Seed Companies Are Way Greedy, Dudes.

Also I want to see your source that says the components of a big mac meal including fries and soft drift cost 25 cents because I don't believe that either.

derfDGAF said:

so you think that no matter what charge is being put on a commodity, if someone buys it, that price is just? you lay the greed on the consumer? thats interesting dude, i'm not sayin that in a dick way either..definatly a different point of view. i respect that man. i do disagree though..i know weed isn't food water or sunlight but i find it neccessary in my life, so i'm going to pay whatever price is being charged for premium seeds. seed company owners know that, and when they take advantage of that, i feel its morally wrong. its just like LA confidential clones going for $75,000 in compassion clubs within LA, or NYC Diesel going for $1,200 an ounce back in the day..stoners taking advantage of other stoners. some people, like myself, find that disturbing because they would never rape a profit margin like that to anyone. i'm a businessman and i'll never be that rutheless, and the truth is i'm more successful than probably 95% of the worlds population. financially i mean. there are others who see that as pure business and do not care how unfair a price is, as long as someone is willing to pay it.

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your first line just about sums up capitalism. if it's really so "unjust" as you put it, one of two things would most likely happen. option 1 is that no one will buy it and the proprietor will go bust. option 2 is that another proprietor will offer the product with different options such as price or quality, and this generates competition and fosters supply and demand, which in turn regulates a price market. for someone who describes himself as a businessman you have a really funny way of looking at economics.

derfDGAF said:

so you think that no matter what charge is being put on a commodity, if someone buys it, that price is just? you lay the greed on the consumer? thats interesting dude, i'm not sayin that in a dick way either..definatly a different point of view. i respect that man. i do disagree though..i know weed isn't food water or sunlight but i find it neccessary in my life, so i'm going to pay whatever price is being charged for premium seeds. seed company owners know that, and when they take advantage of that, i feel its morally wrong. its just like LA confidential clones going for $75,000 in compassion clubs within LA, or NYC Diesel going for $1,200 an ounce back in the day..stoners taking advantage of other stoners. some people, like myself, find that disturbing because they would never rape a profit margin like that to anyone. i'm a businessman and i'll never be that rutheless, and the truth is i'm more successful than probably 95% of the worlds population. financially i mean. there are others who see that as pure business and do not care how unfair a price is, as long as someone is willing to pay it.

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You have to understand every company operates this way & things don't tend to change without the consumer changing. If you were charging $50 a dub & 500 people a month were buying it, you can't say you'd stop charging $50 a dub due to morals. You might say you would, but 95% of the people wouldn't. It's easy to say you 'would' do it differently, but doesn't mean you 'would' once in that circumstance. Like I said, when water companies can charge you $1.38 a bottle when it is virtually FREE to make water, & the water they are selling isn't even as healthy as water from the drain, then how can one complain about seeds? Seeds are in way higher demand, way riskier to sell, & a lot more of an operation.

Water can be produces by anyone, seeds cant. Water can be sold by anyone, seeds cant. Water is legal, seeds are not. Water comes from mother nature as well as seeds. What's the difference? Pretty much nothing. When you start selling an ILLEGAL product & you send that product OVER state lines, you'll be charging an arm-leg too. I don't think your understanding the risk they take for us growers to send these seeds via-mail. That's a federal crime right off the bat. It's not that easy dude.

I sympathize with the idea that seeds shouldn't be as expensive as they are, but to imply that the prices charged aren't worth it is a stretch. breeding awesome strains is very time consuming and laborious; requiring several overlapping skills and the resources to grow out large pools for selection and then there's the stabilization aspects too. It's more involved than you'd think unless you've bred em yourself. But hey, grow bagseed if ya want to; you'll get great personal smoke but most of it hermies supereasy and flowers forever. I'll pay the money with a smile.

guy incognito said:

Bullshit. Where do you live that the cigarette tax is $1.25? I'd be willing to bet a portion of that $5.75 also contains taxes.

Quality shirts do not cost $1. $2.30-$3 is not $1.

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guy incognito said:

Also I want to see your source that says the components of a big mac meal including fries and soft drift cost 25 cents because I don't believe that either.

