Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
And that's exactly the stance any ethical caregiver would take.
Powdery Mildew
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chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
And that's exactly the stance any ethical caregiver would take.
are you in Michigan? outdoor I couldnt grow mold free until I added a solar attic fan(200$!) to my outdoor cage with two batteries for timed night running. I was surprised it worked every year since...only a few plants of course in a dog kennel.
I stopped the outdoor growing for the smell, something I could not control. I would not use a chemical on my plant to control the smell in order to continue to grow outdoors even if the producer said it was safe and testing agreed, and would advise against any use that is prohibited or otherwise specifically warned against(manufacturer, fda/epa...) Its no more insult to anyone than advising against using artificial sweeteners (or even sweet antifreeze on hand) in their coffee. I hope that makes sense in context I dont mean to come off as condescending at all.
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
No. I'm in the Northeast. (as far east as you can go and the 1st in the U.S. to see the sunrise
are you in Michigan? outdoor I couldnt grow mold free until I added a solar attic fan(200$!) to my outdoor cage with two batteries for timed night running. I was surprised it worked every year since...only a few plants of course in a dog kennel.
I stopped the outdoor growing for the smell, something I could not control. I would not use a chemical on my plant to control the smell in order to continue to grow outdoors even if the producer said it was safe and testing agreed, and would advise against any use that is prohibited or otherwise specifically warned against(manufacturer, fda/epa...) Its no more insult to anyone than advising against using artificial sweeteners (or even sweet antifreeze on hand) in their coffee. I hope that makes sense in context I dont mean to come off as condescending at all.
)Right now I mainly grow inside but I did throw a few extra clones outside this yr at our camp. The breeze from the lake keeps everything happy and healthy. Whatever those plants produce will stay right at camp for rec use for friends and fam.
At our farm my father had built greenhouses but I haven't put them to use this yr because there's far too much work going on at that property to tend them properly.
I try to avoid these threads. I really do, lol
I worked in the med field for many yrs so its difficult to "turn off" that uncompromising rationality of "do no harm".
Caregivers providing for the truly ill have an ethical responsibility to not use banned or unsafe pesticides/fungicides. No one knows the long term consequences so I absolutely agree with your original statement. "its better to err on the side of caution"
There's quite a bit more flexibility with rec users or even those using it for RA, chronic anxiety, etc. than those with a compromised immune system from injury or disease.
I know for me, personally, I've smoked on and off for many yrs. Never been sick and God knows what I've inhaled/ingested over the yrs. Those risks are assumed with personal/rec use, so I'm in no way saying every "grower" needs to test their product or grow organic.
Its just a little unnerving to read about caregivers justifying...even advocating for the use of banned chemicals. KWIM
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Norby Grown
Well-Known Member
I'll use it any time i bring in new clones so I don't have to use it ever again on a full crop during veg. Do whatever you want but thinking your herb is better than anyones who used a spray, whether it be organic or synthetic, when nothing can be detected at harvest is not seated in reality. If you can't detect it, it can't hurt you. It's used in such a miniscule amount that it isn't even tested at that small amount on rats. Any testing showing problems was at a much higher exposure per day than would be used on a whole crop for a whole grow cycle. And you said yourself MJ creates more hydrogen cyanide when burned than even cigarettes. If that's the only reason to ban it then you haven't made any case at all. And as I said it's not even in the final product but if it was it would be allowable to levels higher than you'd ever find on MJ that was sprayed during veg. They spray this crap on grapes and other fruits when the fruits are actually formed. Not only during veg. AS I said it would be ok for use on MJ going into medibles and if vaping temp is under boiling temp of myclobutanil then vaping isn't an issue. And if you are that immunocompromised you should not be smoking anything at all! If you are immunocompromised you should be more worried about mold spores(which eagle 20 would work on) than you should be about any PPB residue on your MJ. And residue testing doesn't work but hplc or gas chromatography DOES work when testing for myclobutanil.
It's really a shame that you have to take this out of context and proportion to push your view when you haven't read up on anything. As I said you do whatever you want but trying to cast a bad light on me, when you said that's not what you were doing, has become the center of your argument at this point. I'm defensive because I'm defending the truth of what I have researched and tested. If you don't like it, I apologize but that's reality for ya.
It's really a shame that you have to take this out of context and proportion to push your view when you haven't read up on anything. As I said you do whatever you want but trying to cast a bad light on me, when you said that's not what you were doing, has become the center of your argument at this point. I'm defensive because I'm defending the truth of what I have researched and tested. If you don't like it, I apologize but that's reality for ya.
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Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
do you tell the people who buy your product that you use this chemical? if you tell them and they buy it anyway, then caveat emptor.
if you use this chemical and don't tell the people buying from you, i hope karma catches up to you before you hurt too many people
if you use this chemical and don't tell the people buying from you, i hope karma catches up to you before you hurt too many people
Norby Grown
Well-Known Member
You again? Get over yourself. You know that I told my patients what I was doing and that I did my research and tested my research and I only used it once or twice on a crop.
