Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Not to sure what to do but i would defo like to see it
The Chinese Quantum Board Knock Off Builds
- Thread starter zypheruk
- Start date
Krypto Kid
Member
Another domestic source for meanwell drivers is Jameco Electronics. Usually a couple of dollars cheaper, and fast shipping. The only complaint would be some of the not so popular drivers they charge a tariff for. If it's in stock, they don't charge a tariff.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
It wasn't my board, so not sure if they did or not.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Personally I would add some red diodes and go with the 3500 SH bin, but since you'll be running only white diodes, I think I'd stick with the 3k SG for more red in the spectrum.
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Thanks for the recommendations. A lot of good information to parse and each item leads to lots more googling and questioning. I don't think these lights will ever get ordered.
The XLG drivers are for sure cheaper and more versatile. What I don't get is what's the catch? Why are light makers still going using the HLG line if they're more expensive?
Are you suggesting you can run two drivers in parallel to double the output to the circuit? So instead of 3 lights on one and 3 on the other there'd be 6 connected to both and if one gave out then they'd just all be at half power until it's replaced?
Okay, the 240 seems to be the winner and I'll avoid running a single strip on a driver.
The thing I'm still hung up on is the supplemental lighting (UV, IR, 660nm, and 730nm). They all seem to have merit when used appropriately. Having it all on one board without additional drivers is so convenient, but they all seem to be situational, UV especially. It seems like you'd only run that a small portion of the light on time and/or at the end of flowering. IR seems to point to more growth and taller plants, which might be counterproductive here. And if I cherry pick supplemental strips I have more flexibility as to when they're used, but I have no idea how many of whatever diode I'd need be sq ft. Should I just scrap all that extra stuff for now and just get 6x 4000K boards and 6x 3000K boards and some mean well drivers? The additional lighting I'm sure is beneficial when used appropriately, but just a good white light has gotta be the bulk of it, right? I mean, quantitatively, what could I gain with the supplemental light when used perfectly, 25% more THC? 25% better yield? I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass, but as it stands I'm yielding nothing while I think and think and think.
DrKiz
Well-Known Member
I have two Meijiu Majo’s, both 3000k.Thanks for the recommendations. A lot of good information to parse and each item leads to lots more googling and questioning. I don't think these lights will ever get ordered.
The XLG drivers are for sure cheaper and more versatile. What I don't get is what's the catch? Why are light makers still going using the HLG line if they're more expensive?
Are you suggesting you can run two drivers in parallel to double the output to the circuit? So instead of 3 lights on one and 3 on the other there'd be 6 connected to both and if one gave out then they'd just all be at half power until it's replaced?
Okay, the 240 seems to be the winner and I'll avoid running a single strip on a driver.
The thing I'm still hung up on is the supplemental lighting (UV, IR, 660nm, and 730nm). They all seem to have merit when used appropriately. Having it all on one board without additional drivers is so convenient, but they all seem to be situational, UV especially. It seems like you'd only run that a small portion of the light on time and/or at the end of flowering. IR seems to point to more growth and taller plants, which might be counterproductive here. And if I cherry pick supplemental strips I have more flexibility as to when they're used, but I have no idea how many of whatever diode I'd need be sq ft. Should I just scrap all that extra stuff for now and just get 6x 4000K boards and 6x 3000K boards and some mean well drivers? The additional lighting I'm sure is beneficial when used appropriately, but just a good white light has gotta be the bulk of it, right? I mean, quantitatively, what could I gain with the supplemental light when used perfectly, 25% more THC? 25% better yield? I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass, but as it stands I'm yielding nothing while I think and think and think.
One has 660nm
The other had 660nm, 380nm and 730nm.
Both run side by side.
I’m on my forth run with them.
I can’t see a difference.
Personally, I’d get 3000/3500k with 660nm and call it good. Supplement with the rest on the side.
You can get 380nm UV lights off Amazon.
They’re called black lights, high wattage and cheap.
Just got a MJ-650 as well with 3500k and 660nm. I’m curious if I’ll see much diff between the 3000k and 3500k.
