Unconventional Organics

iHearAll said:

OK so a post ago was the direction for a fish amino acid extraction. I just threw this together a second ago with fish skins, molasses, EMe, water, and a yogurt container sealed with Al foil placed under my shed in the shade for the next 10-14 days. I'll use it as a foliar spray 1nce a week later.

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That's fucken awesome, i imagine it smells like a cathouse outside a marine base tho lmao!

grimdro said:

it only takes years to rot bones seafood rots fast and is full of nuts for us ndplnts tho we prefer um nor rotten lol

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Hey I know your post is a bit old but anyway. Broil or just char your bones and then mix them 1:1 by weight with your cheepest vinegar and let it sit for a week or two. It will produce carbon dioxide and phosphorus carbonate. You can then dilute it 1:100 with water. Use it as a foliar spray or a phosphorus supplement. And as a writer's note, do the charring or broiling outside and the process is rather quick over an open fire and a bit slow in a small Black and Decker oven on broil.

VTMi'kmaq said:

That's fucken awesome, i imagine it smells like a cathouse outside a marine base tho lmao!

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Conveniently it does not smell around the container. I'll filter it in a few days. And that part will be another story. And every time i use it for that matter.

Each year I use sealable barrels, about 3 months before the frost clears I mix my mixture and seal it in the barrels. A nose plug is required when opened but it seems to do great for a full season with only rain water. Does anyone else employ this sort of method?

Cracken said:

Each year I use sealable barrels, about 3 months before the frost clears I mix my mixture and seal it in the barrels. A nose plug is required when opened but it seems to do great for a full season with only rain water. Does anyone else employ this sort of method?

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I'm experimenting with this sorta thing ATM. I mixed some beneficial microbes in and out the ferts. It's got white molds growing!

irieie said:

How much should I piss in my plants. Should I piss directly into the pots or should I pee into a cup and then mix it with water. I am thinking about the second route because I have trouble stopping midstream so measuring word be tough. What

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I pee in 1 gallon jug and fill with water works amazingly

1:100 ? I think I saw that as a safe ratio on yahoo question/answers

Tablespoon per qrt (to start)

I like to make my own fertilizer via fermentation. Fruit, veggies, cannabis leaves and stems, fish, lake weeds, bat shit, comfrey, dandelions, bananas, papaya, pumpkins, ect..
Best part is... it's 100% recycled organic and veganic, it's almost free, it completely water soluble and bio avaiable, non-burning.

^^ If you add fish, then its no longer vegan.. And I dont know about ferments, I more or less thought aerobic process was more efficient than a ferment.

GrowerGoneWild said:

^^ If you add fish, then its no longer vegan.. And I dont know about ferments, I more or less thought aerobic process was more efficient than a ferment.

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That is correct, fish and bat shit will be in the organic side. Veganic is strictly plant matter and natural earth elements.

The aerobic microorganisms are my choice in the AACT brewer, however they must have air to do their job and without it they will die, remain in spore/cyst form. They consume alot of organic matter and render it available however that service of theirs comes at a price, they actually lower the "would have been" total nutrient value.

With fermentation you rely on lactic bacteria, phototropic bacteria and yeasts. The prefered pH is 3-4 and at that end of the scale the enviroment is to harsh for any pathogenic anerob. Fermenting actually preserves more of the original nutrient values. This is the same principle as bokashi composting. The lechate that is found at the bottom of any bokashi composter is used at 1 tsp/gallon. Same as my fermented fertilizer.

Strangely enough this post is named "unconventional organics".
For those of you who wish to learn more about fermentation I encourage you to visit
WWW UNCONVENTIONALFARMER.COM

Interesting, I guess I could see the ferments being a digested material for mineralizing bacteria in the regular soil PH range for cannabis. I would expect the lactic bacteria to be overtaken in a soil culture. In a way "pickling" (fermenting)seems not to break down matter like aerobic activity.. And the smell. I've tried some non aerated compost teas.. I dont think I'll be trying that again. But dont mind me.. just thinking out loud.

