The age of cloning

go go kid said:

from clone or seed? they look like seed but could be wrong

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The little babies and the 2 to the left of them are from seeds. Everything else in that room is from a clone.

Cannabis clones can change over time. They don't "burn out" as some seem to think.

Epigenetics

Severed Tongue said:

Horticultural science has proven (not opinion, fact) that vegative propagation (aka cloning) produces a plant with an exact copy of the original DNA, and there is no degradation of any of its genetics, or traits. It is actually the same plant, not a "clone" like so many think from watching sci-fi movies.

So weather its keeping a mother plant for 30 years and taking cuttings, or taking a cutting, from a cutting, from cutting (once they stablize) the plant isn't going to change, and is the only possible way to preserve that plant, as seeds will have traits of the parents, but will have a new DNA and genetic makeup.

What does happen though, is people have different grow setups, lights, feeding, environmental factors, in which has a great deal of effect in how the plant grows and finishes, no matter how the mother was.

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WE HAVE A WINNER! WHAT THIS GUY SAID!!!!

Severed Tongue said:

Horticultural science has proven (not opinion, fact) that vegative propagation (aka cloning) produces a plant with an exact copy of the original DNA, and there is no degradation of any of its genetics, or traits. It is actually the same plant, not a "clone" like so many think from watching sci-fi movies.

So weather its keeping a mother plant for 30 years and taking cuttings, or taking a cutting, from a cutting, from cutting (once they stablize) the plant isn't going to change, and is the only possible way to preserve that plant, as seeds will have traits of the parents, but will have a new DNA and genetic makeup.

What does happen though, is people have different grow setups, lights, feeding, environmental factors, in which has a great deal of effect in how the plant grows and finishes, no matter how the mother was.

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Actually, new science is showing there can be genetic differences depending on where the cuttings were taken. Synchangel on IG was just discussing this article recently https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34806848/, pretty interesting stuff.

Tangerine_ said:

You can clone from a clone from a clone. The genetics may tire over several years but its relatively easy to reinvigorate old cuts...especially if you keep them healthy with low pest/pathogen pressure.

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How would you do this? I’ve had a person claim that sunlight has some magic cure to reinvigorate cuts. I personally can’t seem to keep mothers longer than a few years, but I abuse them.

OG-KGP said:

Agreed, OG cant be beat in terms of quality. Where it suffers is structure and yield. But that taste... One of my favorite smokes of all time.

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OG

Herb & Suds said:

I know a guy in the Milwaukee area
Who holds dozens of old school cuts
Had it not been for him I may have never believed how long you can keep a plant
shout out brother

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I new a guy in Milwaukee area that had all the good genetics back in the 90s... I wonder if we know the same guy?

I have a question so someone told me that if I grow my clone for to long it will start to seed is that right

I had a mom in a 1 gallon for a full year which is way, WAY too long. She’d gotten woody, bugs, and burnt from nutes. Look at this shit she’s beyond done.



I took the best cuttings I could and to my surprise one rooted fast. Babied it to strong and took cuts from that. Those cuttings did fantastic and are being flowered. Right now. Took a super strong cutting from that for a new mom and she’s beautiful.


Little purple on there but this cut does that with just 67 degrees at night so it’s hard for me to avoid completely. She’s happy though. The trick is keeping them green and growing fast. If you get into trouble though you can reinvigorate with some new cuts and effort.

I tend to agree with the thought that evolving over millennia, it’d take millennia for you to have an effect on the DNA. Pretty sure I was listening to an interview with Chimera who said that on this exact topic and it’s sound logic to me. Also other interviews with people and 30 year old cuts that are ‘better now.’ This is apparently not terribly uncommon.

One day I hope to pass on my stable so I’m trying to keep um green. Happy hunting all.

All that said I didn’t mentioned dudding because I honestly don’t know what’s up with that. Has anyone had that happen to a plant that they started from seed? I know it happens to famous clone only cuts. I’ve only recently learned of it. Maybe there is some limit to how fast or how much you can cut a cut. For real my condolences to anyone who’s had that happen. Shit is heartbreaking when you put so much work in.

Sam sneak said:

OK I have a question and want to hear others opinions on this so how long can u do u think clone a plant then put that mother to bud then use one of its cuttings as the next mother if for example you don't want to keep using the same mother plant I was taught to use the 2nd clone generation because after awhile it loses bud size then potency well that's what I was told but what u guys reckon

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I grew a killer freak pheno of a Dutch Passion White Widow 10 years ago and gave a clone to my friend the Klone King and he's kept it alive for 10 years by clone of clone. Still as good as the original.
It's like no other WW's I've grown even several more batches from DP and a few other breeders.
I was finally successful making a bunch seeds from the last batch of clones I got from the KK which he said was 30th gen of the original.
I have two I just put into flower to test if the potency carried over to the seed version.

Hash Hound said:

I grew a killer freak pheno of a Dutch Passion White Widow 10 years ago and gave a clone to my friend the Klone King and he's kept it alive for 10 years by clone of clone. Still as good as the original.
It's like no other WW's I've grown even several more batches from DP and a few other breeders.
I was finally successful making a bunch seeds from the last batch of clones I got from the KK which he said was 30th gen of the original.
I have two I just put into flower to test if the potency carried over to the seed version.

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That's the stuff I love mate awesome

It's a very finicky plant, hard nugs with few hairs, I'm surprised I got so many seeds this time.
I've been trying to make seeds of her for years with very little success. Never more than a few viable seeds,
When the KK gave me the 30th gen clones I used CS and only got a few mature seeds but was able to collect a bunch of pollen. I grew one of those seeds and used the pollen to back cross her, again only a few seeds. I grew one out and used STS/CS on her and got a few hundred very nice dark mature seeds. Very small like the original too. I've used that 30th gen pollen and made a few nice crosses but only a few seeds of each strain.

you can't tell but the buds are loaded with seeds and notice how few hairs. The clones are normally very very stretchy with long node spacing but the seeds I've grown so far have all been on the average side.
th

Paradise Seeds Sensi Star original, ~ 14 years old. Originally grown from seed.
A clone of a clone of a clone ad infinitum. Cloned literally thousands of times over 14 year period.
Still going strong.




And here's a mere youngster, a 4 yr old Royal Gorilla I grew from seed which has been cloned again and again and again.

Enjoy.

Interesting conversation around maintenance of genetics through cloning. I have had some cuts that I have run for many years with no degradation. Good culture, and always taking cuts from healthy moms are key. "Genetic Drift" doesn't mean what people think it means, and is not relevant to this conversation. Somaclonal variation is a real thing, a given phenotype can shift even if the underlying genetics are unchanged due to genes being upregulated or downregulated (epigenetic change) This is more prevalent in microprogation, particularly callus culture, due to the radical shift from undifferentiated to specialized cells.