Religion, or lack of, open discussion/FRIENDLY debate.

The Code of Hammurabi was in place in Babylon close to 400 years before baby Moses was plucked out of the Nile. In other words, codified law existed long before the Ten Commandments were imagined. What is a monument to the Ten Commandments doing on the grounds of my state capitol?

To most scholars, the term Dark Ages may refer to several periods of societal upheaval or collapse, but most commonly references the span of time following the fall of the Roman Empire, roughly 500 A.D - 1000 A.D.

Johnnyorganic said:

The Code of Hammurabi was in place in Babylon close to 400 years before baby Moses was plucked out of the Nile. In other words, codified law existed long before the Ten Commandments were imagined. What is a monument to the Ten Commandments doing on the grounds of my state capitol?

To most scholars, the term Dark Ages may refer to several periods of societal upheaval or collapse, but most commonly references the span of time following the fall of the Roman Empire, roughly 500 A.D - 1000 A.D.

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Yes Johnny... you are true and correct about both of those facts

But being a light discussion, and this being a forum of stoners.. lol... I was not trying to be deadly accurate as much as I was simply sharing a though....

But yes.. you are correct

Jimmy Luffnan said:

Yes Johnny... you are true and correct about both of those facts

But being a light discussion, and this being a forum of stoners.. lol... I was not trying to be deadly accurate as much as I was simply sharing a though....

But yes.. you are correct

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My response refuted your statement that 10 Ten Commandments brought order out of chaos.

Jimmy Luffnan said:

First of all Id like to say that I am not ignorant enough to believe that there is not a higher power simply because I could never know enough to even have the audacity of saying yes or no.

But I conclude...

In the times before the '10 Commandments' and the bible was a time that is rarely written about called the 'Dark Ages'.....

This was a time when man lived without rule.... rape, murder, theft and many other terrible things existed and violence was the supreme authority from which all other derive....

It was a world of chaos for lack of a better word....

When the 10 Commandments were put upon the world, they were questioned... as who had the right to give such orders....

But due to mans still primitive mind... the only thing feared was the unknown....

So a faceless entity, that knew all, saw all, controlled all was created to hold authoritative for all that could not be explained....

Lightning? God.
Pretty scary stuff... and makes sense why god is from the heavens.... but it scared the shit out of men.... and there lack of understanding led them to believe in such an entity, and control of the masses was successful.

The world now had order.

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Order was established long before the 10C, as I pointed out.

The 10C were originally written for the Jews. The first three commandments demand allegiance to the Hebrew god. And that's fine as long as it stays in the synagogue.

The Ten Commandments have no business in the public square. Again I ask: Why is a monument to the 10 Commandments on the grounds of my state capitol?

Johnnyorganic said:

My response refuted your statement that 10 Ten Commandments brought order out of chaos.

Order was established long before the 10C, as I pointed out.

The 10C were originally written for the Jews. The first three commandments demand allegiance to the Hebrew god. And that's fine as long as it stays in the synagogue.

The Ten Commandments have no business in the public square. Again I ask: Why is a monument to the 10 Commandments on the grounds of my state capitol?

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Yes, I believe I understand what your saying and it is a good point.

It seems that your capitol has taken usage of the commandments to suit their purpose and disregarded those that don't fit.... which kind of defeats the purpose in my eyes... lol

May I ask to hear your theory please Johnny?

jfgordon1 said:

i have more belief that we came from aliens than a god created us. not even kidding...
the bible is a joke... of all the historians in jesus's day, not one wrote about him. the gospels were written centuries after jesus's supposed death. many religions mirror the bibles text to a T... it's sad people live every moment of their life to this book.

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sounds like me a year or two ago...

I grew up with out much religious influence and there for am pretty open minded to peoples ideas and beliefs. So growing up I was a lazy christian I suppose. Then after learning about space and how many galaxies and other life forms are out there sort of became atheist. After a few months I kind of lost that idea... Now im taking a world religion class and its very interesting. Teaches you about the major religions around the world like hinduism, buddhism, christianity, Islam. Anyway I juts learned about Hinduism and there caste system and system of beliefs and it was pretty remarkable/logical- to the spiritual person. Anyways I would encourage anyone to read the Bhagavad-Gita it was a very interesting short translation of there beliefs and way of thinking. I was very impressed with it. I may seek to follow it one day. Anyway i went to the world religion class the other day stoned and it all made sense.

CrackerJax said:

It's not about taking away anything....it's about facing a reality and letting the fairy tale go.

