Plasma is the Future of growing!

Saw that journal on that other site, it does look impressive, but like others said for the most of us price/performace is the reality. I mean some said its "light without heat" Sounds great, it would've been alot better if he threw in a temp/humid gauge in that tent to see it day to day. i know at the end, its quality and quantity for the majority.

If someone, a noteable seasoned grower such as "roseman" on here would be given one to test, and show us that journal, then i think this new model 'might' live up to its whoas and wows

BUT for now, as the "doc" said its all in testing, and thats all we can see.


Speaker Box D

kmo8762 said:

I'm interested, if it works

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You know what Technomage, I looked into what you said and found some killer new low volume filters from Phat filters and this might be real promissing.

I've always wanted a filter that works on the output stage of the fan instead of the intake and now they make the new OdorSoc. That to me looks real promising but I went to thier website and it looks like it's under construct or something.

Anyways it would be cool to have a real solid low volume airfilter. The ones from Japan are great but very expensive @ $300.

The point is, you only need to change the air twice per minute to exchange gasses when the temp is this low, then we're talking ballance inside the small space.

We have to actually heat the bottom of our chambers in order to keep the roots at the right temp 68 F. We use standard 4' wide by 2.5' deep, by 6' high cabinets and install heat cable under the bottom secured shelf and a digital root mat controller (sensor in the planter if not rotating) and it heats the whole cabinet just right. The air intake is filtered with pre-filter material to keep out the bugs and dust etc. and is mounted in the roof of the cabinet for more equalized temp input.

my work has some of the Luxim plasma bulbs in the parkinglot sreet lights. they are so small. like a plain tylenol yet they are wayyy brighter than anything ive seen. the whole ballast assembly fits in your hand and it pretty much doesnt get any hotter than your hand either. they are for sale commercially. and def. still in commercial prices. but consider it like LED's to HID prices for now. But these def. have ANYTHING beat for power consumption, heat, lumens. literally everything. only the sun can top it.

With all respect, I still don't see a heat problem with these lights though. In our test grow the temperature doesn't rise more than 2,5 - 3 degrees in a 80x80x160 cm tent with minimal ventilation. Why make it so complicated? Is that just because you use the UV filter and have like a closed hood? I see no other reason why you would need to cool a unit like this. As you said, the new system will have 30% more light with the same power, enabling it to light a bigger area. Imho that also means that the distance between the light and the crop needs to increase to prevent hotspots and create a more uniform lighting, even with a reflector. As the light itself generates very little heat and the driver dissipates most, that heat never reaches the plants as it is extracted right away, being so close to the extraction and so far away from the plants. It doesn't radiate heat on your plant and causes the room to hardly warm up at plant height.

Also, I don't see the need to get these lights any closer to the plants than they already are (50 cm) as with the increase in output (30%) and the increase in light by the reflector (lots of %) you already get a lot of light on your plants.

It's great to create a lab-like growing environment but I think most growers just want to put great genetics under a great lights, pamper them with great nutes to produce the best tasting buds and/or the highest yields. I just think you overcomplicate things too much in your effort to optimize, like the turners. Imho the simplest systems are the best systems, as they are "user proof".

Hey Wazzup,
The mission I'm on...is to make the best Micro-climate growth chamber ever and this light is the missing piece of the equasion. The restrictions of HID lighting made it very dificult to design an efficient easy to operate system...but now I have everything I need to set records. This is a quantum leap forward in small growth chamber lighting.
I have been studying the limits and restrictions of small lit environs for many years and have lots of data to go by. The reasons for the isolation of absolutely any heat in the grow area is obvious, plants love to be in 68-70 F (20-21 C) temps with the roots minimum 65 F (18 c) with atmospheric co2 levels. If you can stay around these temps throughout the whole process except seed/ clone you will overcome almost anything else you can throw at 'em and still do good. If you keep the temp in this zone and maximize every other requirement without any stress...yields can emulate an outdoor grow. That is my goal and now it is possible.

In a Micro-Climate growth chamber using continual atmospheric CO2 replenishment 10-12 degrees F (6 degree C) over average room temp is too high. I get it down to less than 3 degrees F temp difference without the need for massive air movement, keeping the transpiration at the perfect levels based off of years of research. That's why I air cooled/ remote placed the system. I'm using this light to create an all in one system that can be fit to any cabinet that has more than 20 Cubic ft volume so people can build their own growth chamber with my patented system. I have one design for isolated lighting (cools only the light) for CO2 enriched environments and I just finished designing an all-in-one system that includes a charcoal filter for using atmospheric CO2 and controlling smell. There will be no better system for under a $1000 and it will be able to fit into ANY growth chamber/ cabinet. WE WILL BE THE BEST!

