Killing Root Rot

Alright i just battled root rot but... or so i think. Had a hydro set up in 5 gal pails and and when the roots came out of the net pot they would die... i was thinking this may be exposed light. I was running a top feed drip but they may have been under watered. how often do you run the dripper for hydros, my humidity is quite low. not killer low... just low. thnaks stay high

Dr. VonDank said:

That is great to hear!!!-----Another grower friend that has battled Root Rot said that botanicare aqua-shield and an enzyme of choice will work wonders for the preventative and treatment of root rot...

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Aqua--Shield is simply compost extract. Saying it combats root rot is quite a stretch in the marketing of such a product. Using Aqua-Shield first of all guarantees the addition of nearly all or all strains of Pythium. It does introduce bacteria that competes with the Pythium for organic foods or by introducing enzymes that make the uptake of organics easier. However this is really only beneficial with orgainic nutrients and soil grows ofr after roots have started to die. By this time the areas in which the roots are dying are already anoxic and the Pythium proliferates regardless of the bacteria and enzymes added as they are aerobic organisms.

The same bacteria and enzymes are also airborne and will populate your resrvoir in a matter of days without being purposely added.

99% marketing and 1% benefit.

Temperature, particularly root temperature, is the most critical factor with pythium. If your res temp is over 75, you will eventually have trouble. If you run your air temps too high it will eventually cause root temperature to go up into the range in which pythium thrives. Cool down your res to 60-65, wash pots and the room with a 5 per cent solution of clorox. I also use hygorzyme which is an enzyme that removes the brown dead root debris, leaving your roots white white. I think it's good insurance. I haven't had a problem in years.

Dude, the roots do not care if they are kept at 60, 70, 80 or even 90 degrees as long as they get adequate oxygen, water and nutrients. Pythium is dependent on food to multiply, simply raising the temps do not increase the number of pythium cells. Sorry growing systems that are dependant on artifically high often unattainable DO levels from airstones and aeration lead to root die off that feeds Pythium. Warm water has less DO. Hygrozyme is simply humic acids and their associatted enzymes. If roots start dying due to low DO those "aids" will not contain Pythium in any way. They do not kill Pythium and really have almost NO effect on Pythium except to compete for food. In a chemically based system there should be very minimal levels of food other than that supplied by the oragnic matter supplied with the hygrzyme or from di ying roots. It is simply easiets to kill the pythium with clorine and use chlorine to stop its reappearance. As for stopping root death that requires that you grow with a good system not one requiring unnatturally high levels of DO. Hygrozyme is simply 99% marketing and 1% reality. It costs about 10 cents to make a quart.

There is a lot of bad information about Pythium that causes us to misunderstand what it is. Pythium is not like a virus that requires only a slight inoculation to infest a host. instead, it is a type of fungus that is considered an "opportunistic pathogen." What this means is that it is always present in the air and water and it only becomes a problem when conditions allow it to thrive and when plants are sick.

Like most microbes, temperature is critical and the data shows that Pythium reproduces significantly faster over 70 deg - that is why DWCs should be kept no warmer than 68 deg. Another thing that help Pythium thrive is the existence of decaying plant matter in the water - a rotting leaf is enough food for billions of fungi. I have not found the specific PH enjoyed by Pythium but most Fungi like higher PH to the best of my knowledge so keeping PH at the lower end of the spectrum might also help.

One of the biggest problems with even a mild case of Pythium is that it makes cloning difficult. The warm conditions and stagnant water encourage Pythium to grow faster than the roots. Using a more active cloning system that splashes water on roots might help. Cloning without additional heat might also help. Another method for taking clones from an infected mom is to simply scrape a stem and wrap it with wet medium and foil, cloning while still on the plant. I have not done this yet but I hear it works and it should greatly reduce the stress of the clone.

As far as all your clones being infected - it shouldn't really matter because as stated, a healthy growing plant in an O2 rich, clean medium should remain Pythium resistant. Remember, this is an opportunistic pathogen, not an aggressive one.

As far as competing microbes are concerned - I have not looked into them too much. There is a lot that goes on in the world of microbes. Some microbes actually eat others, some simply compete for food, some may give off things other microbes can't thrive in such as the wrong PH. For example, a woman's vagina contains acidopholys which creates an acidic condition creating an environment inhospitable for alkaline loving yeast. But sometimes the yeast gets the upper hand causing yeast infections. I will have to look closer at some of these competing microbes.