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but to so many that "fairy tale" is a hardcore truth. and it takes me back a couple posts, who does it really hurt? or offened? non believers? if they dont believe let them laugh cause its not being forced upon them,

and johnny true on the agnostics, absolutely, i've been there myself, i know how it feels, but as the def. of agnostic is knowing there is a higher source of life, but confused through all the chatter and differences of religions, but yet that source of higher life would still be labeled god no?

Who does it harm? have you read up on religion and geo=political conflicts. There is a parallel.

The problem with MOST religions is they are cult based. They NEED you to believe, not just themselves. Missionaries? Sure, to spread the WORD. Islam is in the same boat and it is no wonder that countries now are at odds today mostly because of religion.

No harm? How about GREAT harm...... it's no fairy tale...it's a nightmare based on made up stuff. What could be worse, or more foolish?

Jimmy Luffnan said:

Yes, I believe I understand what your saying and it is a good point.

It seems that your capitol has taken usage of the commandments to suit their purpose and disregarded those that don't fit.... which kind of defeats the purpose in my eyes... lol

May I ask to hear your theory please Johnny?

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Organized religion is a means of control.

CaptnJack said:

but to so many that "fairy tale" is a hardcore truth. and it takes me back a couple posts, who does it really hurt? or offened? non believers? if they dont believe let them laugh cause its not being forced upon them,

and johnny true on the agnostics, absolutely, i've been there myself, i know how it feels, but as the def. of agnostic is knowing there is a higher source of life, but confused through all the chatter and differences of religions, but yet that source of higher life would still be labeled god no?

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Agnostic as translated from the Greek is 'without knowledge.' Simply put, I do not know and I do not presume to know. I am unwilling to say yes or no on the question until presented with actual evidence.

I can say that what I have seen thus far is hokum. As far as I am concerned, religious texts are distilled from myths and legends. Fairy tales passed down and written by men.

It is likely there was a heretic who went by the name of Jesus of Nazareth and was executed by the Romans. It is extremely unlikely that he walked on water, raised the dead, turned water into wine, arose from the grave, and ascended into the clouds. The gospels were propaganda written almost a century after he was crucified.

Identifying myself as agnostic does not mean I believe in an as yet unnamed deity. Nor does it mean I rule one out altogether.

Lack of belief is just that. I do not know. On the subject of the existence of a creator I am truly without knowledge.

Johnnyorganic said:

Organized religion is a means of control.

Agnostic as translated from the Greek is 'without knowledge.' Simply put, I do not know and I do not presume to know. I am unwilling to say yes or no on the question until presented with actual evidence.

I can say that what I have seen thus far is hokum. As far as I am concerned, religious texts are distilled from myths and legends. Fairy tales passed down and written by men.

It is likely there was a heretic who went by the name of Jesus of Nazareth and was executed by the Romans. It is extremely unlikely that he walked on water, raised the dead, turned water into wine, arose from the grave, and ascended into the clouds. The gospels were propaganda written almost a century century after he was crucified.

Identifying myself as agnostic does not mean I believe in an as yet unnamed deity. Nor does it mean I rule one out altogether.

Lack of belief is just that. I do not know. On the subject of the existence of a creator I am truly without knowledge.

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Well said Johnny
+rep for you mate

well crackerjax, i have study religion actually, and its not most religions, in fact to my knowledge there is only one religion that is harmful if you refuse to believe, and that is a sect of muslims, noot even all, believe it or not there are two types of muslims, one is a very passive and keeps to themselves and thier family, then muslims extremists who are brainwashed into believing that killing the infidels will assure a place with allah, maybe in a place where there is no laws that could be inforced against religious persecution, if we were talkin taking particular deities out like Jesus, muhammad ect. i'd agree, but the term god, is no threat to anyone.

(ill find the documentary and share it, but its a doc on islamic extremist beliefs and the WWII nazis, its a trippy truth but the two are connected, more so than anyone thinks.)

Harmful if you refuse to believe....... listen to yourself.

Christianity is based on spreading the WORD...at all costs...just like Islam. Islam is just 400 years behind the Christian church in mediating its punishment to unbelievers and perceived violators. The Christian church is more reliant on bribery, extortion and subtlety than the Islam church, but the results are similar.

In case you haven't noticed the world stage is now set up between the meme of the Christians and the Muslims.... we could do away with BOTH and come out on top of this mess. both are guilty, both are to blame, both are 100% wrong.

