Subcool's Super Soil

pbsmith said:

hey readers
super soil + TGA genetics = 1st place 2010 medical cup. congrats subcool.

jack grean
greanbicycles

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That is awesome! congrats Sub!!

Hi sub & followers,

I have been having crazy problems with canna coco&terra pro+ using liquid chem ferts of various kinds, (I think it is Mg lockout/deficiency for some reason, tried epsom salt, different ph etc., not sure what the real problem is,) and I have been pondering switching to a convenient pre-mix soil for a long time.

I have 9 plants in 5 gallon pots vegged to about 1.5 feet that have been stunted and had an imbalance of some sort, and about 12 plants in 1.5 gallon pots about 8 inches high, and some seeds.

I am going to mix up sub's recipe tomorrow and transplant these plants, and I have some questions: I have been keeping my ph around 6.0, should I immediately feed at my regular tap water ph (7.2,) or should I slowly increase it? Should they bounce back ok? I am going to try and shake off as much of the old medium from the roots as possible and slap em in 7-gal pots... Any tips would be helpful, thanks! I have really been hurting, looking for something simple that works! I especially love the idea of being able to set a huge rez of plain tap water on drip timers and leave for extended periods...anyone into this?

Tentmaster said:

Hi sub & followers,

I have been having crazy problems with canna coco&terra pro+ using liquid chem ferts of various kinds, (I think it is Mg lockout/deficiency for some reason, tried epsom salt, different ph etc., not sure what the real problem is,) and I have been pondering switching to a convenient pre-mix soil for a long time.

I have 9 plants in 5 gallon pots vegged to about 1.5 feet that have been stunted and had an imbalance of some sort, and about 12 plants in 1.5 gallon pots about 8 inches high, and some seeds.

I am going to mix up sub's recipe tomorrow and transplant these plants, and I have some questions: I have been keeping my ph around 6.0, should I immediately feed at my regular tap water ph (7.2,) or should I slowly increase it? Should they bounce back ok? I am going to try and shake off as much of the old medium from the roots as possible and slap em in 7-gal pots... Any tips would be helpful, thanks! I have really been hurting, looking for something simple that works! I especially love the idea of being able to set a huge rez of plain tap water on drip timers and leave for extended periods...anyone into this?

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Don't take this the wrong way bro, but this sounds like a really bad idea. Your 9 bigger plants are pretty far into the game to be trying a new method, especially of they're already stresses or deficient. Besides, the plants are supposed to veg in the 7 gallon pots long enough to where they'll be rootbound about halfway into flower -- and besides that tap water and drip feeders are not going to work with organic supersoil. I would suggest that you do your best with the 9 bigger plants as they are, and scrap them if you have to. The smaller ones you could probably get transplanted into 7 gallon supersoil, but I don't know your conditions and what not. Pop some new beans and follow Sub's method EXACTLY from scratch as spelled out in this thread if you want a good handle on this supersoil method. Trust me -- if you do it right, you won't be disappointed. Just my two cents, hope this helps.

"and besides that tap water and drip feeders are not going to work with organic supersoil."

I don't understand why this would be; aren't you supposed to just add tap water? What would drippers change? I'm talking about drain-to-waste...

Not taken the wrong way at all, that's why I asked thanks man My other thought is to break down and shell out for a good R/O filter and see if that fixes my issues... I'm leaning that way now since I don't have that much time... I'm running out of buds!

Tentmaster said:

Hi sub & followers,

I have been having crazy problems with canna coco&terra pro+ using liquid chem ferts of various kinds, (I think it is Mg lockout/deficiency for some reason, tried epsom salt, different ph etc., not sure what the real problem is,) and I have been pondering switching to a convenient pre-mix soil for a long time.

I have 9 plants in 5 gallon pots vegged to about 1.5 feet that have been stunted and had an imbalance of some sort, and about 12 plants in 1.5 gallon pots about 8 inches high, and some seeds.

I am going to mix up sub's recipe tomorrow and transplant these plants, and I have some questions: I have been keeping my ph around 6.0, should I immediately feed at my regular tap water ph (7.2,) or should I slowly increase it? Should they bounce back ok? I am going to try and shake off as much of the old medium from the roots as possible and slap em in 7-gal pots... Any tips would be helpful, thanks! I have really been hurting, looking for something simple that works! I especially love the idea of being able to set a huge rez of plain tap water on drip timers and leave for extended periods...anyone into this?

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This is not gonna work for you, Subs mix you need to let cook for a few weeks, read through the thread and it will go through the whole process.

I hope you can get things straightened out.

Tentmaster said:

"and besides that tap water and drip feeders are not going to work with organic supersoil."