I don't know if soaking cuttings in a mild bleach solutions will kill systemic Pythium but that is a possibility as well. In the end, I would either clone on the plant, clone in a high O2 cloner at a low temp with a low PH such as 5.8 or so with maybe light bleach. If you do get a clone to take I would plant it in a well aerated soil and keep it as a mom.

It simply requires 2 ppm of residual chlorine for 20 minutes to kill all thr Pythium in water. And that is for the most resilient Pythium found in open bodies of e water. Typically all pythium as would be typically found in tap water would be readily killed by 1 ppm of chorine or less. It really does not matter what the temperature of the water is if you do not provide pythium with food such as dead decaying roots it will not multiply without an increased food supply. Yes warmer temps are preferred by pythium but it takes food for moultipication. Yes with poorly designed systems such as DWC, bubble ponic low pressure small tube constant spray aero that are dependent on reservoirs with high DO water the higher temps mean heavy root death due to the fact that water will hold less oxygen at higher temps. So those who grow with DWC, bubblepoonic, small tube constant spray aero and NTF with deep water will have increased problems with Pythium with higher temps, but it is not the higher temps that is causing the Pythium problem it is the low DO levels causing root death that is suppling food for Pythium multiplication. You would have the same problem with Pyth at lower temps if you had the same amount of dead roots caused by the low DO due to non function air pumps etc. If your roots are in good condition Pyth is not a problem regardless of the nutrient temp. Pythium does not attack healthy roots.

Many people who start seeds and clones in rock wool and leave them in the rock will later have root rot and stem rot problems as rock wool tends to become and stay water logged quite easily.

You do realize that there is a direct relationship between DO and water temp: the lower the water temp the higher the amount of dissolved oxygen, the higher the res temp the lower the amount of DO. Therefore lower res temps allow for higher amounts of DO. Pythium thrives at higer res temps specifically because DO is lower, it favors anaerobic conditions. I've had serious problems with Pythium in the past but after conscientiously controlling root and res temp as well as cleaning with 5 per cent chlorine, I've had zero problems.
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There are three main causes of root rot. 1) Anaerobic conditions 2) Warm temps 3) Decaying matter.

Pythium can come from numerous sources - like most microbes it is ubiquitous. Even a small amount of decaying matter like a leaf can produce millions of Pythium fungi. Warm water has a two fold effect. A) Lower dissolved O2. B) Promotes reproduction. The latter is actually much more significant. Below 70 deg, Pythium has difficulty reproducing - this is why reservoirs should be kept cooler.

Aeration of a reservoir is easy, but this alone can not keep Pythium low. One must also keep all debris out of the solution and keep it cool. Of all of these temperature is the most crucial. If you want to see how much temperature affects the multiplication of microbes, simply take a piece of meat out of your fridge and put it in your clone dome with some heat underneath it for a few days.

Because of these difficulties, I have scrapped the DWC and went with ebb and flow. It is just too hard to keep all debris out of the DWC and keeping the temp at a steady 68 deg is a challenge. With the ebb and flow, I'm fairly sure Pythium will be unable to attack the roots zone.

Oh, and frequent res changes are another overlooked solution.

inval said:

You do realize that there is a direct relationship between DO and water temp: the lower the water temp the higher the amount of dissolved oxygen, the higher the res temp the lower the amount of DO. Therefore lower res temps allow for higher amounts of DO. Pythium thrives at higer res temps specifically because DO is lower, it favors anaerobic conditions. I've had serious problems with Pythium in the past but after conscientiously controlling root and res temp as well as cleaning with 5 per cent chlorine, I've had zero problems.
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I have no idea what your getting uppity about dude. I think about everyone realises that the normal Water saturation levels of O2 is higher in cold water that in warm water. Even those who know little else have heard that repeated by even the forum dumb asses. Few realise how small the difference is though. At a temp of 65 the DO is 9.53 ppt, at 77 it is 7.96 ppt and at 86 it is 7.28 ppt. So raising the temp 21 degrees lowers the dismal 9.53 ppt down about 23% to a similarly dismal 7.28 ppt. Not really enough to be so uppity about. I guess when you dealing with almost none you fight for each scrap. Air contains almost 22 times as much O2 as the water does at 65 degrees no shortages there. Kinda makes you wonder what your up to with some of the systems being used that are so dependant on water DO for any success.