CrackerJax said:

Harmful if you refuse to believe....... listen to yourself.

Christianity is based on spreading the WORD...at all costs...just like Islam. Islam is just 400 years behind the Christian church in mediating its punishment to unbelievers and perceived violators. The Christian church is more reliant on bribery, extortion and subtlety than the Islam church, but the results are similar.

In case you haven't noticed the world stage is now set up between the meme of the Christians and the Muslims.... we could do away with BOTH and come out on top of this mess. both are guilty, both are to blame, both are 100% wrong.

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wow, glad to see this has turned to generalizations, by your thought process, where i live i should be dead shot by a crack head drunk black dude. wait, thats a stereotype thats right. so the extortion, bribery was catholicism, in case you didnt know, by sayin that all christian denoms are like that is a quite inaccurate and idiotic thing to say, considering the churches ive gone to all my life haven't forced tithing by any means, tho they may have had fundraisers. CATHOLISISM is to be under microscope not christians, who told ppl if they didnt give them their wives and daughters they;d go to hell? oh catholics, who said they can assure a place in heaven and out of purgatory with donations? oh catholics...hmm seems to be a trend there. you have a tunnel vision on it seems to me. blame the entire body for few's mistake.

well hell lets think like you....lets kill all iranian and pakistani ppl men women and children, they are terrorist that will blindly kill. wait thats right its small percentage.

oh how bout germans, or somalians, or chinese, or japanese, or vietnamese.

or how bout americans since they are strong arming extortionists, who are too controlling and get involved in too many peoples business by nature, and force their political views onto other countries.

see the point is, every body of PEOPLE have sects of bad, and failed.
and missionaries DIE (murdered) in hopes of spreading word, and they a joyous while doing so, they dont take a crowd into oblivion in hopes for pussy in another dimension. christians dont wanna kill non believers instead, pray, and are open to answer questions, those that FORCE which are SOME are wrong for doing so. really honestly know what you are talking about completely before making radical leaps of generalizations.

oh and just for clarification to any who misunderstood what i meant by the "Harmful if you refuse to believe" read it IN context, what i said was the the only to be violent against a person who does not believe was the extremist sect of muslims.

They are both simply cults, no need to get excited. Both are in battle with one another. Both REQUIRE everyone believes (for it to really work). Both insist they are right (not possible). That's a recipe for disaster.

CrackerJax said:

They are both simply cults, no need to get excited. Both are in battle with one another. Both REQUIRE everyone believes (for it to really work). Both insist they are right (not possible). That's a recipe for disaster.

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and in what way does it depend or REQUIRE on everyone believing? its your choice to believe and thats how is is in christianity, very much so at that.

im just sayin idk where you got your facts on christianity but they're wrong.


we dont depend on others to believe. and i've got a mass of ppl that can verify your views and facts...er opinions are quite wrong. so its either the books based on opinions of the religion, or the mass of said religion....i think i'd go with the people who live it rather than someones ideas of the matter.

i just feel that if you're gonna blatantly call something a lie, have solid proof to back it.

hell there is historical documentation of christ's crucifiction. and also dont ya think that if you look closer into religions that came from israel and surrounding ground you would also realize that even the people trying to kill christians and jews (i.e. the radical muslims) recognize and also account for most of the bible but one small fact....that jesus wasnt the messiah yet a very gifted prophet. jews? same thing, yet by calling himself the son of god he was less of a prophet and more a blasphemer.

in any case christianity has ground to hold up on. i know my religion, yet im able to think outside of it. as if it wasn't there. the point is, no matter how you want to put the beginning of our existence, something is NEVER created out of nothing, and if it could one of sciences biggest foundations would be null, matter can not be created nor destroyed. just turns to another type of matter at most. same amount at that. so where does it all root to? something created the universe, if its always expanding, that means its BEEN expanding which also means it started somewhere at a pinprick size and then expanded and expanded.

started somewhere bub.

You seem to think that extortion and coercion only exist on the physical plane. They do not.

Like I said previously, the Christian church has changed its tactics but certainly employed physical torture and death to unbelievers when they could get away with it. Western society has evolved past burning folks at the stake and the church has shifted as well. This does not absolve them however. The Christian church uses their vast stolen wealth to manipulate everyone from the person in the pew to presidents of the US.
Why???? To spread the GOOD word. Yes the Christian bayonet has been sheathed lately, but the mission is the same as Islam, world recruitment of myth followers. Islam is just where the Christians were a few centuries back.Sharia's law is a parallel to the Spanish inquisition. The Spanish inquisition was not some abhorrent event gone wrong, it was the Bible being carried out per instructions.