NukaKola
Well-Known Member
I'd go with all 3000K or 3500K, and if you want to, supplement red/UV/IR separately so you're not having wasted wattage while you aren't using them. The White diodes also tend to have a longer lifespan so it makes sense to have the red/UV/IR separate so you can easily replace them. Would suck to have the red/UV/IR burn out on your board before the whites which would also reduce the overall wattage/output of the board.Thanks for the recommendations. A lot of good information to parse and each item leads to lots more googling and questioning. I don't think these lights will ever get ordered.
The XLG drivers are for sure cheaper and more versatile. What I don't get is what's the catch? Why are light makers still going using the HLG line if they're more expensive?
Are you suggesting you can run two drivers in parallel to double the output to the circuit? So instead of 3 lights on one and 3 on the other there'd be 6 connected to both and if one gave out then they'd just all be at half power until it's replaced?
Okay, the 240 seems to be the winner and I'll avoid running a single strip on a driver.
The thing I'm still hung up on is the supplemental lighting (UV, IR, 660nm, and 730nm). They all seem to have merit when used appropriately. Having it all on one board without additional drivers is so convenient, but they all seem to be situational, UV especially. It seems like you'd only run that a small portion of the light on time and/or at the end of flowering. IR seems to point to more growth and taller plants, which might be counterproductive here. And if I cherry pick supplemental strips I have more flexibility as to when they're used, but I have no idea how many of whatever diode I'd need be sq ft. Should I just scrap all that extra stuff for now and just get 6x 4000K boards and 6x 3000K boards and some mean well drivers? The additional lighting I'm sure is beneficial when used appropriately, but just a good white light has gotta be the bulk of it, right? I mean, quantitatively, what could I gain with the supplemental light when used perfectly, 25% more THC? 25% better yield? I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass, but as it stands I'm yielding nothing while I think and think and think.
clement.beand
Member
the circuit is shorted by the beads of the solder paste, when it is too hot.
I think I'm convinced the supplemental lights on the same board aren't the best way to go. I'm just gonna get mainly whites and some supplemental boards so I can dim and time them separately. It seems like I don't need a ton. HLG's R-Spec boards have 1/18th of the diodes 660nm and the rest white. The UV lights from Kingbrite aren't the right wavelength for UVB, which is what supposedly has the plant produce extra trichomes to protect from that radiation. HLG's B Spec boards for veg have 1/18th of the diodes 470nm blue lights, but that doesn't seem to be as discussed. I think I might just get a couple 660strips boards and 730nm strips.
I'm digressing though, I wanted to ask why 3500k? I have a bloom section and a veg section. I was gonna do 4000k in the veg and 3000k in the bloom. I thought 3500k was okay good for both, but not quite as good as 4000k for veg or 3000k for flower.
NukaKola
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good plan!
If you have separate veg/flower rooms then 3000k might be better for your flower rooms, however you mentioned supplementing reds so that’s why I recommended 3500K. 3000K will get slightly better yields but encourages more stretching and 3500K will help with THC production and a bit tighter node spacing.
Either way you can’t go wrong. If you are running multiple lights and supplementing reds I would go for a mixture of 3000K & 3500K.
Thanks, I get what you meant now. I thought you were saying 3500k had more red, which is the opposite of what my understanding was. You're saying the 3500k might be better if I'm supplementing with dedicated reds.
@Rocket Soul I think I'm finally near the end of this analysis paralysis. I'm gonna scrap UV at this time. I read through most of the "far red thread", which you appeared in a bunch. It seems like the most magical supplemental wavelength is the 730nm, which when used after lights out for just 15 minutes or so can put the plants to "sleep" faster allowing 13.5:10.5 (lights on:lights off) cycles if desired and harvest times a week or more sooner. It seems only a watt or so of power is needed for this effect too. So it seems two of those little $17, 10 LED 730 strips from Kingbrite should be plenty. Really one would be okay, I'm just not sure how to cover a 4x2 with it with all the main lights in the way. I wanted to ask if my understanding of this is largely correct, or at least correct enough to proceed.