Air contains 209 ppt of O2. So as long as there is some DO in the reservoir water so as to keep the system aerobic a quality Hydro or aero sytems could care less about increaesed DO or lower temps etc. Blow air into that water and up your shirts as much as you want inval and Rick but water is just not a good growing medium.

Low EC water also holds more O2 then high EC water but I don't here either of you telling everyone to lower their EC. Why not dudes it makes just as much since as saying everyone should always use airstones and such and always maintain a high reservoir DO and low reservoir temps. High DO low temp reservoirs are not an asset to anyone except those with systems where the roots receive their O2 from water. That is not the case with a good hydro or aero system where 99% of their roots O2 is from the air surrounding the roots. For those systems high reservoir DO is a debit as it means a greater chance of increased levels of bacteria and many pathogens. Pythium thrives when it has abundant food. Most pythium can thrive at any temps above 50 degrees.


A bit of research will show that most Pythium are aerobic (they like 0xygen) and are tolerant of anerobic conditions. Do a little more research and you will also find that with a good aero system where the roots are not laying in low DO water and are sprayed with an atomized mist the roots actually uptake nutrients better when the nutrient water is warm as in mid 80's or the plant temp if warmer.

Dr. VonDank said:

That is great to hear!!!-----Another grower friend that has battled Root Rot said that botanicare aqua-shield and an enzyme of choice will work wonders for the preventative and treatment of root rot...

Click to expand...

Here are my new roots!

fatman7574 said:

Aqua--Shield is simply compost extract. Saying it combats root rot is quite a stretch in the marketing of such a product. Using Aqua-Shield first of all guarantees the addition of nearly all or all strains of Pythium. It does introduce bacteria that competes with the Pythium for organic foods or by introducing enzymes that make the uptake of organics easier. However this is really only beneficial with orgainic nutrients and soil grows ofr after roots have started to die. By this time the areas in which the roots are dying are already anoxic and the Pythium proliferates regardless of the bacteria and enzymes added as they are aerobic organisms.

The same bacteria and enzymes are also airborne and will populate your resrvoir in a matter of days without being purposely added.

99% marketing and 1% benefit.

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The enzymes break down the dead roots and anaerobic organic matter that the pythium feeds on. Its really simple---no food equals massive reduction in population and eventual death. I agree with you that enzymes will not do the trick alone but in combo with aqua shield---The liquid compost base is the carrier for the added Bactious Subtilis. B Subtilis takes care of many root rot pathogens and does so easily in hydro or soil. I'm not knocking the chlorine in any way and it sounds like you've done some research and testing but I've said it a thousand times in posts over and over again--There is more that way one to get jobs done and I feel that having a couple of effective options and a choice is the way to go.I'm sure in the mass agricultural industry as you said chlorine is a standard for preventative and treatment of their water but would probably be very accurate and safe to say its due to its cost effectiveness over anything else.

is pyth present in RO water? i use an osmosis pump should i still treat my water with h202 and bleach prior to using? i have a spare tank i store ro water in and have been treating it with h202 before use should i also treat it with bleach? very good info guys i learned a lot reading this thread. thank you

bushmang said:

is pyth present in RO water? i use an osmosis pump should i still treat my water with h202 and bleach prior to using? i have a spare tank i store ro water in and have been treating it with h202 before use should i also treat it with bleach? very good info guys i learned a lot reading this thread. thank you

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You should go back and read through the thread. This has already been discussed.

Attempting to create an aseptic condition devoid of Pythium is not a way to prevent it. Pythium will always be present.

The number one way to prevent Pythium from over taking your system is to keep your reservoir temps below 70. Temps over 70 cause an exponential rise in the number of Pythium fungi. While small amounts of Pythium will always be present and are of no consequence, large numbers will become root rot.
Also, be careful to keep debris out of your res because that is huge.

But, root rot shouldn't be a problem if you are not in a DWC. In something like an ebb and flow, the conditions surrounding the roots should be too aerobic for the Pythium to thrive.

Pythium is present in all soils unless recently sterilized, all open bodies of water and most shallow water wells. Their are a few types of Pythium that can be airborne butt these are not strains that typically effect pot growers. If your water came from a treatment plants that use water from open bodies of water such as rivers, reservoirs or lakesn then yes you like have large amounts of Ptyhium in your water. Anyone sayng Pythium will alwys be present likely also does not brush their teeth, take vitamins or practice other common methods of preventative medicine. Chlorine is cost effective, yes, but its reason of use is beacuse it is simple to use, it is economical and most importantly because it works.

