Report: Obama administration knew millions wouldn't be able to keep insurance

tokeprep said:
If you'd lived through all of American history I think you would probably agree that there were worse presidents...
Click to expand...

You may very well be correct.
However, I cannot think of a more mendacious POTUS than the current one.

And remember this guy has about 3 years left in order to become the worst POTUS ever.
He can do it. I am confident in his lack of ability.
 
Wavels said:
You may very well be correct.
However, I cannot think of a more mendacious POTUS than the current one.

And remember this guy has about 3 years left in order to become the worst POTUS ever.
He can do it. I am confident in his lack of ability.
Click to expand...

This country has had some really, really, really lousy presidents...

Rampant corruption, rampant incompetence, literally setting the stage for a civil war that would kill more people than any other war--there are some incomparably terrible things buried in the past. Life is so good now and politicians so relatively behaved that we cannot even comprehend the scale of those past transgressions.
 
tokeprep said:
This country has had some really, really, really lousy presidents...

Rampant corruption, rampant incompetence, literally setting the stage for a civil war that would kill more people than any other war--there are some incomparably terrible things buried in the past. Life is so good now and politicians so relatively behaved that we cannot even comprehend the scale of those past transgressions.
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Yes indeed, human nature is such that this nation has endured it's fair share of megalomaniacs over the years. BUT...


This is now the great information age, and it seems to me that we are now saddled with a misinformation specialist.

Without his web of deceit, where would Obama be now?[/TD]
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UncleBuck said:
no, this is not about insurance companies fucking people for once. they are pretty much over being able to do that, besides of course upping premiums despite steady health care costs and blaming it on the PPACA. they can still do that.

the plans being cancelled simply don't have the minimum standard of coverage or don't cover all the things that the PPACA dictates from what i can understand. they'll most likely be simply replaced by a slightly different plan with a premium which may be the same or higher as before, although they won't be able to railroad people once they get sick anymore, or kick them off if they cost too much, and the like.

it's a lot of hysteria about nothing, basically.

but never let it be said that the righties in our nation weren't a major bunch of drama queen fairies.
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Millions of Americans are going to lose their current healthcare plan and be forced to get into a government exchange that will cost them even more.
Yup. it's a lot of hysteria about nothing.
[video=youtube;wfl55GgHr5E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E[/video]
 
UncleBuck said:
no, this is not about insurance companies fucking people for once. they are pretty much over being able to do that, besides of course upping premiums despite steady health care costs and blaming it on the PPACA. they can still do that.

the plans being cancelled simply don't have the minimum standard of coverage or don't cover all the things that the PPACA dictates from what i can understand. they'll most likely be simply replaced by a slightly different plan with a premium which may be the same or higher as before, although they won't be able to railroad people once they get sick anymore, or kick them off if they cost too much, and the like.

it's a lot of hysteria about nothing, basically.

but never let it be said that the righties in our nation weren't a major bunch of drama queen fairies.
Click to expand...
Obamacare is an obstacle to universal health coverage, not a stepping stone and it'll have to fall apart dramatically for that to occur.

I know you like him cos he seems cool about the weed thing or whatever, but he either sold yous out on this one or just fucked it up.

Contempt or disappointment...your choice.
 
Let me see if I have this right.

A president orchestrates a lie that gets thousands of Americans killed, tens of thousands of them unconcionably wounded and hundreds of thousands of innocent others killed as well, he lies to the American people and costs the country well over a Trillion dollars that we can ill afford but not a peep from the right.

Another president tries to include as many people as possible in a pool that takes care of its own, that offers generaly affordable health insurance, and a minimum of care for the least of us and you folks again go screaming into the night over how horrible this fellow is, even though most of you know full well that you all have been lying about every portion of the president's plan while putting NOTHING at all forward as a superior or even equal substitute.

I honestly don't know how you people manage to sleep at night.

