Testing Hans panel: 56watt Cree xp-e/ Lumiled rebel power==== Let's talk efficiency

cannabuilding · Jun 13, 2012

Yes i agree with the above about higher humidity during the first week of growth with seedlings, its very important you dont soak the soil/coco around the stem and try to water around the edge of the pot (to avoid stem rot), try to minimize nutrient/water solution touching the baby stem.

I put seedlings in a humidity dome, then open 1 hole on the 2nd day, the other hole on 3rd day and every day after that i increase the rate at which air can enter the dome, and then finally remove it. I find that slowly bringing them down to the tent/room humidity minimizes shock, i've been using this technique for the past 2 years and its been serving me well. I also use a heating matt if the temps at the root zone is under 75f for the first week, it really does help with growth rates, cold root zone on seedling and clones really slows down root expansion/establishment throughout the substrate.

Maybe placing a cup over the seedling with a couple of holes at the top would most likely benefit growth rate, but this not might be a good idea as they have become comfortable in the current environment they are in and might shock them, if it aint broke dont fix it

Stay safe, peace to all and happy growing.

Peace to all and happy growing.

hyroot · Jun 13, 2012

i just sort skmimmed through this thread. how do you like this light for veg. Im looking for something for my moms, 2x2 area. im trying to produce cuttings every 3 weeks., for $240 for one of these and only being 56 watts compared to others close to the same price but they have 3 times the wattage. how well do you think it holds up to others, pros n cons

from my experince putting seeds in humidity domes usually kills them. humidity is needed for just clones. you do not want light hitting seeds until they have sprouted. humidity does help with root growth on clones but not so much for seeds. it actually slows down seedlings and drives them towards being male.

the reason plants take off faster in smaller pots at first is beacuse when roots grow, they grow downward then back up after they have reached the bottom. so in larger pots theres more distance for the roots to travel

PSUAGRO. · Jun 13, 2012

cannabuilding said:
Yes i agree with the above about higher humidity during the first week of growth with seedlings, its very important you dont soak the soil/coco around the stem and try to water around the edge of the pot (to avoid stem rot), try to minimize nutrient/water solution touching the baby stem.

I put seedlings in a humidity dome, then open 1 hole on the 2nd day, the other hole on 3rd day and every day after that i increase the rate at which air can enter the dome, and then finally remove it. I find that slowly bringing them down to the tent/room humidity minimizes shock, i've been using this technique for the past 2 years and its been serving me well. I also use a heating matt if the temps at the root zone is under 75f for the first week, it really does help with growth rates, cold root zone on seedling and clones really slows down root expansion/establishment throughout the substrate.

Maybe placing a cup over the seedling with a couple of holes at the top would most likely benefit growth rate, but this not might be a good idea as they have become comfortable in the current environment they are in and might shock them, if it aint broke dont fix it

Stay safe, peace to all and happy growing.

Peace to all and happy growing.

Great info Canna..............As long as you find success in your growing techniques than you've dialed in your environment(grow)........don't let anyone tell you otherwise

hyroot said:
i just sort skmimmed through this thread. how do you like this light for veg. Im looking for something for my moms, 2x2 area. im trying to produce cuttings every 3 weeks., for $240 for one of these and only being 56 watts compared to others close to the same price but they have 3 times the wattage. how well do you think it holds up to others, pros n cons

from my experince putting seeds in humidity domes usually kills them. humidity is needed for just clones. you do not want light hitting seeds until they have sprouted. humidity does help with root growth on clones but not so much for seeds. it actually slows down seedlings and drives them towards being male.

the reason plants take off faster in smaller pots at first is beacuse when roots grow, they grow downward then back up after they have reached the bottom. so in larger pots theres more distance for the roots to travel

Hey hyroot........I can't honestly answer your questions about the panels performance at this point...........But for the wattage used, it is surprisingly bright(doesn't mean shit really)........due to the high red ratio, id feel that this panel really isn't designed strictly for veg/clone/mothers IMO...........

Edit: I've had countless debates over RH and its importance(it is/kinda

)..........my opinion has always been focus on root health first the rest will follow..............

hyroot · Jun 14, 2012

cool thanks..... I just like the idea of very low wattage, and it seems like it would cover enough . I was almost thinking of doing 6 cfl's and that would only be $30, but 150 watts! I already have two 6 bulb t5's and a single bulb t5 in veg and three 8 bulb t5's in flower. trying to keep added wattage to minimum.

PetFlora · Jun 14, 2012

hyroot, Watt v watt does not tell the whole story. I supplement my UFO 90 with cfls, including a 4500K 300 watt equivalent cfl. Believe me, they are not close.