The enzymes convert food into a form better utilized by plants, aerobic bacteria (Nitrosomonas) convert ammonia from organic wastes into mitrite then other aerobicbacteria (Nitrobacters) convert the nitrite to nitrate which is the most readily usable nitrogen form for a plants roots to utilize. In and only in a area with a lack of oxygen does anerobic bactteria play any part. Aneraobic bacteria converts nitrates to Nitrogen gas and CO2. In nature this happens in the deep scum layers in the bottom of lakes and in swamps in peat bogs. Septic tanks (key word septic) mainly sre used for the settling of solids but as they are not aerated some denitrfication from anerobic bacteria takes place.with Pythium for food and no more. It requires a mass of organic filth that air can not pass through readily as the aerobic bacteria use up the O2 at the masses surface. The enzymes compete with the Pythiumfor food just as does the aerobic bacteria. The enzymes colonize in the roots so only compete for nitrate and nitrite to any extent. Pythium will only com nsume those nitrogen sources as a last resort rather than starve, there principal source of food is ammonia so they really only compete with aerobic bacteria for ammonia. These bacteria are alos airborne and quickly set up shop in water reservoirs they need not be purchased.

Ptyhium always maintain small populations unless there are large amounts of food. Lessening their food lessens their population but in a system with roots there will always be food for them so they cannot be straved out.

Aqua shield and enzymes - same thing guys just different marketing.

As far as a system becoming to aerobic and controlling Pythium as a result. It will not happen. The amount of DO increasing will not slow Pythium as it is an aerobic organisms that is just tolerant of anerobic conditions. While O2 as a gas can kill pythium it seldon sits out in the open but lives in water or accumalated organic matter or actually colonizes the organic tissues.

Putting it all simply. Good chemically based nutrient growing systems that are well maintained usually only have Pythium populations in low numbers that therefore seldom cause problems. However any system where the roots are dependent upon high DO of ten have regular larhge amounts of root death and those that use use orgainic nutrients have very high levels of raw organic nutrients that support large Pythium popultaions. The oraginic ssytems and DO dependent systems are very much more likely to have root rot pythium events.

While I do not advocate chlorine use with organic nutrients (I do not advocate organic nutrients with hydroponics at all) I do wish it to be known that chlorine can eradicate all Pythium from a system and from water added to a system and that low residual doses ofpyhium can prevent Pythium from resetablishing in a system. It is very doubtful that as the vast majority of commercial green houses use chlorine to kill pythium and then maintain a zero level of pythium in their systems can all be wrong and that those who do not are right.

Like all microbes, nitrifying bacteria are temperature sensitive. Rapid changes in temperature do not produce rapid changes in growth rates. A slow adaptation period, with a lower than expected rate follows such changes. That is scientific fact. At higher temperatures the growth rate does not increase as others would suggest, and by 35° the growth rate begins to rapidly fall off toward zero. I do studies on aerobic and anerobic bacteria for a living folks.

The only thing a rise in temp will do is increase putrefication of organic tissues so as to make ammonia more quickly avialable to the aerobic bacteria and the pythium. However there has to be dead organic matter for that to happen. Good systems do not die back just due to warm resrvoir temsp, Sad DO dependent systems do.

Nitrifying bacteria are especially sensitive to low oxygen concentrations/Nitrifying bacteria and Pyhium are dependent of oxygen for life and for multiplication. Lower the DO and they decline in number, limit the amount of DO and they can not multiply. ie high DO reservoir water is a debit to good aero and hydro systems but a must have for poor DO dependent systems. The reservoir of a good system only needs enough DO to keep the system aerobic. Nitrifying bacteria popultaions and Pythium populations both go through lag pahses in theoir multiplication. Large increases in their populations typically take place over several weeks not days.

Chlorine treatment of water, Regular reservoir changes (every week to 10 days). And for those who like preventative treatment, maintain residual levels of Chlorine. More than anything the best method of avoiding root rot and Pytium problems, quit using deep water NTF, DWC, bubbleponics and small tube or small gutter aero systems where the roots are laying in water in the bottom of the channel or trough.