I read a letter from some woman - a lawyer, who is ranting on about how they have taken her 98 dollar a month policy away and is forcing her to purchase another one that cost $290 for herself and her husband. She is pissed because she isn't getting any government subsidy because they bring home $90,000 a year.

so here is the scenario. She gets colon cancer, her 98 dollar policy gives her pretty much nothing at all but a promise of "lowest negotiated rate", which she could have done herself. Her family files BK. The tax payers and other rate payers are on the hook for the half a million dollars she didn't pay and she is OUTRAGED. All the while she is paying that much to lease her Mercedes, half that much for her entertainment package, and the other half for that unlimited data plan for her phone and her monthly manipeti.

All this because of whiners "they can't MAKE us buy. . . . " I'll wager this same woman pays the minimum necessary for her car insurance and whines when she has to pay her $2000 deductable.
 
canndo said:
Let me see if I have this right.

A president orchestrates a lie that gets thousands of Americans killed, tens of thousands of them unconcionably wounded and hundreds of thousands of innocent others killed as well, he lies to the American people and costs the country well over a Trillion dollars that we can ill afford but not a peep from the right.

Another president tries to include as many people as possible in a pool that takes care of its own, that offers generaly affordable health insurance, and a minimum of care for the least of us and you folks again go screaming into the night over how horrible this fellow is, even though most of you know full well that you all have been lying about every portion of the president's plan while putting NOTHING at all forward as a superior or even equal substitute.

I honestly don't know how you people manage to sleep at night.

I read a letter from some woman - a lawyer, who is ranting on about how they have taken her 98 dollar a month policy away and is forcing her to purchase another one that cost $290 for herself and her husband. She is pissed because she isn't getting any government subsidy because they bring home $90,000 a year.

so here is the scenario. She gets colon cancer, her 98 dollar policy gives her pretty much nothing at all but a promise of "lowest negotiated rate", which she could have done herself. Her family files BK. The tax payers and other rate payers are on the hook for the half a million dollars she didn't pay and she is OUTRAGED. All the while she is paying that much to lease her Mercedes, half that much for her entertainment package, and the other half for that unlimited data plan for her phone and her monthly manipeti.

All this because of whiners "they can't MAKE us buy. . . . " I'll wager this same woman pays the minimum necessary for her car insurance and whines when she has to pay her $2000 deductable.
Click to expand...

Add on top of that. That the Exchanges were to be a single federal one. But as a compromise with the Republicans they went with 50 exchanges instead. And to further try to sabotage shit. Republican states said no to implementing the State exchanges.

The Republicans have been trying to sabotage this for 3 years now.
 
ginwilly said:
You know why they haven't reported that? It's not true, that's why.

Women in their 20's have to have colonoscopy coverage, men have to have birth control pill coverage and mammograms. Because I chose a plan that doesn't cover breast exams doesn't mean it was a plan that didn't meet my needs, I lost that plan that I liked, but my bc pills are free now. How is this reducing costs and not really stupid? Wouldn't letting people tailor plans to their needs be cheaper?

Have you guys seen the deductibles on these bronze plans? Over 6K for an individual and over 10K for a family. Subsidize the plans all you want, make it free if need be, how are the people who qualify for subsidies going to come out of pocket 6k? It's not very well thought out.
Click to expand...


NOW you have a point. I have been in the individual insurance market for going on 6 years now. While it is great that insurance companies are forced to accept everyone regardless of their present health, we are now judged solely by the actuarials of age. I am 61, I am in great health. I was forced to pay 50 percent more on my premium because I was on cholesterol medication.

Let's think about this. I took meds that cost the insurance company no more than a few cents a day in order to stave off the consequences of my not taking that medication - cardio pulminary trouble that would surely cost the insurance company hundreds of thousands. I also took high blood pressure meds, we all know that the cost of high blood pressure woudl be stroke, heart failure, and the like, but no. The way they figured it had nothing to do with my health and everything to do with the preventative meds I took.

I lost weight and excercised and no longer needed the meds, no reduction in cost.