Now, I am not advocating leds over T5s, across the board, but if you have a current led (like Hans', or EVO, or RapidLED for kits), mos def led over cfls

PSUAGRO. · Jun 14, 2012

DAY 14.................#1

.............................#2

........<<<Shit!! Ok i'm at day 14, the stunted growth continues, I'm raising the lights to 18 inches and I will recheck my ph readings at the next watering..........Can't wait for the bacteria(yeah I nuked the soil/one of my many mistakes) to naturally lower my ph in the medium at this point..........things are getting dire......#1 is really worrying me............

.........Light at 18 inches(lol I can't stop fucking with this panel!)/growth phase(23w).......................be safe and happy growing........

hyroot · Jun 14, 2012

Seeds grow slower than clones. I have a bubba kush seedling under a single t5 54 watt. Sprouted 2 weeks ago only a couple inches tall. I have a master kush mom thats 10 weeks under a 6 bulb and only 18 inches tall. Some strains grow really slow. Especially pure indicas.

Make a compost tea. Get some aerated water, molasses, seaweed or kelp, ancient forest (compost), epsom salt ( mag - chlorophyll) and brew it up for 15 hours and have some bacteria goin. The girls will take off.. Maybe mix in some dolomite lime in the soil. It naturaly keeps ph at 6. Compost tea is a ph buffer and compost as a top dressing too. Also coco iss a natural ph buffer too.

Pet , I love my t5's. The flora suns and coral waves kick ass. But my moms only take up so much space. So I want as little watts as possible. Id love to do an led flower. Just for the fact they have higher 660 peaks than the flora suns. But of course I would have to rock 3 or 4 panels to get a good yield. Thats quite a bit of $$$$$$$ and Im only junior ballin.

FranJan · Jun 14, 2012

PSUAGRO. said:
Ok i'm at day 14, the stunted growth continues, I'm raising the lights to 18 inches and I will recheck my ph readings at the next watering..........Can't wait for the bacteria(yeah I nuked the soil/one of my many mistakes) to naturally lower my ph in the medium at this point..........things are getting dire......#1 is really worrying me........Light at 18 inches(lol I can't stop fucking with this panel!)/growth phase(23w).......................be safe and happy growing........

Yeah WTF? Weird. You can't dim the blues on that panel can you? You know that I hate blue diodes for the most part and since the XP-E Royals (right?) Hans uses do have a moderate danger warning according to Cree's chart, maybe they're just too much for the young-uns. I don't know it's just a thought. Maybe a transplant? Give em some Thrive? It's your show of course, but it's so strange that they're like that after 2 weeks I just can't help playing junior detective. Be Safe Sir!

PSUAGRO. · Jun 14, 2012

hyroot said:
Seeds grow slower than clones. I have a bubba kush seedling under a single t5 54 watt. Sprouted 2 weeks ago only a couple inches tall. I have a master kush mom thats 10 weeks under a 6 bulb and only 18 inches tall. Some strains grow really slow. Especially pure indicas.

Make a compost tea. Get some aerated water, molasses, seaweed or kelp, ancient forest (compost), epsom salt ( mag - chlorophyll) and brew it up for 15 hours and have some bacteria goin. The girls will take off.. Maybe mix in some dolomite lime in the soil. It naturaly keeps ph at 6. Compost tea is a ph buffer and compost as a top dressing too. Also coco iss a natural ph buffer too.

Pet , I love my t5's. The flora suns and coral waves kick ass. But my moms only take up so much space. So I want as little watts as possible. Id love to do an led flower. Just for the fact they have higher 660 peaks than the flora suns. But of course I would have to rock 3 or 4 panels to get a good yield. Thats quite a bit of $$$$$$$ and Im only junior ballin.

Thanks for the info......From seed, yeah that may be so, but I have autos(i know/ my fault) the girls will dictate their final yield, not me........so this is a crucial stage, and it's not looking good..........Yeah I have lime granules(mg/cal) already mixed in with organic trf's(high urea) not adding any more N ATM...........

FranJan said:
Yeah WTF? Weird. You can't dim the blues on that panel can you? You know that I hate blue diodes for the most part and since the XP-E Royals (right?) Hans uses do have a moderate danger warning according to Cree's chart, maybe they're just too much for the young-uns. I don't know it's just a thought. Maybe a transplant? Give em some Thrive? It's your show of course, but it's so strange that they're like that after 2 weeks I just can't help playing junior detective. Be Safe Sir!

Can't dim the blue's/ can raise the panel though/ without question i'm behind at this point.......Looking at the leaf development, I don't see fast enlargement of the leaves, their staying very narrow, Indicating a specific spectral oversaturation ??light toxicity IDK..........This is all new too me, so I raised the panel/will see........