Fattman-
Great informative info but aqua shield does work very well in hydro applications as well as soil. Yes liquid compost and bulk marketed enzymes are similar but in aqua-shield the compost is only a carrier for the specific bactilis subtilis GB03 that is added to the liquid compost solution. Fattman- you seem like an intelligent person so do a quick read-up on B subtilis GB03 and the treatment of most forms of root-rot. I think you will find it interesting. I have ran DWC/hempy/most of the systems you have mentioned to stay away from in the past where at one point or another the roots were in some form of standing water and yes I have battled root-rot. But also have had great results as well in the same systems with aqua-shield(formerly root-shield) lol,,, Sounds like the chlorine works but so does Aqua-shield/enzyme combo. Its really a growers choice.

Dr. VonDank said:

Fattman-
Great informative info but aqua shield does work very well in hydro applications as well as soil. Yes liquid compost and bulk marketed enzymes are similar but in aqua-shield the compost is only a carrier for the specific bactilis subtilis n22 that is added to the compost. Fattman- you seem like an intelligent person so do a quick read-up on B subtious and the treatment of most forms of root-rot. I think you will find it interesting. I have ran DWC/hempy/most of the systems you have mentioned to stay away from in the past where at one point or another the roots were in some form of standing water and yes I have battled root-rot. But also have had great results as well lol,,, Sounds like the chlorine works but so does Aqua-shield/enzyme combo. Its really a growers choice.

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Find some linkable material other than what I have already read and other than what the marketers write and I would be happy to read it, but ir is still just another strain of bacteria that competes for food with the Pythium and other bacterias, at least if sold in the US as the FDA nor USDA has not approved for use in the US and predatory type enzymes or bacteriums. So at most all they are introducing is a higher number of an already present bacteria that will just drop in number to pre existing numbers within a few days as they compete with the existing be bactieria. Even if you start out with sterile medium and soils the air itself contains the typical nitrfying bacteria so any gain from adding a specific bacterium will be very, very short lived.

If your talking about aqua-shield by Botanicare it lists only composted chicken manure as the only. I find no mention of an added bacteria.

http://www.botanicaredevelopmentsite.com/supplements/aquashield

As far as bactilis subtilis it is of interst for only one erason and that is its ability to creat endospores and therefore lie dormant while suffering from little food. This only means in times when food is limited they are virtually absent from the game. So that means when it matters not what the population of the Pythium is as the plants are healthy the bactilis subtilis play no part. I see no benefit in that as far as pythium is concerned. B actilis subtilis n22does not eradicate Pyhthium or even keep it at low levels by providing competition when pythium is aready at low levels. When food is at high levels bactilis subtilis is at a low population level due to itss recent dormsncy and therefore has to start multiplying to make any difference. Just when you need something at a high level to compete with the pythium the bactilis subtilis n22 is at a lag stage trying to recupperate from dormancy. All grow th pattern descriptions show that they go through a lag stage greater than the other bacteirias then the non dormant bacteria etc. Hum. Where is the gain.

They do have the advantage as being better able to resist being killed by heat, dessication, radiation and chemicals. That does not make a difference as far as pythium control. It does make it easy for marketers and manafacturers though. They can easily kill off the other bacterias and spores etc with heat, dessication,radiation and or chemicals and only the "good" added bacteria will survive. That is a lot like the fact that they say the only thing that will likely survive a world wide nuclear holocaust will be cock roachs.

More marketing hype.

Fatman, no offense but you don't know the first thing about microbiology and you are wrong in a number of areas. This was my major in college.

First, you are cutting and pasting information about bacteria that have nothing to do with Pythium. Pythium isn't a bacteria or even related to bacteria, it is a fungus. Bacteria are prokaryotes, while fungi are eukaryotes - vastly different organisms. Enzymes are something different all together. An enzyme isn't an organism as is a bacteria or a fungus. They are actually proteins that catalyze any number of chemical processes. Breaking down organic substances is one example. Enzymes do not pray on other organisms nor do they reproduce to the best of my knowledge.

One of the largest factors that affects microbial reproduction is temperature. It may be true that rapid changes in temperature do not kill microbes but steady temperatures can radically promote or inhibit reproduction which happens exponentially when conditions are right. This is why we keep our food in refrigerators and why food left out spoils. The cold temps keep most bacteria from multiplying at a fast rate.

And bacteria have many mechanisms for competing with other organisms beyond simply consuming all the food. Some eat other organisms, some create conditions toxic for the other organisms, etc. I do not know if there are any of these types of beneficial microbes used to combat Pythium, but I agree that enzymes alone wouldn't do it.