I currently pay about $800 a month for myself and my wife, there is no exclusion for pregnancy, no exclusion for ED pills - so if my wife gets pregnant (she can't) they will pay but I could not find a plan with such an exclusion. In short, it would be nice if as you say, we could "tailor" our plans but no such thing exists.

Now that I am healthy, I still have to pay the exact same amount as my brother, a year younger, diabetes, enlarged heart, gout, TB, a missing kidney and already two toes lopped off.

Why? because he is 60.

AS far as your deductable goes, you are absolutely correct - and i think, if you read the fine print there is a double deductable, one for medical treatment and another for medications, further, there are still three tiers of meds. So this family of 4 who brings in 32k pays only $120 a month. Fine, great, wonderful for them all but dad gets a heart attack.

Their total out of pocket is not 6k it is more like 12.5K - per year (I think), maybe 6k for the meds. The guy is now out of work and he has just been hit with not only the deductable but he still has to make his premiums every month. No, it wasn't thought out well.

What family bringing down what? double the poverty point can sustain that hit?

Still, it is better than nothing. My own situation is better but another factor comes into play. I get subsidized, my monthly bill goes down from $800 to about half that. Now what if I take that second job? what if one of my businesses begins to take off and rolls me out of that $62,000 AGI bracket. Will I think twice about the better job? Will I take into consideration the 400 bucks when I find that my raise of 100 a month throws me out of my bracket?

Still, it is better than what we had - for now. Lets see how the insurance companies work it, let's see how many loopholes they have found and will implement just as soon as enough people sign up to make it worth their while.

My insurance agent gets a call from me once a year - why? because there is a provision in these companies (or was) that the rates can't change for a year from when I enroll. Sure enough, if I don't change I get hit, the last one I was lax and saw a 32 percent increase.

But still, it's better than what the other side offered, which was pretty much nothing at all.

tort reform? bullshit.

Interstate competition? It has always existed.

shopping? yeah right, I shop, it's no fun
 
Oh, and the "worst ever president" bunk?


He has opposition that has blocked everything he has done, even things that they originaly proposed. He has opposition that has threatened to push our economy over the edge if he didn't do what ever insane thing they wanted but he is the worst president because he wouldn't give in?


It's like the old couple leaving the little cafe around the corner, the woman says "that was the worst meal I've ever eaten", and the man, agreeing says "yeah, and the portions were small"
 
canndo said:
Let me see if I have this right.

A president orchestrates a lie that gets thousands of Americans killed, tens of thousands of them unconcionably wounded and hundreds of thousands of innocent others killed as well, he lies to the American people and costs the country well over a Trillion dollars that we can ill afford but not a peep from the right.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting your information?
You're blaming the mid east wars on one man, you said he lied to the American people. Is that because you've heard it so many times from the left wing nuts that it now becomes fact?
Give some proof that the president knowingly lied to the American people about the intelligence he received. Why is there no blame on the democrats that also voted to take this country into war, if that isn't hypocritical I don't know what is.

canndo said:
Another president tries to include as many people as possible in a pool that takes care of its own, that offers generaly affordable health insurance, and a minimum of care for the least of us and you folks again go screaming into the night over how horrible this fellow is, even though most of you know full well that you all have been lying about every portion of the president's plan while putting NOTHING at all forward as a superior or even equal substitute.

I honestly don't know how you people manage to sleep at night.
Click to expand...
Even as sugar coated as you framed it, this president is forcing the people of this country to buy something they do NOT want to buy.
And what do you mean by "a pool that takes care of it's own", do you mean the strong hand of the government taking the tax payers (givers) money and subsidizing many people who choose not to work or are working under the table (takers)?

BTW, I sleep like a baby.

canndo said:
I read a letter from some woman - a lawyer, who is ranting on about how they have taken her 98 dollar a month policy away and is forcing her to purchase another one that cost $290 for herself and her husband. She is pissed because she isn't getting any government subsidy because they bring home $90,000 a year.

so here is the scenario. She gets colon cancer, her 98 dollar policy gives her pretty much nothing at all but a promise of "lowest negotiated rate", which she could have done herself. Her family files BK. The tax payers and other rate payers are on the hook for the half a million dollars she didn't pay and she is OUTRAGED. All the while she is paying that much to lease her Mercedes, half that much for her entertainment package, and the other half for that unlimited data plan for her phone and her monthly manipeti.