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Your not understanding that companies buy in BULK of thousands, there is no way they are getting charged anywhere near what a home business would. I have no source of the Big Mac ordeal, I have seen CNBC reports on it, if you want to go look those up via-torrent & download them, be my guest. I have also done simple Google searches that will give an estimate of how much they cost to produce. Not to mention Mc. Donalds MEAT is made up of shit, it is not what you think it is, therefore they pay EVEN LESS then they would if it were 100% beef. Another thing you don't know though because all you wanted to do was disagree.

I find it funny that your calling me out on my source when in fact you have produced no source yourself. I make T-Shirts, I watch the news, my source is my knowledge that I've gained. I know what's what, I have a business degree, I understand what goes into a company & how profits are generated. I'm almost certain you know close to nothing about business, so this argument with you is mute. Your acting as a child, I simply made a statement, an APPROXIMATION, ESTIMATE, which I was clearly almost right on about.

I don't understand people like you, it amazes me the stupidity level of some... welcome to the recycling-bin. [ignored] Your reply won't be seen, so save yourself the time of typing. I'm sure you'll reply anyways though, that's what you people do.


EDIT; I live in Stanislaus County, I can go to a local gas station right now & buy cigarettes, take a photo of the receipt & show you proof. But why? Your the type of person obviously that believes everything is a conspiracy, lmao... you still wouldn't believe. Your not worth that time & I don't smoke cigarettes so your not worth my money either.

Like I said, HOME BUSINESS shirts cost $2-3... do you think corporations are paying the same I am for shirts? No. So my statement stands, learn how to comprehend, I said HOME BUSINESS costs $2-3 not REAL COMPANIES.

Here's your source that you were ignored, because you'll probably think I lied about ignoring you too;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45183771@N04/5373361389/
Like I said, save your time... just doing you a favor.

Supply and demand they have overhead cost which translates into higher prices for you the consumer. one day when the Weed is legal(probably not in my lifetime) you can go buy your genetics at walmart

kronicsmurf said:

Supply and demand they have overhead cost which translates into higher prices for you the consumer. one day when the Weed is legal(probably not in my lifetime) you can go buy your genetics at walmart

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True statement. Lol... Wal-Mart will be the first to capitalize on that one.

LaKapitone said:

You have to understand every company operates this way & things don't tend to change without the consumer changing. If you were charging $50 a dub & 500 people a month were buying it, you can't say you'd stop charging $50 a dub due to morals. You might say you would, but 95% of the people wouldn't. It's easy to say you 'would' do it differently, but doesn't mean you 'would' once in that circumstance. Like I said, when water companies can charge you $1.38 a bottle when it is virtually FREE to make water, & the water they are selling isn't even as healthy as water from the drain, then how can one complain about seeds? Seeds are in way higher demand, way riskier to sell, & a lot more of an operation.

Water can be produces by anyone, seeds cant. Water can be sold by anyone, seeds cant. Water is legal, seeds are not. Water comes from mother nature as well as seeds. What's the difference? Pretty much nothing. When you start selling an ILLEGAL product & you send that product OVER state lines, you'll be charging an arm-leg too. I don't think your understanding the risk they take for us growers to send these seeds via-mail. That's a federal crime right off the bat. It's not that easy dude.

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not every business dude, and you'd be foolish to think those businesses which do not are unsuccessful. i can't say i own a business per say, but i can say i'm a businessman who believes in fair price and has been benefiting from that mantra for a few years and i'm already reaping huge rewards whilst remaining true to those beliefs. its not for everyone, sure..some people are so wrapped up in the pyramid scheme they are willing to fuck anyone over to get there. i got to where i wanted to be and did not have to step on anyone to get there. if you want to tell yourself these seed companies aren't getting disgustingly fucking rich off of a product they could sell 75% cheaper and still rip a huge margin, thats your choice all day and i respect that for real. i just disagree the shit out of it. respectfully!

like stated before the only thing i have a problem with is the out of stock bs...ive been waiting for months for like three different strains..

blah..and all this bitchin about month making..if you owned a business and that was your only money supply you would do what it took to make money as well


seeds or no seeds.. pz

oh i wanted to say something about the price of seeds..its still illegal to grow lol theyre taking a risk to get you seeds..so...whats the problem..