Cutting and pasting info from the internet and trying to make sense of it all is great but some subjects are just too complex to try to figure out yourself. This is one of those subjects.

Bottom line - sterilization is great but if any Pythium gets into your system and it has optimal conditions, it is going to thrive. The best way to prevent this is a multi-pronged approach. Keep food out of the res, keep temps below where Pythium reproduces (over 70 deg F) and keep your solution well aerated.

Dude, You are quite wrong about what I do or don't know. I am writing or trying to write to a general audience not a "micro" biology mayor. (dI you finish a bachelors degree even in biology - I thought not- yet alone a Masters or Doctorates degree in Microbiology) chemsistry or even another environmental engineer. If I write at these levels I am simply told by the general forum viewer that they do not want to hear the scientific mumble jumble.

If you wish to kick the level up I have no problem with that. However I think you are all mouth and no education so the effort on my part would simply be wasted.

As for bacteria: they can be classified according to carbon and energy source: autotrophs, chemotrophs, heterotrophs, or phototrophs or classified by ability to use oxysgen: aerobic autortophs, aerobic heterotrophs, anerobic heterotrophs, and faculative heterotrophs.

As far as temperatures there are three general classifications: Psychropophilic, Mesophilic, and Thermophilic. Yes temperatures do make a difference, but only if other conditions are also met that support an increased ratio of multiplication. Given no other costaraints such as limited DO or limited food most micro organisms growth rates double for each 10C rise in tempearture. You as well as I know doublying the growth rate of bactieris is not saying much. Growth rate that is exponential is standard when the growth is not limited in any way so doubled really means very liitle. Enzymes really do not have anything to do with the matter at all but it keeps being brough up by others. Enzymes effect plants ability to uptake nutrients thare are no real effects on pythium or bacteria numbers. I tried to point that out several times, only to have it repeatedly brought back up.

I can give a general description of Fungi/yeast or protozoa if you wish. But as you calim to have "majored in Microbiology" (what ever that means) I will leave it alone as you seem to be saying either you you know it all, or at least know more than me.

There is nothing complex to this subject other than some people such as you put to much emphasis on temperatures.

Yes there are other countries that sell microrganisms for use in agriculture that they report directly attack Pythium. They have not been approved for sell in the USA.

Next time so as to make you feel more comfortable I will use the general term microorganisms instaed of the term bacteria. I really doubt though out of all the virwers, yet alone posters, you will find more than at most a handful who understand many difeerent biology terms. I doubt that many know the difference between a prokaryotic and a eukaryotic.

I am quite aware of what I am writing about. They did not give me my degrees for staying stoned or drunk or dropping out of school. I am not paid as a full tenured professor in Environmental Engineering because I know nothing. I just often have a hard time writing things in an understandable manner to those without science backgrounds. I could however h just be like you n and contribute nothing but opinion and baseless argument.

Ninety percent of what you have contributed to this thread just seems to indicate you are not sure whether you are a hydro person or a soil person or a supporter of DO demanding systems. You just seem to want to straddle the fence and contribute nothing but opinions and lame references to your alledged experiences. As far as cutting and pasting; I would rather be known for posting a sentence fragment from a known reputable schlolar/resarcher than presenting nothing emperical in nature or at least something that is accepted by the scientific community as is done by you. Besides child, look back and you will see I have referenced that article several times in this forum so that people like you who think they know something have a reference to refer to where anonymity does not come into play. I do mnpt post to grwowing forums from my own published papers, nor do I post photos of anything associatted with growing.

I have no respect for any hydroponic grower who add organics to their reservoirs whether they claim to have a biology back ground or not. So go back to your plebotamy job or lab tech jod doing UA's if you even have that high of level of science related job VonDank.

I am tired of your lame and insane unfounded idea that bactilis subtilis is a miracle product and that temperaures are so important as they are not in a chemical resrvoir and not even all that imporstant in a organically contaminated chemical nutrient reservoir.

I am done with this thread and your ludicrous opinions and arguments of half truths.

have a good day.

fatman7574 said:

Dude, You are quite wrong about what I do or don't know. I am writing or trying to write to a general audience not a "micro" biology mayor. (dI you finish a bachelors degree even in biology - I thought not- yet alone a Masters or Doctorates degree in Microbiology) chemsistry or even another environmental engineer. If I write at these levels I am simply told by the general forum viewer that they do not want to hear the scientific mumble jumble.