And if you are selling to the general public, esp. third party, tehn there should be product safety testing. People lie thru their teeth. The more down the line you get the better chance there is that someone is lying. That's not to say that first hand sales between friends should be mandatorily tested.
Norby Grown
Well-Known Member
If you are talking to me read the thread.
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
LOL
The fucking irony of you telling anyone "to get over themselves"
You've spent countless hrs defending this shit. Your poor fingers must be bloody little stumps by now.
Norby Grown
Well-Known Member
Umm, no, there is more problems with people with chronic anxiety and digestive issues with chemicals than there are with people with a compromised immune system. Bug poop and mold and fungus will do much more to a person with a compromised immune system. Don't you think?
Norby Grown
Well-Known Member
That's because you started this in the last thread I talked about this in and you bowed out and said you'd ignore me. I guess that was only for that thread and now anytime I talk about it you are going to jump in?
And it's been less than an hour I spent, I type fast.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
better? no, . I said who would choose to use a product treated with an unapproved fungicide over an equally awesome mold free one without eagle? wo would vote that the treated one is better weed? which one would you prefer, treated or untreated if thats all the consumerism info you have, like the bulk of users?
Norby Grown
Well-Known Member
Neither is better or worse because it has been treated or not in veg. I'd choose the one that smelled better because if it was treated in veg, there isn't any eagle 20 left on it. i know how it works so i'm not scared. Whether or not it was treated during veg doesn't have anything to do with the quality.
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
You mean this thread? https://www.rollitup.org/t/any-powdery-mildew-experts.938562/page-4
Where you were taken to school by every person involved in that thread?
Like I said in the last thread, I have no desire to debate this with you. Use that shit if you want, but don't come into a grow site and advocate for its safety and then cry and whine when fellow growers/caregivers call you out.
Chem has already provided links regarding its safety...which you apparently lack the acuity to comprehend in its entirety.
The debate ends there as far as I'm concerned.
Where you were taken to school by every person involved in that thread?
Like I said in the last thread, I have no desire to debate this with you. Use that shit if you want, but don't come into a grow site and advocate for its safety and then cry and whine when fellow growers/caregivers call you out.
Chem has already provided links regarding its safety...which you apparently lack the acuity to comprehend in its entirety.
The debate ends there as far as I'm concerned.
Norby Grown
Well-Known Member
He provided not one link regarding actual safety. Wow I can't believe you were a nurse, you should understand this stuff. There is NO link to the MSDS sheet or the studies done on dogs and rats.
That's only because you did no real research. you are only taking the word of a company who could get sued. they HAVE to say what they say to protect themselves. You are a hack with no real knowledge only compassion and that's dangerous. You'd rather give an immunocomprmised person stuff that could hurt them rather than use a synthetic chemical because you can't research and evaluate safety of mold spores compared to myclobutanil.
And no I wasn't schooled by anyone and showed in the end that the amount used per gallon was less than they fed a rat in a day, which that amount took over 5 weeks of that daily dose to produce any symptoms in a 1lb rat. You aren't using enough in one crop(which is all I said I used it on) to cause any problems. It's allowed in larger levels on your food than you'd get testing a week after spraying a plant at the rate used.
Don't use your ignorance as an excuse. If people use it without telling that's all on you guys for jumping down people's throat for using a product and testing the results to see if any is left behind. It'll only drive it's use underground. Just like any banned substance. I though at least this group could understand that. I guess you guys can't handle the truth.
Thanks for linking the best quotes where they had nothing and resorted to calling me things like cunt, etc. Is that what you think is being schooled, being called names by a bunch of children?
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
you missed the part of two identical trays of buds, one treated one not. both yours. with a simple msds sheet sitting right next to the treated bud, and the statement from its manufacturer DOW the one I posted.
You actually dont believe that -anyone would ever say that the Eagle 20 treated bud was better, healthier or otherwise preferred over an identical one never treated with Eagle 20 ?
Norby Grown
Well-Known Member
They are identical after 8 weeks of flowering. There is no difference between the 2. I would take either or.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
there is no reason but safety that inclines DOW to not go after tobacco market share, subsequently marijuana markets too. they have the c
you say there is no difference. epa, fda, even DOW say NO WAY, but you say its ok. who are you, what labs do you cite, where is this info on msds, why is it not used yet on tobacco. etc. I know the answers but without credibility your assumptions are at most anecdotal to the anyone listening.
.when consumers see the msds, know it cannot be used on tobacco legally, know it can not be used on marijuana legally even.... and know DOW said under no circumstances should it be used on mj, nor will they pursue any market for it,
no Norby, , patients would not choose the treated one unless they were blind and didnt see the msds or DOW s statement.
ounces per acre of treatment////um, ok, stoners be scaling that down for their interior rooms? this shit is not allowed indoors Norby, did you know that? really norby, if you need, by direction protective gear to apply minuscule amounts of this you should not be using it on any body's medicine including your own. dow instructs the applicator in uses of ounces to treat acres..(really, scaled down to a room)? this seems so obvious to me I think you're tugging my chain now defending its use. its ok, you used it, are going to use it over and over again in your rooms for new clones, whatever. I will never use it, I will always advise others to skip over the chems that are not allowed, or ones needing respirators and tyvek suits to apply. I believe this is sound advice.
but know the choice you've made, and know that growers all over produce mold free buds without the use of chemicals or stranger clones even. Mold in the room is a symptom, maybe of not knowing how to avoid others clones, or maybe room controls, either way, it can be remedied without chems it you chose to go that route.