All this because of whiners "they can't MAKE us buy. . . . " I'll wager this same woman pays the minimum necessary for her car insurance and whines when she has to pay her $2000 deductable.
Click to expand...

Dumb bitch should have payed for a better healthcare plan instead of high siding in a Benz!
If the government could mandate personal responsibility, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we.
 
canndo said:
Let me see if I have this right.

A president orchestrates a lie that gets thousands of Americans killed, tens of thousands of them unconcionably wounded and hundreds of thousands of innocent others killed as well, he lies to the American people and costs the country well over a Trillion dollars that we can ill afford but not a peep from the right.

Another president tries to include as many people as possible in a pool that takes care of its own, that offers generaly affordable health insurance, and a minimum of care for the least of us and you folks again go screaming into the night over how horrible this fellow is, even though most of you know full well that you all have been lying about every portion of the president's plan while putting NOTHING at all forward as a superior or even equal substitute.

I honestly don't know how you people manage to sleep at night.

I read a letter from some woman - a lawyer, who is ranting on about how they have taken her 98 dollar a month policy away and is forcing her to purchase another one that cost $290 for herself and her husband. She is pissed because she isn't getting any government subsidy because they bring home $90,000 a year.

so here is the scenario. She gets colon cancer, her 98 dollar policy gives her pretty much nothing at all but a promise of "lowest negotiated rate", which she could have done herself. Her family files BK. The tax payers and other rate payers are on the hook for the half a million dollars she didn't pay and she is OUTRAGED. All the while she is paying that much to lease her Mercedes, half that much for her entertainment package, and the other half for that unlimited data plan for her phone and her monthly manipeti.

All this because of whiners "they can't MAKE us buy. . . . " I'll wager this same woman pays the minimum necessary for her car insurance and whines when she has to pay her $2000 deductable.
Click to expand...
He could've just gone Universal if he cared.

He doesnt, insurance companies GOTTA GET PAID, sucka.

I gladly pay the taxes to cover everyone for healthcare (as long as they don't take the piss).

But yous gotta pay yo insurance, bitches.
 
canndo said:
NOW you have a point. I have been in the individual insurance market for going on 6 years now. While it is great that insurance companies are forced to accept everyone regardless of their present health, we are now judged solely by the actuarials of age. I am 61, I am in great health. I was forced to pay 50 percent more on my premium because I was on cholesterol medication.

Let's think about this. I took meds that cost the insurance company no more than a few cents a day in order to stave off the consequences of my not taking that medication - cardio pulminary trouble that would surely cost the insurance company hundreds of thousands. I also took high blood pressure meds, we all know that the cost of high blood pressure woudl be stroke, heart failure, and the like, but no. The way they figured it had nothing to do with my health and everything to do with the preventative meds I took.

I lost weight and excercised and no longer needed the meds, no reduction in cost.

I currently pay about $800 a month for myself and my wife, there is no exclusion for pregnancy, no exclusion for ED pills - so if my wife gets pregnant (she can't) they will pay but I could not find a plan with such an exclusion. In short, it would be nice if as you say, we could "tailor" our plans but no such thing exists.

Now that I am healthy, I still have to pay the exact same amount as my brother, a year younger, diabetes, enlarged heart, gout, TB, a missing kidney and already two toes lopped off.

Why? because he is 60.

AS far as your deductable goes, you are absolutely correct - and i think, if you read the fine print there is a double deductable, one for medical treatment and another for medications, further, there are still three tiers of meds. So this family of 4 who brings in 32k pays only $120 a month. Fine, great, wonderful for them all but dad gets a heart attack.

Their total out of pocket is not 6k it is more like 12.5K - per year (I think), maybe 6k for the meds. The guy is now out of work and he has just been hit with not only the deductable but he still has to make his premiums every month. No, it wasn't thought out well.