I don't understand why this would be; aren't you supposed to just add tap water? What would drippers change? I'm talking about drain-to-waste...

Not taken the wrong way at all, that's why I asked thanks man My other thought is to break down and shell out for a good R/O filter and see if that fixes my issues... I'm leaning that way now since I don't have that much time... I'm running out of buds!

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Tap water is a risky game with organics. If your water supply has cloramine, then you're screwed -- even using an air stone to bubble the water for a couple days won't get that stuff out, and it fries organics. If you just have chlorinated water, don't use it until it has sat out and/or bubbled for a couple days to evaporate the chlorine, or same story. It's not so much the dissolved solids in tap water as much as it is the chlorine that'll get you. And the reason I said drippers seemed like a bad idea is only because it seems like an easy way to get in the habit of overwatering, which is another adjustment people ar gonna have to make when they switch to supersoil. This stuff likes to dry out for sure. And as said above, if you don't cook the supersoil/let it sit out for a month or longer, than the pH will be off and a lot of the mix won't be broken down enough for the plant to uptake. I wish you luck though, whatever you choose. . .

thanks for the knowledge sub and every one else here!!!

J.W. said:

Tap water is a risky game with organics. If your water supply has cloramine, then you're screwed -- even using an air stone to bubble the water for a couple days won't get that stuff out, and it fries organics. If you just have chlorinated water, don't use it until it has sat out and/or bubbled for a couple days to evaporate the chlorine, or same story. It's not so much the dissolved solids in tap water as much as it is the chlorine that'll get you. And the reason I said drippers seemed like a bad idea is only because it seems like an easy way to get in the habit of overwatering, which is another adjustment people ar gonna have to make when they switch to supersoil. This stuff likes to dry out for sure. And as said above, if you don't cook the supersoil/let it sit out for a month or longer, than the pH will be off and a lot of the mix won't be broken down enough for the plant to uptake. I wish you luck though, whatever you choose. . .

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Chloramine is easily removed with a catalytic carbon filter. $200 for a good one.

That's a good call, but if you use the catalytic carbon filter, doesn't it remove all the minerals in the water as well? If so, then you'll have to use cal-mag periodically, but if not, then the carbon filter sounds like something worth investing in for sure. Thanks dude.

Tentmaster said:

"and besides that tap water and drip feeders are not going to work with organic supersoil."

I don't understand why this would be; aren't you supposed to just add tap water? What would drippers change? I'm talking about drain-to-waste...

Not taken the wrong way at all, that's why I asked thanks man My other thought is to break down and shell out for a good R/O filter and see if that fixes my issues... I'm leaning that way now since I don't have that much time... I'm running out of buds!

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I asked Sub about this when i saw him last earlier this year and he says tap water is ok as long as you test it. You can also let it sit for a couple days in the sun to remove the chlorine

I have been doing this for 5 or 6 months so far with great results, I was using spring water purchased from the store before that

Yes, I also use tap water. Since I happen to live in a metropolitan area, the municipal water here is pretty good and I let mine sit out for three of four days before use and have never had a problem. I pH test it, and I usually have to use a couple drops of a citric-acid based organic pH down to drop it from around 8.5 to about 6.5, or greenish-pee color. Most are not so lucky, though, and some tap water is not suitable at all for organics.

J.W. said:

That's a good call, but if you use the catalytic carbon filter, doesn't it remove all the minerals in the water as well? If so, then you'll have to use cal-mag periodically, but if not, then the carbon filter sounds like something worth investing in for sure. Thanks dude.

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I can't speak for every catalytic carbon system, but generally not.
I have a "Hydrologic Tall-Boy" filter:

http://plantitearth.com/environmental-control/hydrologic-water-purification-systems.aspx

My local grow shop arranged with the manufacturer to replace the standard carbon filter with a significantly better KDF85 catalytic carbon filter specifically made for removing chloramines.

According to the manufacturer it removes 99% of chloramines, chlorine, hydrogen sulfide, and metals like iron, lead, arsenic, aluminum, mercury, and cadmium...But it doesn't remove calcium or magnesium like an RO system does. If you were using RO water my guess is there is plenty of Cal/Mag in the super soil already from the Dolomite lime and Epsom salt.

gangaman said:

I can't speak for every catalytic carbon system, but generally not.
I have a "Hydrologic Tall-Boy" filter:

http://plantitearth.com/environmental-control/hydrologic-water-purification-systems.aspx

My local grow shop arranged with the manufacturer to replace the standard carbon filter with a significantly better KDF85 catalytic carbon filter specifically made for removing chloramines.