It all sounds good to me. If it's as good as it's made out to be, my HPS's and MH's will probably end up in the trash or on Ebay for cheeep. However, I do have the patience to sit around and wait before investing big money in this shit- reason being, new technology is always top dollar, but after a few years go by it gets much cheaper. A perfect example of this would be the early digital LED watches ($700+ in 1969; $5 in 1976) and digital cameras, along w/ many other things. Also, w/ time new products/ technologies get the shake-down and battle trials and through this more efficiency and evolved development. I will def keep my eyes on this shit tho', looks like it could be the future of indoor growing.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, this whole system will take less than 280watts per hour to operate...No flags going off at the electric co.

The all-in-one will also provide the option for taking the highest quality UV-C filter lens out of the light path.

plasmargon said:

Hey Wazzup,
The mission I'm on...is to make the best Micro-climate growth chamber ever and this light is the missing piece of the equasion. The restrictions of HID lighting made it very dificult to design an efficient easy to operate system...but now I have everything I need to set records. This is a quantum leap forward in small growth chamber lighting.
I have been studying the limits and restrictions of small lit environs for many years and have lots of data to go by. The reasons for the isolation of absolutely any heat in the grow area is obvious, plants love to be in 68-70 F (20-21 C) temps with the roots minimum 65 F (18 c) with atmospheric co2 levels. If you can stay around these temps throughout the whole process except seed/ clone you will overcome almost anything else you can throw at 'em and still do good. If you keep the temp in this zone and maximize every other requirement without any stress...yields can emulate an outdoor grow. That is my goal and now it is possible.

In a Micro-Climate growth chamber using continual atmospheric CO2 replenishment 10-12 degrees F (6 degree C) over average room temp is too high. I get it down to less than 3 degrees F temp difference without the need for massive air movement, keeping the transpiration at the perfect levels based off of years of research. That's why I air cooled/ remote placed the system. I'm using this light to create an all in one system that can be fit to any cabinet that has more than 20 Cubic ft volume so people can build their own growth chamber with my patented system. I have one design for isolated lighting (cools only the light) for CO2 enriched environments and I just finished designing an all-in-one system that includes a charcoal filter for using atmospheric CO2 and controlling smell. There will be no better system for under a $1000 and it will be able to fit into ANY growth chamber/ cabinet. WE WILL BE THE BEST!

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I'm following this thread, and really liking the turnout so far on sanie's grow an can only imagine how much better it would do 6" from the light instead of his 50cm height. But when will info, tech specs, and relaese date be available. I am in the market for a new light and was ondering it any were going to be available soon, or it there were beta test spots open. I have developed my grow and am improving more and this light seems like it would coplete the room.

@Whazzup, your air handling system is also special in that it is used by three tents at the same time. You also told me about dialing down the airflow, which is great but I'll bet you still change the air at least 4 times per minute to keep the heat down to where you say it is and for the Charcoal filter to work properly.

I only need to change the air according to the perfect gas exchange/ transpiration needs.

As an engineer the main problem I see with your setup is, you let the heat from the Emitter and the Driver circulate in the tent BEFORE venting. Which causes the whole area temp to rise no matter how high the airflow. Too high of airflow causes the medium to dry out too fast and transpiration problems.

Oh yeah, not to mention changing the relative humidity of the environment by the addition of heat. It's easier to controll humidity if there is no added heat.

This system will be released late January. Unless you want to buy the 40-02 system now, if you can't wait. So many people want it NOW I'm actually tempted to give it to them.

Send me a pm with prices. I am looking for near furure. If it perfors like I expect it to, I will be buying a new one as well in January. But seeing if something will be available in the next month or so.

hehe well we do not change the air twice every minute. There is no odour problem at all with the fan running at a minimum of 30%. There is something called pressure drop in the system, which brings the ventilation down to a very low minimum.

I would be surprised if you can deliver a complete system for less than 1000 dollars: I guess you need the new cooler, the turners and some sort of fan and filter too.

I think it is clear that you are designing for a small specific group of growers in a micro environment. I know a lot of medicinal growers for whom a 400 watt grow is not enough by far to grow them enough medicine. But We'll see.

If you cant grow a personal stash with a 400w light, you need to rethink your setup. I'm kicking out 10oz's off of a 400w and if 5oz. a month isnt enough, I think you smoke too much. More like a commercial grower cant supply a city or a dispensary a neighborhood with a 400w light.

Integra21 said:

If you cant grow a personal stash with a 400w light, you need to rethink your setup. I'm kicking out 10oz's off of a 400w and if 5oz. a month isnt enough, I think you smoke too much. More like a commercial grower cant supply a city or a dispensary a neighborhood with a 400w light.

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I totally agree Integra. From what I've learned in designing micro-climates for so long and hearing feedback, they love the approach of the least amount of input with the greatest output. That's what I give em.
In the circles I roll in, we rate our systems by gram/watt/month equasion and we haven't done less than 1.2 in a long time...well on the first try with this light we matched that output plus a little. So now that better ideas are coming out of the brain works We have approached this from a completely fresh minset and have lots of room for error because of the design.
I think the average person who I've met wants to be able to get that kind of harvest consistantly without a lot of complexity. That's what we aim to give em. If they know how to follow directions without ADDING anything they will get close to the average yield.
Oh by the way, the all-in-one PLS (I'm sticking with Plasma Light Source not LEP) does not include the turners they're $150 each. But it does include; The Emitter /Driver /power supply and the Air-cooled housing with the very expensive uv-c/b shield and the fan for the air cooling runs the exhaust through a carbon filter. It's so perfectly simple.
anyone can grow with this design. It's THAT forgiving.