My one last quandry is regarding 660nm. KB makes a strip which is mostly whites and just 660nm crees. They also have 660nm supplemental boards. However, it seems like there's already some 660nm light in the samsung white diodes in both the 3000k and 3500k varieties. It looks like you were looking into 660nm supplementation. Is supplementing with dedicated diodes worth it? Is it only worth it when they're run with 730nm or do they cancel out? I apologize for honing in on you. It seems you've already gone down this path and I was hoping to glean some insight from your experience.
And if I could through one last question into the mix: two tiers - one for flowering one for veg, six strips per. I can get them in 3000k, 3500k, and 4000k. Would you do six 4000k and six 3000k or would you mix in some 3500k on one or both tiers?
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Ive spent a lot of time looking at different ways to improve the grow i work for. But what works for us might not be the right thing for everyone.
As for far reds: RN we are mainly suing 90cri diodes so we arent adding any far red during the day cycle, 90cri has a fair bit already. As for EOD far red: havent tried but its been fairly documented as positive, either up your yield or make your cycle faster. But id probably prefer recommending:
1: Use separate diodes rather than strips, you want even coverage or you may see some uneven stretching. Id recommend @growlights Australia s Buddy system: it has very wide and even spread and is made up from a long atring of individual chips. You can also get a very efficient 660 photo red from them. It does cost a bit more than KB bit they are sealed, which helps keep them working well in a humid environment, and dont need any sinking.
2: 15 mins is almost allways too much, this advice only exist from analogue timers who couldnt do less than 15 mins. Theres a formula in the far red thread, basicly ots 3000-4000ppf total, which usually ends up as around 2-3 mins but depends on the total wattage of far red and efficiency.
On reds: i dont have a good answer on 660 (or 630) yet. Our grow with lights testing this is about to flipp to flower today, but its a bit away from where i am. But from what ive seen around the interwebs 660 should help with making the flower response stronger, faster budset and a bit more tricome. Some say they prefer adding 630; it has the increased growth of biomass but doesnt mess with the flowering hormones. Im not too sure, in about 3 months ill have at least some results to draw from. Our current line up is 660/630 half and half versus 660 pc reds (includes a lot of far red and 680-700nm) versus 630nm. Also running one side with extra 850nm IR.
Uv/blues/4000k: the thing some people miss out on is the relationship between blues, violets (420-430nm) and uv (365 and 285nm) and transpiration. Blues tend to open the stomata and help the plant with drinking more, which makes the grow altogether easier. If you looked around people trying leds for the first time youre bound to see people struggling with leaves bleaching or just poor plant stance, or just plants that wont thrive. Most of the time this has to do with the transpiration issues, a plant drinking without any infrared heating just has a hard time to keep up with the photosyntesis and especially in vegg or under low light or with co2 added. Although you can fix this with extra hot and humid climate its easier to fix it by adding some wide blue/violet/uv. But be carefull with 280nm as it is dangerous: for you and in large doses the plant. So really, if i was to make my favourite light as easy as possible: 2700k 90cri as base white and a wide blue channel containing both 420 and 365. The extra blue seems to make the grow easier, less finicky.
On another point: i just had the chance to try our latest cultivar, Glue Trap, in both indoor and out door version: the outdoor stone blows the indoor out of the water. Full facemelt. So there is definitely something in going beyond the normal led spectrum
As always, thank you for such an insightful and thorough response and thanks for pointing out the "Buddies" (https://growlightsaustralia.com/product/buddies/ if anyone is curious). I think a couple of those with the right placement would be perfect. 15 minutes being a holdover form analog timers makes perfect sense. Fortunately now we've got digital ones that you can set in minute increments for just a few bucks more. I was wondering if the 730nm diodes on the buddies were dimmable, but if I understand ppf (and I almost certainly don't) - would running the 730nm light (or two strings of them) at normal output for say 2 minutes be very roughly equivalent to running them at half power for 4 minutes in terms of flower initiating? Like filling a bucket with better flow of water in less time. I'm sure there are variables (namely the limits of absorption for the plant).
I'm very interested in what you'll learn from your tests. I'm getting a sense that including the 660nm in these boards is a relatively new thing and not many people have experimented with them in a way to get quantifiable results. I think for my own use it certainly merits more research, but I think I could skip it at this point and do okay.
Just when I think I can write off the blues you make me reevaluate them entirely.