What family bringing down what? double the poverty point can sustain that hit?

Still, it is better than nothing. My own situation is better but another factor comes into play. I get subsidized, my monthly bill goes down from $800 to about half that. Now what if I take that second job? what if one of my businesses begins to take off and rolls me out of that $62,000 AGI bracket. Will I think twice about the better job? Will I take into consideration the 400 bucks when I find that my raise of 100 a month throws me out of my bracket?

Still, it is better than what we had - for now. Lets see how the insurance companies work it, let's see how many loopholes they have found and will implement just as soon as enough people sign up to make it worth their while.

My insurance agent gets a call from me once a year - why? because there is a provision in these companies (or was) that the rates can't change for a year from when I enroll. Sure enough, if I don't change I get hit, the last one I was lax and saw a 32 percent increase.

But still, it's better than what the other side offered, which was pretty much nothing at all.

tort reform? bullshit.

Interstate competition? It has always existed.

shopping? yeah right, I shop, it's no fun
Click to expand...

This was a well thought out post, thank you for taking the time.

You are predicating your opinion that it's better on what we have been told, and what we've been told so far has a really bad track record. I'm predicating my opinion on my history of dealing with insurance and government regulations. My opinion is admittedly as biased as yours. I have history on my side, you have hope on yours. Health Insurance needed reform, it really did, nobody I know denies this. What we've done is taken Romneycare, that was designed for the demographics by actuaries in Mass and said WV, TX, ID will be under the same plan as NY, Cal and MI, actuaries and demographics be damned. The ACA will not bankrupt the country anymore than we already are. It won't cause all doctors to quit. It won't throw us into the dark ages in medicine. People are upset over the invasion and route our leaders took to pass this bill so there been some emotional outrage and misrepresentation from the opposition. It also is NOT deficit neutral, you can NOT keep your plan or doctor, everyone is NOT going to be insured, premiums are NOT coming down, people will NOT stop using the ER as a clinic, people ARE being cut to 29hrs and more if you need. The special exemptions for the connected is not helping the image any either.

When you look at various layers of government bureaucracy created with each subsequent major central plan, and examined the resulting jump in health care cost, we see they are due in part to taking professional people out of patient care and into administrative positions designed to help us stay in compliance. The health care industry is very top heavy, there is more licensed people not doing patient care than there are doing care. That genie is never going away either.

There were several Republican plans put forth by the likes McCain and his ilk, and we should all be thankful they weren't law because it would just be a different bad. Those ideas still involve central planning. The plan supported by people like myself was to leave it to the states. I'd rather see 50 different ideas that we can borrow from. This plan is unacceptable to people like yourself so instead my people are forced to live by your will. That's really what's so distasteful and shameful to us that you don't understand. Less central planning leads to increased efficiency and decreased waste. That's something I think we all agree on when it involves our jobs, but not concerning the government.

Good on ya for making positive life-style changes. I'm going through those now and it's harder than I thought it would be. I'm eliminating processed food and am a bachelor now. It's so easy to order a pizza or stop at a drive thru when it's for 1. This is something the Japanese have right. They spend 90% percent of their healthcare costs on preventative medicine and 10% on care, while we are the opposite. Americans want that pill instead of changing diets and exercising.

Good to see you posting, it's been like a jr high locker room in here lately.
 
canndo said:
Oh, and the "worst ever president" bunk?

He has opposition that has blocked everything he has done, even things that they originaly proposed. He has opposition that has threatened to push our economy over the edge if he didn't do what ever insane thing they wanted but he is the worst president because he wouldn't give in?

It's like the old couple leaving the little cafe around the corner, the woman says "that was the worst meal I've ever eaten", and the man, agreeing says "yeah, and the portions were small"
Click to expand...

Part of being the president is accepting that you are not an autocrat but constitutionally required to share your power with the congress, which is not elected at the same time or on the same terms as you are. The constitution was intentionally designed this way--the house is always, always, always supposed to be closer to the people than the president is; the congress is always, always, always supposed to have more power than the president does.