Both religions are abhorrent in their goals, both religions are quite wrong. Both religions are myths (all religions are myths to be fair).

By the way .... "something is never created by nothing" is incorrect. You need to add... "as far as we know today" to that statement to be fully accurate.

Let's say your quote is correct however. What drives you to make up a story to explain "the beginning" when there is absolutely no evidence of it? Isn't that the true question? It is your DESIRE to worship which intrigues me. Perhaps it is hard wired into the darwinian brain as a survival technique, but the drive to worship is on full display everywhere. You can interchange the cultures and the made up belief systems, but the desire to worship fairy tales is very strong indeed. A curiosity to me and those like me that forge ahead of the pack.

stop the new world order

CrackerJax said:

You seem to think that extortion and coercion only exist on the physical plane. They do not.

Like I said previously, the Christian church has changed its tactics but certainly employed physical torture and death to unbelievers when they could get away with it. Western society has evolved past burning folks at the stake and the church has shifted as well. This does not absolve them however. The Christian church uses their vast stolen wealth to manipulate everyone from the person in the pew to presidents of the US.
Why???? To spread the GOOD word. Yes the Christian bayonet has been sheathed lately, but the mission is the same as Islam, world recruitment of myth followers. Islam is just where the Christians were a few centuries back.Sharia's law is a parallel to the Spanish inquisition. The Spanish inquisition was not some abhorrent event gone wrong, it was the Bible being carried out per instructions.

Both religions are abhorrent in their goals, both religions are quite wrong. Both religions are myths (all religions are myths to be fair).

By the way .... "something is never created by nothing" is incorrect. You need to add... "as far as we know today" to that statement to be fully accurate.

Let's say your quote is correct however. What drives you to make up a story to explain "the beginning" when there is absolutely no evidence of it? Isn't that the true question? It is your DESIRE to worship which intrigues me. Perhaps it is hard wired into the darwinian brain as a survival technique, but the drive to worship is on full display everywhere. You can interchange the cultures and the made up belief systems, but the desire to worship fairy tales is very strong indeed. A curiosity to me and those like me that forge ahead of the pack.

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No offense CJ but this is the kind of thinking that lead to the Holocaust.

Why not take it one step further and say that Humanity is the problem and we should all kill ourselves? I'll be polite, you can go first.

TheBrutalTruth said:

No offense CJ but this is the kind of thinking that lead to the Holocaust.

Why not take it one step further and say that Humanity is the problem and we should all kill ourselves? I'll be polite, you can go first.

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oorah tdt oorah.

absolutely.

the fact is everyone feels they are right. believe what you want to CJ, but the most dangerous weapon we have is knowledge.

Hi...just want to interject...there is NO verifiable historical proof of the crucifixion by ANY contemporaries of Christ.

CaptnJack said:

hell there is historical documentation of christ's crucifiction. and also dont ya think that if you look closer into religions that came from israel and surrounding ground you would also realize that even the people trying to kill christians and jews (i.e. the radical muslims) recognize and also account for most of the bible but one small fact....that jesus wasnt the messiah yet a very gifted prophet. jews? same thing, yet by calling himself the son of god he was less of a prophet and more a blasphemer.

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But...that argument nullifies the argument for a god.Who created this god,if something cannot come from nothing?

CaptnJack said:

in any case christianity has ground to hold up on. i know my religion, yet im able to think outside of it. as if it wasn't there. the point is, no matter how you want to put the beginning of our existence, something is NEVER created out of nothing, and if it could one of sciences biggest foundations would be null, matter can not be created nor destroyed. just turns to another type of matter at most. same amount at that. so where does it all root to? something created the universe, if its always expanding, that means its BEEN expanding which also means it started somewhere at a pinprick size and then expanded and expanded.

started somewhere bub.

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I disagree.The Suppression of knowledge is dangerous.Which is what the Catholic church has done time and again.Imagine how much further along science might be if the church had not burned so many wise men as heretics for seeking the way things ACTUALLY worked instead of taking the bible's version of events at face value? Are you saying it's better to remain ignorant of something,that too much knowledge is dangerous?Knowledge is never dangerous.It's the method of application of said knowledge that can be.

CaptnJack said:

oorah tdt oorah.

absolutely.

the fact is everyone feels they are right. believe what you want to CJ, but the most dangerous weapon we have is knowledge.

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no god....