I want you to use this defensive energy to discover how to grow successfully without the use of chemicals not allowed in your garden in the first place because I do care.
ok, now we're getting to the main point.
you say there is no difference. epa, fda, even DOW say NO WAY, but you say its ok. who are you, what labs do you cite, where is this info on msds, why is it not used yet on tobacco. etc. I know the answers but without credibility your assumptions are at most anecdotal to the anyone listening.
.when consumers see the msds, know it cannot be used on tobacco legally, know it can not be used on marijuana legally even.... and know DOW said under no circumstances should it be used on mj, nor will they pursue any market for it,
no Norby, , patients would not choose the treated one unless they were blind and didnt see the msds or DOW s statement.
ounces per acre of treatment////um, ok, stoners be scaling that down for their interior rooms? this shit is not allowed indoors Norby, did you know that? really norby, if you need, by direction protective gear to apply minuscule amounts of this you should not be using it on any body's medicine including your own. dow instructs the applicator in uses of ounces to treat acres..(really, scaled down to a room)? this seems so obvious to me I think you're tugging my chain now defending its use. its ok, you used it, are going to use it over and over again in your rooms for new clones, whatever. I will never use it, I will always advise others to skip over the chems that are not allowed, or ones needing respirators and tyvek suits to apply. I believe this is sound advice.
but know the choice you've made, and know that growers all over produce mold free buds without the use of chemicals or stranger clones even. Mold in the room is a symptom, maybe of not knowing how to avoid others clones, or maybe room controls, either way, it can be remedied without chems it you chose to go that route.
I want you to use this defensive energy to discover how to grow successfully without the use of chemicals not allowed in your garden in the first place because I do care.
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
I know which one I would choose lol. Would I be safer for it? I doubt it, but why risk it. That's all chem's saying I think, and also, if it's not needed then even better. The same with my 150 acres of certified organic fields, if the shit isn't needed them why bother. I do think that we've been somewhat led down the road that all chems are bad and yup some are very bad. I also believe that if used properly then nope not all bad, and in fact very helpful. But again why risk it if you don't have to. Yes I would choose the non-treated product because I've been told it's bad not that it is bad. Testing would be the only way to know if there is a residue. I know 100% the untreated is free of it, the treated stuff well I'm would wonder "is it"?
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
And that's really the jist of it. ^^
But like I said in the last thread, more and more people are growing their own meds or turning to CGs instead of Disps.
This section is bombarded daily with growers seeking solutions. It seems theres a thread about PM every day. And now there are 2 recent threads with pages and pages of "justifications" for E20s use.
Advocating for the use of a dangerous banned product is just flat out wrong, regardless of "personal reasoning" and no amount of warped justifications will change my thoughts on this.
Think of it this way. Most sectors of healthcare err on the side of caution because to but it bluntly, people are fucking stupid. A person can be smart but people as a whole are not!
Its absolutely safe for pregnant women to have a glass of wine but the standard advise given is to ingest none. Why? Again, because people are stupid. They don't hear/read "only on clones" or "only one glass". They just don't.
And I'm not trying to sound preachy but having worked triage and ems I could tell you stories that would curl your toes. I've been up close and personal with the kind of "stupid" I'm referring to.
But like I said in the last thread, more and more people are growing their own meds or turning to CGs instead of Disps.
This section is bombarded daily with growers seeking solutions. It seems theres a thread about PM every day. And now there are 2 recent threads with pages and pages of "justifications" for E20s use.
Advocating for the use of a dangerous banned product is just flat out wrong, regardless of "personal reasoning" and no amount of warped justifications will change my thoughts on this.
Think of it this way. Most sectors of healthcare err on the side of caution because to but it bluntly, people are fucking stupid. A person can be smart but people as a whole are not!
Its absolutely safe for pregnant women to have a glass of wine but the standard advise given is to ingest none. Why? Again, because people are stupid. They don't hear/read "only on clones" or "only one glass". They just don't.
And I'm not trying to sound preachy but having worked triage and ems I could tell you stories that would curl your toes. I've been up close and personal with the kind of "stupid" I'm referring to.
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a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
He keeps saying there's no diff when one crop was sprayed with Eagle 20 and the other wasn't. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, lol.
Regarding the rats eating stuff - thanks, when I start eating my fans and flowers I'll get back to you on that. Till then, no unknown and potentially harmful chemicals on a medicinal product intended for combustion.
Regarding the rats eating stuff - thanks, when I start eating my fans and flowers I'll get back to you on that. Till then, no unknown and potentially harmful chemicals on a medicinal product intended for combustion.