I'm more or less trying to see if your technique makes sense.

Well you're method is unconventional.

GrowerGoneWild said:

Interesting, I guess I could see the ferments being a digested material for mineralizing bacteria in the regular soil PH range for cannabis. I would expect the lactic bacteria to be overtaken in a soil culture. In a way "pickling" (fermenting)seems not to break down matter like aerobic activity.. And the smell. I've tried some non aerated compost teas.. I dont think I'll be trying that again. But dont mind me.. just thinking out loud.

I'm more or less trying to see if your technique makes sense.

Well you're method is unconventional.

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Aerobic soil microbes absolutely love fermented material. It basically pre-chewed for them. The liquid extracts are avaiable to the plant but still encourage microbes to flourish.
Have you heard of Earth Juice catalyst? It's a ferment. Goes about $23 bucks per liter bottle. Why pay for fertilizer when u can make it.

Non aerated tea is poison and smells like death. I tried it once also and I never will again, but that's how I came across fermenting with lacto bacillus and yeasts. Lacto bacillus is a flaculative anerobe, it's very benificial to plants as is the yeast and phototropic bacteria. Organic amendments or suppliments don't encourage high counts of these microbes because they don't proliferate in an aerobic enviroment or the pH range of good soil.

But once added to the soil they now add to the high diversity that is the "microbial loop".

Grandpa GreenJeans said:

Aerobic soil microbes absolutely love fermented material. It basically pre-chewed for them. The liquid extracts are avaiable to the plant but still encourage microbes to flourish.
Have you heard of Earth Juice catalyst? It's a ferment. Goes about $23 bucks per liter bottle. Why pay for fertilizer when u can make it.

Non aerated tea is poison and smells like death. I tried it once also and I never will again, but that's how I came across fermenting with lacto bacillus and yeasts. Lacto bacillus is a flaculative anerobe, it's very benificial to plants as is the yeast and phototropic bacteria. Organic amendments or suppliments don't encourage high counts of these microbes because they don't proliferate in an aerobic enviroment or the pH range of good soil.

But once added to the soil they now add to the high diversity that is the "microbial loop".

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Yeah, reference please or evidence on ferments being nitrifying bacteria friendly. It would seem protien or carbohydrates varying from simple glucose to polyscacchrides seems to enhance microbe growth. And with a fast growing annual I only want certian cultures in my mix.

No comment on earth juice, MSDS lists "sea kelp, sugarcane molasses, oatbran, yeast" as primary ingredients.

I could see yeast being a potential food source itself for nitrifying bacteria as a food source like "bakers yeast" however it seems to be an odd way of approching it. Dead yeast is a food source for live yeast, so I assume microbes could use it.

I just thought it seems odd to use lacto or yeast to bump up microbe activity because they seem to supress microbe activity as in the case of fermented alcohol or pickling process .. I could see yeast also "limiting" excess simple carbohydrates but not to big a fan of the idea of it competing with mineralizing bacteria especially with exudates in the rhizosphere.

If anything I'm referencing Jeff Lowenfells and Dr Inghams work on microbes.. the majority of the AG products I've seen seem to focus more on aerobic bacteria that mineralize vs anerobes...

If it works for you.. cool.. I'm just trying to think out loud how this ferment style composting can be used.

Soo I just come into this and I'm sorry for being a noob,
How does do the yeast and what's about aero thing. How do you do it?!! Pm please incase I piss people off here with my dumb questions. I just flushed my used soil with cal mang and re used it. What fo you guys add to enrich it. I'm in England so please be as clear as you can if possible please, it sounds interesting I read somewhere about someones grany used gone off milk to inrich her soil for next season<- don't know if that's even a word lol.. It's just would like yo hace knowledge in this type of vocabulary please any help would be appreciated..
Thanks in advance

Grandpa GreenJeans said:

Aerobic soil microbes absolutely love fermented material. It basically pre-chewed for them. The liquid extracts are avaiable to the plant but still encourage microbes to flourish.
Have you heard of Earth Juice catalyst? It's a ferment. Goes about $23 bucks per liter bottle. Why pay for fertilizer when u can make it.