Rasser · Jun 14, 2012

PSUAGRO. said:
Hey hyroot........I can't honestly answer your questions about the panels performance at this point...........But for the wattage used, it is surprisingly bright(doesn't mean shit really)........due to the high red ratio, id feel that this panel really isn't designed strictly for veg/clone/mothers IMO...

I thought about how people could measure the output from there panels, and a lumen apps came to mind, if people got the same phone and apps then a rough comparing can be done.
http://www.google.dk/search?q=lumen+meter+apps&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:da:official&client=firefox-a
iPhone apps that looks promising: http://www.420magazine.com/forums/grow-lighting/152856-iphone-app-read-lumens.html#post1367159

I don't think there is anything wrong with the panel, but the seeds, or the dirt was to wet when the seeds
where first put in, as was the case with my latest sprouting.

Out of six seeds, 2 came up fast and has normal growth - one of them was put under the 'micro-veg'
and is behaving as expected in that intensity, 3 was yellow when they came up and has slowed growth,
from the lack of o2 I presume, the smallest one is now in the infirmary instead of the healthy big one.

Usually when I veg I do it in CFL, and the water in the wet start-soil is evaporating quickly
but under the LED it's to slow it seams and the sprout is suffocating.

The big one looks like a bad ass Klingon warbird and the small one a tiny Spitfire. :-)

And how the size of the seeds fits with the output so far.

I would not be concerned about the panel or anything other than getting new seeds
and maybe be careful of how wet the start-dirt is. Don't know if you sprouts was yellow colored.

Gastanker · Jun 14, 2012

I looked into light meter apps a while ago and they all seem to be pretty bad. This is from the one linked above in their own words:

"Please, note, it is impossible to measure illuminance (Lux) using a camera, do not trust anyone who says otherwise. A special device must be used for this type of reading. We, therefore, remove any reference to 'lux' and 'foot-candle' from our application to avoid confusion. If you used this application to measure your illuminance levels in the past, most likely you were miles away from the real number, and you must repeat your measurements using a specialised device. Don't trust anyone, an iPhone cannot replace a lux meter for industrial applications.

This application, however, is a brilliant reflected light meter for photography."

The Dawg · Jun 14, 2012

Brother PSUAGRO Their Auto's And Some Auto's Only Get 16-24 inches Tall.Put The Panel Back To 15 Your Node Spacing looks Great.Heres A Pic Of Runt Around The 16th Day.So Take A Bong Hit And Chill.If They Still look That Way At Day 30 Then you Can Freak Out Peace and Step Back Away From The Led Panel bongsmilie

Rasser · Jun 14, 2012

Gastanker said:
I looked into light meter apps a while ago and they all seem to be pretty bad. This is from the one linked above in their own words:

"Please, note, it is impossible to measure illuminance (Lux) using a camera, do not trust anyone who says otherwise. A special device must be used for this type of reading. We, therefore, remove any reference to 'lux' and 'foot-candle' from our application to avoid confusion. If you used this application to measure your illuminance levels in the past, most likely you were miles away from the real number, and you must repeat your measurements using a specialised device. Don't trust anyone, an iPhone cannot replace a lux meter for industrial applications. This application, however, is a brilliant reflected light meter for photography."

It's irrelevant what name we give the number so long as it is the same hardware and software.
of course you can not use it as a real calibrated lux meter and use the numbers to compare with that.

But there are many other possibility's for it's use - light distribution in the grow room, output of new bulbs vs. old
LED cold start vs running. Basically the same as I have been using my PAR meter for. I'm on a corp. android, so I can't test'em.

PSUAGRO. · Jun 14, 2012

[/Quote]
I don't think there is anything wrong with the panel, but the seeds, or the dirt was to wet when the seeds
where first put in, as was the case with my latest sprouting.
and maybe be careful of how wet the start-dirt is. Don't know if you sprouts was yellow colored.[/QUOTE]

I Don't think their is anything wrong with the panel also........This is all grower error/inexperience with it.........#1 may have been damaged early/too long in a wet medium/ see the tips on it/ but was corrected immediately and I've followed good watering practices since..........Im also inexperienced with cocco

.........thanks

Gastanker said:
I looked into light meter apps a while ago and they all seem to be pretty bad. This is from the one linked above in their own words:

"Please, note, it is impossible to measure illuminance (Lux) using a camera, do not trust anyone who says otherwise. A special device must be used for this type of reading. We, therefore, remove any reference to 'lux' and 'foot-candle' from our application to avoid confusion. If you used this application to measure your illuminance levels in the past, most likely you were miles away from the real number, and you must repeat your measurements using a specialised device. Don't trust anyone, an iPhone cannot replace a lux meter for industrial applications.