So there's a link between this band of light and transpiration and a lack of it will cause problems, especially in cooler and drier environments. What do you consider extra hot and humid? More than the recommended ranges?One of the difficulties I'm having with the kingbrite strips is even if I knew the right ratio of wavelengths needed (I don't). I don't know the CRI of the diodes used or I could check them against the samsung datasheets and I don't know if whatever lesser bin they use has the same or similar spectrum distribution or if they're even using what they say they are. I guess at the end of the day people who worry about this stuff less than me are growing great stuff under them anyway.
I've been holding off on ordering from kingbrite this whole time because if I was going to place an order I wanted to make sure I got everything I needed from them in one order. None of their blue light strip offerings are in the nm ranges you mentioned, so they're out. They don't have a 630nm and I'm still on the fence about 660nm so I can probably skip that too. And the flexibility of the "Buddies" seems like the perfect solution to the 730nm. So there aren't any "booster" strips I need from them.
They don't have a 2700k offering, just 3000k, 3500k, and 4000k. I'd like six for veg and six for flower. What quantity of each would you recommend? Or should I scrap Kingbrite altogether?
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evonietzsche
Active Member
Hi to everyone,im actually reading the whole post,at least the last 100 pages. Thanks to you i realized how crap are Nalite and Ecospeed befire buying them.Thanks again.
So im deciding wich setup should be better, i have an area to cover of 2meter x 2meter grow and flower.
I think im going with Meiju 1000w.
Do you think its ok?What other options or setups u recomend?
THANKS
So im deciding wich setup should be better, i have an area to cover of 2meter x 2meter grow and flower.
I think im going with Meiju 1000w.
Do you think its ok?What other options or setups u recomend?
THANKS
2 meters x 2 meters is like 42 square feet. 1000w over that area is like 24W per square foot. Recommended for flowering is 30w per square foot for led and that's on the low end. You'll probably be better off with several smaller lights. Better coverage too
evonietzsche
Active Member
First of all,thabks for reply.But i dont understsnt at all you math....not really.
I mean your math says that 500w led in 1x1 meter (3x3) is at low end....and i thing thats not correct...500w for a 3x3 space should more than enough...
So what u recommend for my 6x6 space?
I mean your math says that 500w led in 1x1 meter (3x3) is at low end....and i thing thats not correct...500w for a 3x3 space should more than enough...
So what u recommend for my 6x6 space?
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
More than actual wattage look at the spread of the light, a 1000w light optimized for a 4x4 isnt going to do the trick. For a 6x6 your le probably better off with multiple fixtures.
evonietzsche
Active Member
Thanks again,but.....wow!!!Please explain, 4x4 with 1000w fixture is not making the trick??! 1000w with 9bars of 232pc of 301b are not enough?!?!please explain me how not.
Im on a 16cob cxb3070 fixture runing them at 0.7a (thanks to Groumau5) build myself,it covered an area of 5x5 and almost pulling 1.5 g/w easyly bro.....
How in the hell the 1000w fixture could not make the trick?
Please give me some info that im missing.
Or so i can understand,what the setup/fixture you would use in 6x6?
Im on a 16cob cxb3070 fixture runing them at 0.7a (thanks to Groumau5) build myself,it covered an area of 5x5 and almost pulling 1.5 g/w easyly bro.....
How in the hell the 1000w fixture could not make the trick?
Please give me some info that im missing.
Or so i can understand,what the setup/fixture you would use in 6x6?
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
The form factor also matters, a 1000w fixture which has 3x3 or similar dimensions, will not flower a 5x5 or larger area really well since you have to hang it higher. Getting wattage right is one part of the story, spread is another.
For a 6x6? I allways diy so it depends. Id seriously look into 4x 3x3' fixtures. Or maybe a bunch of 240 kits a little bit dimmed; they seem to have a natural 3x2 spread but thats a bit too much power for a 3x2, better at around 200w.
Generally a light which can be assembled in sections will do better than one big light, especially for shipping as bigg dimensions fetch an extra markup on shipping.
But yeah, of course you can flower a 4x4 with those strip lights its just that you might be wasting some light or have to dim it a bit.