Non aerated tea is poison and smells like death. I tried it once also and I never will again, but that's how I came across fermenting with lacto bacillus and yeasts. Lacto bacillus is a flaculative anerobe, it's very benificial to plants as is the yeast and phototropic bacteria. Organic amendments or suppliments don't encourage high counts of these microbes because they don't proliferate in an aerobic enviroment or the pH range of good soil.

But once added to the soil they now add to the high diversity that is the "microbial loop".

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i wonder if plants could handle diluted kombucha?

Ha i made 60gallons of bokashi for 50 cents. just gotta wait two weeks to start using it. Obvious bokashi substrates are coffee, bran or grain, manuer, sawdust, leaf mould, copra meal, beer brewing waste (my favorite), etc. Used spent coffee.


Kombucha.
Dilute it 1:100 (tsp in a liter)
it shouldnt be much different than a homemade fermented liquid. That's the ratio I usually use for most ferments. Its genetics that'll determine if it gets burned. Oh yea, add equal parts molasses to make sure your kombucha microbes have some food haha.

Grandpa Jean check my fermented kitchen garbage grow out. Its 7 autos and a photo in 15 gallons of FKG (solids in bokashi). I spray them with fermented fruit extracts, bone extracts, EMe, and em5 (bio pest repellent )

wow man thankyou! I am having a hard time retaining all the information ive gleaned over the last 15 years from all sorts of sources. Really is nice to be able to visit this thread and just read it for SOME SUPERIOR inspiration. Thinking about using these methods on my future classic genetics grows for the next few years and journal a few here. Just started using the mh 400 plantmaxx bulb and gentleman i must say i'm fully aroused lol in a non sexual way that's still good! I'd also like to state that i learned REAL QUICK LIKE that a 600 hps and a 400 mh in my 3 x 3 x 7 tent wont be feaseable until i upgrade to a 6 inch whisper inline to make it easier to disipate the heat, almost killed my whole tent with bleaching and WAYYY too close lights. I musta been mantra'd in my head tanning salon lol!

GrowerGoneWild said:

Yeah, reference please or evidence on ferments being nitrifying bacteria friendly. It would seem protien or carbohydrates varying from simple glucose to polyscacchrides seems to enhance microbe growth. And with a fast growing annual I only want certian cultures in my mix.

No comment on earth juice, MSDS lists "sea kelp, sugarcane molasses, oatbran, yeast" as primary ingredients.

I could see yeast being a potential food source itself for nitrifying bacteria as a food source like "bakers yeast" however it seems to be an odd way of approching it. Dead yeast is a food source for live yeast, so I assume microbes could use it.

I just thought it seems odd to use lacto or yeast to bump up microbe activity because they seem to supress microbe activity as in the case of fermented alcohol or pickling process .. I could see yeast also "limiting" excess simple carbohydrates but not to big a fan of the idea of it competing with mineralizing bacteria especially with exudates in the rhizosphere.

If anything I'm referencing Jeff Lowenfells and Dr Inghams work on microbes.. the majority of the AG products I've seen seem to focus more on aerobic bacteria that mineralize vs anerobes...

If it works for you.. cool.. I'm just trying to think out loud how this ferment style composting can be used.

Click to expand...

The brewing process is to isolate a bacteria culture for its desirable wastes. Alcohol. If you've brewed, you remember the yeast cake? This is a huge mass of bacteria cultured from a little gram packet of yeast. Lactobaccilus does it with yogurt. Em-1 probiotics doesn't need to be grown on a sterile substrate and will still take over if its air tight. Its not inhibiting any growth except pathogenic growth. The fermentation of solids turns out to actually preserve the integrity of material and not cause a rotting sludge to be created. The sprays help prevent illness in you and the plant while giving the plant some foliar food as well. Same goes for soil drench.