derfDGAF said:

not every business dude, and you'd be foolish to think those businesses which do not are unsuccessful. i can't say i own a business per say, but i can say i'm a businessman who believes in fair price and has been benefiting from that mantra for a few years and i'm already reaping huge rewards whilst remaining true to those beliefs. its not for everyone, sure..some people are so wrapped up in the pyramid scheme they are willing to fuck anyone over to get there. i got to where i wanted to be and did not have to step on anyone to get there. if you want to tell yourself these seed companies aren't getting disgustingly fucking rich off of a product they could sell 75% cheaper and still rip a huge margin, thats your choice all day and i respect that for real. i just disagree the shit out of it. respectfully!

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Really, if you can run a legit business without fucking anyone, more power to you. But, from business school to business lectures, to business conventions, every owner has told us or me the same thing. That the only way to get to the absolute top or where you want to get, is by inflation. By fucking people. That's just what I've been taught though, like I said, more power to you if you don't have to. But like I said, it may be easy to say one thing but do another.

You might be able to say your business is doing fine without fucking anyone, but are you making 1-million a year? No. So your business is like mine, or anyone from home, a home business. BIG DIFFERENCE. It's easy to be honest from a home business standpoint or local business, it's much harder to contain that same honesty when your making millions. Sorry, you will probably never understand that because you will probably never make millions. I don't know one millionaire & I have met some, not many, but some & I have read about more that were all dishonest, that's the reality of it. Sorry if it sucks, but the truth hurts, you know? Lol.

I can also watch Survivor & say I wouldn't fuck anyone for 1-million, but once I'm on that twack show, I probably would. Just like every celebrity who said if they got rich they'd take care of this person & that person, yet once they're rich, family ties usually get worse. Money makes people corrupt in large amounts, that's life, that's a statistic, that's not made up jibberish.

Even that fucking Facebook dude had to fuck people to get where he is at, perfect example. I have a home business too & not once have I fucked someone, but I can't say the same if I were to go global. I'm being honest & I'm one of the most honest people out there morally, I believe in karma & I don't believe in fucking people. But if your saying you wouldn't fuck some people to get your business global or nationwide, your already lying.

There is a fine line between making hundreds/thousands a month & making millions a day. Fine, fine... line.

You also have to take into consideration, does your business that your running so honestly, consists of illegal activity? Does it consists of federal crimes? Does it consists of trafficking illegal products OVER state lines? If it does, more power to you, if it doesn't, your example is mute, because you have no idea what it takes to do those things. I'm almost certain your business is legit, because if it weren't, there would be no way to run it in a honest way. These people have to do what they do because of the risk/demand, it's as simple as that.

Until you start shipping illegal products to customers over state lines & run a federal chance of getting caught, you have no word in what it takes. There is also a fine line between making T-Shirts like myself & selling them from home & making seeds & selling them from a warehouse.

It's common-sense dude. You cannot compare your business to a business that is ran illegally. No disrespect to you, but I don't think you understand the difference in your business & they're business, if you did, you'd understand why they operate like they do. I wouldn't never consider running the risk they do, the only way I would is if you paid me 1-million dollars. Would you run a business that stands a chance of 14+ years in prison if caught for $3.00 a seed? No, you wouldn't, you'd probably tell the person to fuck themselves or give you more money. You'd probably tell friends the only way your doing that is for a million dollars & even then you'd think about it. So if you wouldn't run that sort of business for cheap, what makes you think they would?

