaking, l0l

olosto said:

TBT - you complain about the graduated income tax system (that favors the poor, hit the rich harder), then talk about the person trying to save for a business. If that person is poor this system taxes them less. How does that hinder them saving for them own company? It helps the individual get taxed less, thus saving more. a flat tax would be much worse for this.

If you want to talk about taxing corperations thats all good and fine, but realize that taxing corps creates inflation thru c0st pass al0ngs...


P.S. - my o key is breaking, l0l

Click to expand...

Depends on the person's situation.


But in the main the Graduated Tax System has been turned into a tool of oppression, if we had the same tax system that we had in 1913 today then only people making more than $1,000,000/year would be paying taxes, and the top tax rate would be 6%.

Hardly something for any one to take umbrage with.

The idea is to finance government, not finance all the "I want"s in the country.

There's also a large difference between a FlatTax and a FairTax, a FlatTax is still a percentage (and thus still a graduated income tax) that punishes success by increasing the cost of success.

The FairTAX on the other hand is more aimed towards punishing excess consumption and encouraging savings and investment. The income tax (whether it be flat tax or the system we have now) punishes thrift, savings, investment and hardwork while rewarding sloth, laziness, and avarice (esp. for power over others.)

The poor live paycheck to paycheck
and thus never have the money saved
to start a buisness.
Thats generalizing but not wholly untrue.

The Feds get lots of money every year.
Only 42% is from income taxes.
If we lost the income tax it would put us on the
budget we had under Bill Clinton.
Injecting nearly a trillion dollars into the economy.

I don't like taxing wages and labor by force.
To pay for things I have a real problem with,
War, abortion, drug laws the list goes on.
I feel I've been robbed to pay for my own
jail cell, to send people to their deaths,
to litter a foreign land with depleted uranium.

I payed for that and the government forced me to do it.
With trained goons who bust down doors for a living.
The 16th Ammendment should be repealed.

All these bail outs whos gonna pay for them?
we all will be forced at gunpoint if necisary to pay
to keep the banksters afloat.

The income tax was illegal before the 16th ammendment for a reason. IMO

Income taxes do not pay for social programs, buy anything for the government, or pay for ANY GOVERNMENT program at all. Nope all the tax money goes to pay the interest on the money we have borrowed from the federal reserve. The USA BORROWS all the money it needs to pay for everything by selling interest bearing treasuries and bills. The 16th Amendment WAS NOT properly ratified. In fact several states completely changed the wording of the amendment before they would sign it, alas it did no good and the American public was hoodwinked once again. While the income tax started out as a VERY MINOR tax, it soon blossomed into the 42% tax it is today.

Those living under the poverty level generally pay very little tax, in fact some even get money back for the Earned Income Credit while not paying any in. The middle class pays for about 30-40% of all taxes and the top 5% of money earners in the nation pay for 60-70% of taxes. Not very EQUAL ( Apportioned) is it?

When you go to work you are trading your labor for cash, there is no income. You had to trade something of value for something else, where is the profit? there is none.

There is actually no law anywhere that says you must pay the income tax, but try telling that to the IRS.

I know a friend who claims 9 on his W-4 ( The max you can claim) and has never done his taxes in 42 years, he has never been harassed or seen a collection agent or had any correspondence with the IRS. Probably helps that he never makes more than 20K a year though, stays under the radar I guess.

Personally if you want to pay less or no taxes you either have to know all the loop holes and make sure you can qualify, OR.......You cheat on your taxes and cheat like Timmy Geithner or Tom Daschle or any of Obama's tax cheatin cabinet. Then send in your forms at the VERY last minute (April 14 at 1158 pm), the chances of being audited are very small.

The US existed for 150 years just fine with no income tax, but as soon as the fed reserve (our central bank) was chartered that is when we got the 16th amendment.and we have been stolen from ever since.

And lets not forget about the oldest known and most deceptive tax of all........INFLATION!! Coming soon to a checkbook near you!! Food prices have climbed 10-15% in the last year alone, and that is mostly due to ethanol production taking corn out of the food market. Wait until Weimar style inflation...bread will cost $100 a loaf.


Buy Gold and Silver and commodidties! Plant a Garden, install alternate power producing devices. Everything you do should improve your life even if nothing bad happens. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

TheBrutalTruth said:

But in the main the Graduated Tax System has been turned into a tool of oppression, if we had the same tax system that we had in 1913 today then only people making more than $1,000,000/year would be paying taxes, and the top tax rate would be 6%.

Hardly something for any one to take umbrage with.

Click to expand...

And, that is exactly the ruse they used to gain popular support for the 16th Amendment. Hey, envy is a terrible disease.

Now just watch. You know that the next prize for the Obama fascists will be to take over the health care system and nationalize it. Here's the ruse they'll be using this time: "We will cut back on the income tax and apply it to only those who make a million dollars a year, or more. In addition, in order to afford national health care, we will be instituting a 25% VAT tax. All citizens, other than the super rich will be getting a "wash" because of no income tax."

Two years, three years ... five years after that, the income tax will be back in full force. This is exactly the way the people in Europe were duped into the VAT tax.

Vi

I dont think anyone enjoys paying taxes but when it comes down to it its something that needs to be done. Without it our country woudnt have any structure and we would have some serious problems. Even if were in a rocky time right now theres a lot of other places in the world that are a lot worse off. Im just glad that I dont live in europe because the taxes over there are way higher then they are here.
Even if some of the polititions arent paying what they should be their salery comes from our pockets and really, they decide what they make. If it is true that none of them pay and we now forced them too they would just raise their salerys and we would have the same end result. The amount of trouble that you would have to go through to not pay really isnt worth it when the law comes knocking on your door.

Step into my Closet said:

I dont think anyone enjoys paying taxes but when it comes down to it its something that needs to be done. Without it our country woudnt have any structure and we would have some serious problems. Even if were in a rocky time right now theres a lot of other places in the world that are a lot worse off. Im just glad that I dont live in europe because the taxes over there are way higher then they are here.
Even if some of the polititions arent paying what they should be their salery comes from our pockets and really, they decide what they make. If it is true that none of them pay and we now forced them too they would just raise their salerys and we would have the same end result. The amount of trouble that you would have to go through to not pay really isnt worth it when the law comes knocking on your door.

Click to expand...

Well then, will you pay mine too, since it has to be done, and I don't want to do it?

ViRedd said:

Just as a side note: When Glenn Beck gets ahold of an issue, he's like a junk-yard dog with a ham-bone. I found it interesting that he hasn't brought the income tax issue up other than that one time. I wonder if someone scared him off?
Vi

Click to expand...

Beck is SCUM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9c8_fZH7g&feature=response_watch

TreesOfLife said:

Beck is SCUM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9c8_fZH7g&feature=response_watch

Click to expand...

Sorry to be a bother, TOL ... but I'm using an old computer that doesn't have a sound card. So, with that in mind, would you be kind enough to recap the film in your own words, being very specific about what makes Glenn Beck "scum?"


Thanks ...

Vi