This application, however, is a brilliant reflected light meter for photography."

yeah I've tried some of these apps before...............their junk/

The Dawg said:
Brother PSUAGRO Their Auto's And Some Auto's Only Get 16-24 inches Tall.Put The Panel Back To 15 Your Node Spacing looks Great.Heres A Pic Of Runt Around The 16th Day.So Take A Bong Hit And Chill.If They Still look That Way At Day 30 Then you Can Freak Out Peace and Step Back Away From The Led Panel

View attachment 2212797 View attachment 2212799 View attachment 2212798

Mine are normal for auto's at two weeks???? well I "trust in dawg's skills" and your the only one in here that's done auto's from seed ............Will lower to 15 inches then............appreciate it............and yes I'm gonna go have a smoke/good idea.............thanks......

Gastanker · Jun 14, 2012

Rasser said:
It's irrelevant what name we give the number so long as it is the same hardware and software.
of course you can not use it as a real calibrated lux meter and use the numbers to compare with that.

But there are many other possibility's for it's use - light distribution in the grow room, output of new bulbs vs. old
LED cold start vs running. Basically the same as I have been using my PAR meter for. I'm on a corp. android, so I can't test'em.

I think the problem is that the camera only cares about particular spots of focus. Like you say the numbers don't need to be accurate as long as they correlate but the chances of having them correlating are very unlikely as you can get ten very very different reading by simply focusing the camera at different portions of the same leaf. I tried measuring the inside of an empty white box with a similar app and I got drastically different reading each time.

Gastanker · Jun 14, 2012

Psua, have you considered popping a few more beans? In my experience if a seedling has a hard time at the very beginning, regardless of the reason, it takes quite a while for it to recover. You might have solved whatever problem it might have been but they are still going to grow slow as fuck for a bit. And I can't imagine the slow growth is the natural dwarfing of the auto - from what I understand and have seen, they grow just like normal plants for the first several weeks.

Rasser · Jun 14, 2012

Gastanker said:
I think the problem is that the camera only cares about particular spots of focus. Like you say the numbers don't need to be accurate as long as they correlate but the chances of having them correlating are very unlikely as you can get ten very very different reading by simply focusing the camera at different portions of the same leaf. I tried measuring the inside of an empty white box with a similar app and I got drastically different reading each time.

In that case I would put something to diffuse the light in front of the camera, something very standard like a white plastic bag
or what else that can be picked up on far away. 80g/m2 A4 paper maybe :-)

PSUAGRO. · Jun 14, 2012

Gastanker said:
Psua, have you considered popping a few more beans? In my experience if a seedling has a hard time at the very beginning, regardless of the reason, it takes quite a while for it to recover. You might have solved whatever problem it might have been but they are still going to grow slow as fuck for a bit. And I can't imagine the slow growth is the natural dwarfing of the auto - from what I understand and have seen, they grow just like normal plants for the first several weeks.

Well all I had was three seeds/used them all and just killed #3 due to her late arrival and no space under the panel's coverage(rip #3

)/I have no more seeds to use.......I don't think the growth is right either, but Dawg knows his autos(look at his grows w them/impressive)......so maybe ill get something out of them by october..ha......

Rasser said:
In that case I would put something to diffuse the light in front of the camera, something very standard like a white plastic bag
or what else that can be picked up on far away. 80g/m2 A4 paper maybe

Diffusing the light will not change the fact that it's a cellphone camera running an app pretending to be a lux meter

Gastanker · Jun 14, 2012

Rasser said:
In that case I would put something to diffuse the light in front of the camera, something very standard like a white plastic bag
or what else that can be picked up on far away. 80g/m2 A4 paper maybe

Cameras are really really picky... Here's a for instance - This is a plain white note card. I took pictures from the same distance but at differing angles with it flat and then with a slight slight bend. The camera's measurements are way different even though I focused on the same spot each time. The first are outside under direct sunlight which should be very very even. I can't imagine that app doing more than just taking simple camera data outs like the shutter speed and throwing it through an equation.

Rasser · Jun 14, 2012

Looking at this picture there is some burning at the tip of the leafs - I saw the same on some of my 3 weeks old plants and moved the light higher.
Lack of light ruled out. x

The only other thing I note is the soil composition, are you used to grow in that mix?
for the last time I saw stunned growth was when somebody had mixed in to much inactive stuff.

I'm still on supermarket seed soil and fertilizer my self and it seams to work fine so I've not looked
into soil-mix and fertilizer at all yet, so I have zero knowledge on the subject.

Testing Hans panel: 56watt Cree xp-e/ Lumiled rebel power==== Let's talk efficiency

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