According to the manufacturer it removes 99% of chloramines, chlorine, hydrogen sulfide, and metals like iron, lead, arsenic, aluminum, mercury, and cadmium...But it doesn't remove calcium or magnesium like an RO system does. If you were using RO water my guess is there is plenty of Cal/Mag in the super soil already from the Dolomite lime and Epsom salt.

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What is the first stage, just a sediment filter? My RO system has a 3 stage prefilter, sediment, carbon 5u, carbon 1u. I wonder if running a regular carbon in front of the KDF85 will extend its life. Is there a test for chloramines?

mindphuk said:

What is the first stage, just a sediment filter? My RO system has a 3 stage prefilter, sediment, carbon 5u, carbon 1u. I wonder if running a regular carbon in front of the KDF85 will extend its life. Is there a test for chloramines?

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Yes, the first stage is sediment. There are chlorine and chloramine test kits/strips available at aquarium stores.

Subcool So if i use the SS I dont have to water with nutes at all even when flowering starts? I looked all over for this but can seem to find it. Maybe Im just not looking hard enough or overlooking it. thanks in advanced

That is correct

Kudos to you subcool your awsome thanks

Hi. First of all thanks for all the information. I am a twenty year old and i work with my younger brother. We have had two successful outdoor harvest, but have decided to test the water of indoor gardening. I have read all your stuff in high times as well as the material on this website, which i have only found of late. You have showed me that organics was the only way to go, as well as give me the knowledge to excel in the field.

I am growing in a 6hx4wx2d closet. I have an 18 gallon tote filled with approximately 7 gallons of supersoil. I am using espoma organic potting mix with myco-tone as a base. It is a bit heavy so i lightened myself. I am using 250 watts of cf lights. I am growing 1 super lemon haze to start. I plan on making an aerated compost tea with the leftover ingredients from the super soil. I am just going to put 5 tbls worm castings, 5 tbls bat guano, 1 tbls blood meal, 1/2 tbls bone meal in a sock, in a 5 gallon bucket, and let it aerate.

If you could answer a few questions i would greatly appreciate it.
1. Can you give me any advice on the composition of my compost tea? Should i even use bone meal or blood meal? Do you know if i could use it to water everyday?
2. Can you comment on the nature of super lemon haze? Any things i need to be ready for?
3. Do you think that a 4" carbon filter at 190 cfm will sufficiently control the odor of my plant.

Thanks again for everything. Your knowledge is reaching more people than you can imagine. You are changing the scene of growing. Hopefully, Indiana will legalize soon. If i could someday be half the marijuana gardener you are i would be happy. Keep fighting the good fight!!! I'll post pics of the haze if it works out.

I am growing in a 6hx4wx2d closet. I have an 18 gallon tote filled with approximately 7 gallons of supersoil. I am using espoma organic potting mix with myco-tone as a base. It is a bit heavy so i lightened myself. I am using 250 watts of cf lights. I am growing 1 super lemon haze to start. I plan on making an aerated compost tea with the leftover ingredients from the super soil. I am just going to put 5 tbls worm castings, 5 tbls bat guano, 1 tbls blood meal, 1/2 tbls bone meal in a sock, in a 5 gallon bucket, and let it aerate.

If you could answer a few questions i would greatly appreciate it.
1. Can you give me any advice on the composition of my compost tea? Should i even use bone meal or blood meal? Do you know if i could use it to water everyday?
No clue its not the method I use when I used teas I had inconsistent results
2. Can you comment on the nature of super lemon haze? Any things i need to be ready for? Seriously I thought you said you read my stuff?
Super lemon Haze really? I wouldnt grow that for practice dude.
Read some more brother.

3. Do you think that a 4" carbon filter at 190 cfm will sufficiently control the odor of my plant.
Most likly not my 2x4 room with the 400 uses a 16" fphat filter on 265 and I have problems during bud.

Thanks again for everything. Your knowledge is reaching more people than you can imagine. You are changing the scene of growing. Hopefully, Indiana will legalize soon. If i could someday be half the marijuana gardener you are i would be happy. Keep fighting the good fight!!! I'll post pics of the haze if it works out.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the response. I meant i read all your stuff in high times. At least the last couple years that i have. I just found this site not that long ago. This is the first thread on here that i've read all the way through. I'm reading everyday, as much as i can right now. Sorry if the questions were dumb. I was just more excited to have the chance to ask you a few questions. I tried to find a good grow log on super lemon haze, but could not. I will most likely take your advice and start out the indoor career with an autoflower diesel ryder seed i have. I was contemplating which to try first. I almost knew better than to try the haze first, but i am just so excited to see it grow and experience it. It's an easy choice now. Thanks again for your time. I mean it.