The imperial presidency is a relatively modern development in American history; the rise of mass media has enabled the president to become more significant than he previously was in the American federal government, enabling him to wield more political power and influence. But the constitution has not changed and the congress has retained its powers.

Reagan and Clinton were great presidents because they recognized that they had to work with the other side to accomplish anything. Obama is a lousy president because he fantasized being above all that--he poisoned the well believing his own bullshit, imagining that his control over the Democratic party was unlimited and that his mandate would stretch over his entire 8 year term. Any real leader, and certainly any serious constitutional scholar, wouldn't have made such an egregious and fatal error. When the president says "Fuck you!" to the other side and refuses to budge he slits his own throat and relegates himself to failure.

That's true of any president from any party.
 
Harrekin said:
He could've just gone Universal if he cared.

He doesnt, insurance companies GOTTA GET PAID, sucka.

I gladly pay the taxes to cover everyone for healthcare (as long as they don't take the piss).

But yous gotta pay yo insurance, bitches.
Click to expand...

1 he isnt a dictator
2 If the insurance companies reallty wanted this they wouldn't be spending 100s of millions fighting it
 
ChesusRice said:
1 he isnt a dictator
2 If the insurance companies reallty wanted this they wouldn't be spending 100s of millions fighting it
Click to expand...

They didn't. They spent $100 million over 2 years to fight it and many times that in the same span to write it.

The valuation of health insurance companies on the stock market has never been higher than it is right now. Never. If they're not going to make more money than they ever have before, why are these companies worth more than they ever have been?
 
My wifes health insurance stock is at the same level it was 5 years ago
And she works for one of the top 5 in the nation
 
ChesusRice said:
1 he isnt a dictator
2 If the insurance companies reallty wanted this they wouldn't be spending 100s of millions fighting it
Click to expand...

YEah, 100's of millions, or 1/ 700th the profits to make it look good so people like you think they are fighting it. Guess what? It works, your posts are proof.
 
ChesusRice said:
My wifes health insurance stock is at the same level it was 5 years ago
And she works for one of the top 5 in the nation
Click to expand...

Cigna: All time peak in July 2013.
Aetna: All time peak in September 2013.
UnitedHealth: All time peak in September 2013.
Humana: All time peak in September 2013.

By process of elimination, your wife's health insurance stock is Wellpoint, which hit an all time high in July of 2012. You're right that it was at the same level 5 years ago (not true of any of the other insurance companies I just listed, for the record), but you neglected to mention that it dropped to $30 and then tripled over the next 5 years. Obamacare's been a real bitch to Wellpoint, hasn't it?
 
tokeprep said:
Health care costs aren't "steady," they're increasing as they always have. If you go by Kaiser's numbers, the increases in premiums approximately track the increases in healthcare costs.

What you meant to say was that the rate of increases has decreased or been steady, but that doesn't mean the same thing at all, does it?
Click to expand...

no, retard, i said what i meant to say.

the increases have been in line with the growth in the economy, moron.

Health Care Costs Are Holding Relatively Steady -- For Now


http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/01/08/health-care-costs-are-holding-relatively-steady-for-now/

health care costs have composed the same percentage of our economy for three years in a row now. the same percentage.

are you dumb?

is this what a devryU certificate of completion gets you nowadays?




greenlikemoney said:
Seriously, sooo many of you spout your talking points, play the race card, etc etc etc. The facts are the facts, Barack Obama is a liar and will go down in history as the worst President in the history of this country. He lied about the IRS, Benghazi, NSA, ACA etc etc. Flat out lies. Anyone disputing that has some disconnected wiring in what is left of their brain. Good God people......


beenthere, SSHZ, desert dude and 1 others like this.
RosaSparx
Click to expand...

lol, you have no historical perspective whatsoever, but at least you're not being dumb alone. plenty of fellow historically challenged idiots also 'liked' that post.
 
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