With all due respect, on the subject of need for patients...if they smoke more than 5ozs per month...that's probably why they're sick (again respectfully). I'm a total advocate for Vaporizers. That's what I gave all my friends for Christmas last year...they really liked that.

plasmargon said:

With all due respect, on the subject of need for patients...if they smoke more than 5ozs per month...that's probably why they're sick (again respectfully).

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First of all, imho that is not respectful. I am dealing with pain patients that are at the top (or actually a bit over the top) of the maximum dose of morphine they can have per day. The cannabis not only lowers the dosage a bit but makes them cope with everyday life. From a 400 watt grow in scrog, which lasts about 10-14 weeks (depending on the strain that works for them) they can harvest about a gram per watt (that's more than 14 oz). Of course not every beginning grower accomplishes that, so let's say they do get 10-12 oz. Because of the the law in the Netherlands they can't have more than 5 plants. Growing in The Netherlands still isn't legal, but up to 5 plants is regarded home use. So there are different circumstances everywhere. Another thing is that those people are usually the ones without a regular income because they can't work. So their set-up needs to be simple and efficient. For many it is even hard to do a grow anyway because of their condition. 3 grams per day is not a very heavy dose for them. Not saying this is a typical medicinal user but these are the cases I am dealing with here, it's why I breed the Anesthesia.

Cannabis activist and medicinal user Jacqueline Woerlee has Crohn disease. She has a recipe for 15 grams of cannabis per day. These are not isolated cases, I'm not talking about wannabe medicinal stoners, no disrespect at all to real medicinal users.

Now I don't know what yields you are talking about under the 180 watt plasma lights but surely not 14 oz for a starting grower. And though I am sure for many, and probably most of the medicinal smokers and light recreational users it will be enough there is a serious group of patients that will not be able to even buy the setup, let alone be able to harvest enough cannabis for their own use (and I did not even consider the many couples that are both medicinal smokers.

For those who can afford it and are really into growing, have enough money to invest andthe right location for it, I'm sure it will be a blessing.

About the climate control in the system used: The fan and filter are rightsized for the application, and I can assure you there are no odour leaks in this filter. Climate control is not a real issue with these temperatures. It's not hard to buy a fan and a filter that work well under these circumstances. The rooms are 2 x 1 cubic meter and 1 x 2 cubic meter. We expect the fan to extract about 300 cubic meters per hour. So all rooms are refreshed about 75 times per hour. That's 1.25 times per minute. Now I'm sure this could easily be right-sized for any small grow room with the proper filters and fans for very little money. The intake is passive from the room itself, which is 20 degrees Celsius. It's a very normal very low-tech set-up without any special lab equipment (other than the nice PLC controls which are just luxury).

There is no climate problem with plasma, that's one of the main benefits!

I took Ed Rosenthal to Sannie this afternoon. He was impressed with the light and the results. He is all for UVB and he agrees that the intense trichome development can be explained by that. He recommended increasing the temperature a bit to 26 degrees.

whazzup said:

I took Ed Rosenthal to Sannie this afternoon. He was impressed with the light and the results. He is all for UVB and he agrees that the intense trichome development can be explained by that. He recommended increasing the temperature a bit to 26 degrees.

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Whazzup, first of all I reitterated that I meant the comment repectfully. Because I know the hard luck cases. I meant the self medicating types who end up having more problems than they would if they used approprietly. You know who I meant.

Secondly; if Ed is with you all the way from California that would really be shitty of you, since you knew I was trying to hook up with him again.

So if I read you correctly, you are still trying to push my buttons, and that sucks since we have the same vendor. ...Edited by Plasmargon..., you are their guy right?

whazzup said:

I took Ed Rosenthal to Sannie this afternoon. He was impressed with the light and the results. He is all for UVB and he agrees that the intense trichome development can be explained by that. He recommended increasing the temperature a bit to 26 degrees.

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I thought he was in Amsterdam for another couple of weeks. Why did he come back early?

Hey Ed,

Tried to get in touch with you a couple of months ago through your blog spot, I lost touch with the people we knew together in the eighties. I wanted to ask if you want to try out these new Plasma lights. Someone from your area contacted me after I left a message but I never got a call back.

We met back in 86 through mutual friends in the Freedom Fighters after I met Jack Herer when he came to Fairbanks Alaska in 85 durring the repeal of the Raven act. If you don't remember me I was the rocker from AK. I worked as sound engineer for Ozzy and many others. Anyways we should catch up.

I think having you for a spokesman on this new product would be ideal (Hortilux was foolish for turning you down). Peace.