I don't think $3.00 per seed for a 14+ year federal offense is worth it, if you do, your stupid. Like I said, I'm not disrespecting you, just being honest. I don't think your stupid, by any means, just saying if you think that, you are. For anyone who thinks it isn't that big of an offense, it is, were talking an ILLEGAL PRODUCT being DISTRIBUTED in HIGH VOLUMES to U.S. CUSTOMERS, over STATE LINES, on a FEDERAL LEVEL. That warrants a hefty sentence. Sorry...

the seed companies only charge what the public is willing to pay. also, there are some reasonable prices out there. Don't forget that what were dealing with here, is still the worlds most controversial substance... so your paying more than a little bit because of the complications involved in that. one day seeds will be sold by the hundred in nursery store displays. but until then, this is how it is.

and if you don't like it, don't buy them. the more than obvious solution is to clone, or breed your own seeds. bitching about an industry you know very little about (besides the product end) is asinine

angrygranola said:

the seed companies only charge what the public is willing to pay. also, there are some reasonable prices out there. Don't forget that what were dealing with here, is still the worlds most controversial substance... so your paying more than a little bit because of the complications involved in that. one day seeds will be sold by the hundred in nursery store displays. but until then, this is how it is.

and if you don't like it, don't buy them. the more than obvious solution is to clone, or breed your own seeds. bitching about an industry you know very little about (besides the product end) is asinine

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Exactly... especially that last line. People don't understand what goes into this. I would never trade my freedom for $3.00 a seed. Never! I wouldn't even do it for $10.00 a seed, not worth it. These dudes could charge more if they wanted... lucky they don't. Because I would.

angrygranola said:

the seed companies only charge what the public is willing to pay. also, there are some reasonable prices out there. Don't forget that what were dealing with here, is still the worlds most controversial substance... so your paying more than a little bit because of the complications involved in that. one day seeds will be sold by the hundred in nursery store displays. but until then, this is how it is.

and if you don't like it, don't buy them. the more than obvious solution is to clone, or breed your own seeds. bitching about an industry you know very little about (besides the product end) is asinine

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Very good points, especially the one regarding the subject matter.

It's funny how some smokers forget cannabis is actually illegal.

No matter how public opinion on the issue is trending, at the end of the day it's still against the law. Which is the primary driver concerning cost.

Take away the Prohibition factor and cannabis seeds won't be much more than tomato seeds.

All that aside, the prices are what the market will bear.

And to anyone bitching about the prices, I say DON'T BUY THE DAMN SEEDS. Be content with bagseed and leave it at that.

Johnnyorganic said:

Very good points, especially the one regarding the subject matter.

It's funny how some smokers forget cannabis is actually illegal.

No matter how public opinion on the issue is trending, at the end of the day it's still against the law. Which is the primary driver concerning cost.

Take away the Prohibition factor and cannabis seeds won't be much more than tomato seeds.

All that aside, the prices are what the market will bear.

And to anyone bitching about the prices, I say DON'T BUY THE DAMN SEEDS. Be content with bagseed and leave it at that.

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The exact point I made in my first post, don't buy if you don't like, simple. I mean, I see plenty of people who won't touch Starbucks coffee due to price, same goes with seeds. Nobody is forcing you to buy the seed, just like nobody is forcing you to buy a cup of coffee for $6.00. You can very well make your own coffee at home & the same theory applies for seeds, you can very well breed at home.

This really isn't a debate. This is one company out of a million that inflates prices. An in my opinion, this company has beetter reason to inflate prices over companies such as Mc. Donalds, Starbucks, Etc. The real greed lies within those companies, not the seed company.

If you have a problem with seed companies then you have a problem with 95% of the companies ran today. If your going to say seed companies aren't fair then I hope your also against Mc. Donalds, Starbucks, Wal-Mart, Target, Raley's, Pepsi, Marlboro, Sony, Microsoft, Crayola for Gods sake. The list goes on. You cant say one isn't fair without saying they're ALL not fair.

LaKapitone said:

Your not understanding that companies buy in BULK of thousands, there is no way they are getting charged anywhere near what a home business would. I have no source of the Big Mac ordeal, I have seen CNBC reports on it, if you want to go look those up via-torrent & download them, be my guest. I have also done simple Google searches that will give an estimate of how much they cost to produce. Not to mention Mc. Donalds MEAT is made up of shit, it is not what you think it is, therefore they pay EVEN LESS then they would if it were 100% beef. Another thing you don't know though because all you wanted to do was disagree.

I find it funny that your calling me out on my source when in fact you have produced no source yourself. I make T-Shirts, I watch the news, my source is my knowledge that I've gained. I know what's what, I have a business degree, I understand what goes into a company & how profits are generated. I'm almost certain you know close to nothing about business, so this argument with you is mute. Your acting as a child, I simply made a statement, an APPROXIMATION, ESTIMATE, which I was clearly almost right on about.