If you wish to kick the level up I have no problem with that. However I think you are all mouth and no education so the effort on my part would simply be wasted.

As for bacteria: they can be classified according to carbon and energy source: autotrophs, chemotrophs, heterotrophs, or phototrophs or classified by ability to use oxysgen: aerobic autortophs, aerobic heterotrophs, anerobic heterotrophs, and faculative heterotrophs.

As far as temperatures there are three general classifications: Psychropophilic, Mesophilic, and Thermophilic. Yes temperatures do make a difference, but only if other conditions are also met that support an increased ratio of multiplication. Given no other costaraints such as limited DO or limited food most micro organisms growth rates double for each 10C rise in tempearture. You as well as I know doublying the growth rate of bactieris is not saying much. Growth rate that is exponential is standard when the growth is not limited in any way so doubled really means very liitle. Enzymes really do not have anything to do with the matter at all but it keeps being brough up by others. Enzymes effect plants ability to uptake nutrients thare are no real effects on pythium or bacteria numbers. I tried to point that out several times, only to have it repeatedly brought back up.

I can give a general description of Fungi/yeast or protozoa if you wish. But as you calim to have "majored in Microbiology" (what ever that means) I will leave it alone as you seem to be saying either you you know it all, or at least know more than me.

There is nothing complex to this subject other than some people such as you put to much emphasis on temperatures.

Yes there are other countries that sell microrganisms for use in agriculture that they report directly attack Pythium. They have not been approved for sell in the USA.

Next time so as to make you feel more comfortable I will use the general term microorganisms instaed of the term bacteria. I really doubt though out of all the virwers, yet alone posters, you will find more than at most a handful who understand many difeerent biology terms. I doubt that many know the difference between a prokaryotic and a eukaryotic.

I am quite aware of what I am writing about. They did not give me my degrees for staying stoned or drunk or dropping out of school. I am not paid as a full tenured professor in Environmental Engineering because I know nothing. I just often have a hard time writing things in an understandable manner to those without science backgrounds. I could however h just be like you n and contribute nothing but opinion and baseless argument.

Ninety percent of what you have contributed to this thread just seems to indicate you are not sure whether you are a hydro person or a soil person or a supporter of DO demanding systems. You just seem to want to straddle the fence and contribute nothing but opinions and lame references to your alledged experiences. As far as cutting and pasting; I would rather be known for posting a sentence fragment from a known reputable schlolar/resarcher than presenting nothing emperical in nature or at least something that is accepted by the scientific community as is done by you. Besides child, look back and you will see I have referenced that article several times in this forum so that people like you who think they know something have a reference to refer to where anonymity does not come into play. I do mnpt post to grwowing forums from my own published papers, nor do I post photos of anything associatted with growing.

I have no respect for any hydroponic grower who add organics to their reservoirs whether they claim to have a biology back ground or not. So go back to your plebotamy job or lab tech jod doing UA's if you even have that high of level of science related job VonDank.

I am tired of your lame and insane unfounded idea that bactilis subtilis is a miracle product and that temperaures are so important as they are not in a chemical resrvoir and not even all that imporstant in a organically contaminated chemical nutrient reservoir.

I am done with this thread and your ludicrous opinions and arguments of half truths.

have a good day.

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WOW-----lol. Your insults don't change real world application's/testing/ and furthermore RESULTS. I try to be open minded and not to be an arrogant selfish asshole pushing my textbook learned ways or else. If you are a teacher your students more than likely get nothing but a headache from your textbook babblings. Good day to you sir and enjoy your tasteless sanitized swag...

Dr. VonDank said:

WOW-----lol. Your insults don't change real world application's/testing/ and furthermore RESULTS. I try to be open minded and not to be an arrogant selfish asshole pushing my textbook learned ways or else. If you are a teacher your students more than likely get nothing but a headache from your textbook babblings. Good day to you sir and enjoy your tasteless sanitized swag...

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I have an education and I teach and train under graduates, graduate students, scientists researchers doctoral cnaidates, you are simply a closet grower with egotistical far fetched dilusions of importance who thinks his growing opinions have some validity based upon a few pathetic grows. Aren't you important. Your merely just a testosterone driven boy with a small toy. Your proof that a mind can be a terrible waste.