I don't understand people like you, it amazes me the stupidity level of some... welcome to the recycling-bin. [ignored] Your reply won't be seen, so save yourself the time of typing. I'm sure you'll reply anyways though, that's what you people do.


EDIT; I live in Stanislaus County, I can go to a local gas station right now & buy cigarettes, take a photo of the receipt & show you proof. But why? Your the type of person obviously that believes everything is a conspiracy, lmao... you still wouldn't believe. Your not worth that time & I don't smoke cigarettes so your not worth my money either.

Like I said, HOME BUSINESS shirts cost $2-3... do you think corporations are paying the same I am for shirts? No. So my statement stands, learn how to comprehend, I said HOME BUSINESS costs $2-3 not REAL COMPANIES.

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That's fine this guy won't see me, I just want everyone else to understand what a tool he is.

"I can go to a local gas station right now & buy cigarettes, take a photo of the receipt & show you proof."

- yes, proof of what they charge. Why don't you buy some gas for $3/gal and then tell me they don't charge you taxes on that either, or buy some liquor and show me "proof" they don't charge taxes. The taxes are already incorporated into the product. If you bought a pack of cigarettes for $3, and they "added" $4 in taxes people would be outraged. But if you just roll the tax right into the product morons like you won't even realize they've been taxed.

As of 2009 there are only 3 states (Mississippi, Missouri, and south carolina) whos state and federal tax for cigarettes is under $1.25 per pack, and that doesn't include sales tax. Once you incorporate sales tax i'm pretty sure all states are over $1.25 per pack, most of them significantly more (my state/fed tax is $3.01 before sales tax).

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2009-03-31-cigarettetax_N.htm

"I find it funny that your calling me out on my source when in fact you have produced no source yourself."

I'm not the one claiming big mac meals contain 25 cents worth of product. I don't understand why you think I should do the research and find sources to support/dispute what YOU claim. After a bit of research though I am convinced you are talking out of your ass and so I will discontinue my research now and just assumed anything you say is "an APPROXIMATION, ESTIMATE" and NOT based on real world evidence.

comparing the inflation of a mcdonald's cheeseburger to taxes on a pack of ciggs is about the dumbest thing i've seen today. news flash: new hampshire has NO sales tax, no liquor tax. what in the hell does any of it have to do with an international seed company's right to charge what they see fit? seed prices have very little to do with actual taxes, so i don't get where this discussion is headed.

They are unrelated. The guy claimed a big mac meal consisted of 25 cents worth of actual stuff and the rest is labor and a huge profit mark up. I think he's full of shit so I called him out.

He also claimed the reason cigarette prices are so high is the greedy manufacturers huge mark up (similar to the theme of the thread) and not due to tax. Even in new hapmshire you are paying $2.34 in taxes per pack without sales tax as of 2009.

it sound expensive but think about what they invest to make the different strains and the botnist they employ plus im sure they got some legal problems and all the backing wharehouses and so on they need to make a profit to do you work for free? if you spend 50 on a 5 pack of seeds dose that mean that when you harvest one plant youll sell the harvest for the $10 that the seed cost you or will you factor in the lights and soil and potts and nutes ant time you put into it plus im sure you would wanna make a profit of some sort...

lowrider2000 said:

it sound expensive but think about what they invest to make the different strains and the botnist they employ plus im sure they got some legal problems and all the backing wharehouses and so on they need to make a profit to do you work for free? if you spend 50 on a 5 pack of seeds dose that mean that when you harvest one plant youll sell the harvest for the $10 that the seed cost you or will you factor in the lights and soil and potts and nutes ant time you put into it plus im sure you would wanna make a profit of some sort...

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And if you cloned those plants you not only harvested 5 plants, but could have a potentially unlimited amount more of the exact same genetics. The only reason I will order more seeds is when I want specific genetics. I wouldn't mind having a bunch of different strains all in a perpetual grow. Get a nice variety of a constant supply of widely differing genetics. The high price has limited me to 2 seed bank bought strains at the moment.