War

Roger A. Shrubber said:
i'm not trying to be an asshole, but you keep saying things like "we'll give them Liberal Democracy."...they have their own system of leadership, maybe they don't want to be America, jr. . maybe all they need is really free and really fair elections, and tougher laws about corruption, and to enforce those laws...
we've all criticized the government for empire building, for using the c.i.a. as a tool for deposing unfriendly regimes, for letting big business, especially petroleum companies call the shots...
this isn't an opportunity for us to rebuild russia in our image, whatever they do after all of this, will have to be their decision.
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We won't rebuild them in our image, they should do that on their own. The pattern of liberal democracy in the west and world has been set and most parliamentary systems work better than the American one. They are corrupt to one degree or another because they are free countries and with freedom the government expects citizens to do the right thing and jails those who don't, most of the time. It means fair and free democratic elections under a constitution and the rule of law and independent courts. They are not perfect, but they tend to improve over time and have the means to do so, the rest is up to the people.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
That's probably why Vlad has to go and anybody who knows him and thinks that way must be concerned with their life and that of their family. This is a classic proxy war we all know the rules and tactical nukes used on Ukrainian territory would be the start of something ugly and Vlad might die over it at his own people's hands. NATO ain't gonna be dictated to by a nuked up mafia Don, not with Zelinskiy's example of courage. Vlad can't nuke his way out of this and if he tries he will have trouble at home or the whole country might be turned to glass and vapor, along with a few of us. If his nuclear forces work like his conventional forces, half his missiles will blow up in their silos or go off course to who knows where. However nobody wants to find that out since a little goes a long way.
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in a proxy war, you have an instigator and a stand in...who is the instigator? russia instigated this on it's own initiative, i don't think they were egged on by china, and certainly not by the middle east. in order for it to be a proxy war, russia or the Ukraine would have to be the "proxy" for another nation...
 
Too many people in this thread with Made in the USA blinkers on. Wanting to sound like they have the answers and explanations for everything. What answers do you really have? All of your claims need to be judged against your country's own track record. Unfortunately, your track record is so mired in blood and grime it's unreadable. Leaders of the free world my arse. Get off your soapboxes and get your governments to keep their grubby paws out of everybody else's business. The single most malevolent force on this planet at the moment is the United States of America.
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
in a proxy war, you have an instigator and a stand in...who is the instigator? russia instigated this on it's own initiative, i don't think they were egged on by china, and certainly not by the middle east. in order for it to be a proxy war, russia or the Ukraine would have to be the "proxy" for another nation...
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If you believe the US started this war then it is a proxy war.
 
Crumpetlicker said:
Too many people in this thread with Made in the USA blinkers on. Wanting to sound like they have the answers and explanations for everything. What answers do you really have? All of your claims need to be judged against your country's own track record. Unfortunately, your track record is so mired in blood and grime it's unreadable. Leaders of the free world my arse. Get off your soapboxes and get your governments to keep their grubby paws out of everybody else's business. The single most malevolent force on this planet at the moment is the United States of America.
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We fall under the category “ better the devil you know”.
 
Kerowacked said:
Silos? Russia has subs twenty miles off Montauk.
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and we have subs 20 miles off of murmansk..the difference is our subs work a lot better than theirs, there are at least two nato allied subs following every one one of their subs, ready to sink them at a moments notice. i don't pretend that that is perfect protection, if even one gets through, it would be PFB, but it'll be worse for them. if he launches missiles at the EU, he better get a lot of them off on the first salvo, because there won't be a second one. every major city, every military base in russia is covered by a nato missile base. they get one shot at whatever they do, they better make it fucking good
 
Crumpetlicker said:
Too many people in this thread with Made in the USA blinkers on. Wanting to sound like they have the answers and explanations for everything. What answers do you really have? All of your claims need to be judged against your country's own track record. Unfortunately, your track record is so mired in blood and grime it's unreadable. Leaders of the free world my arse. Get off your soapboxes and get your governments to keep their grubby paws out of everybody else's business. The single most malevolent force on this planet at the moment is the United States of America.
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that's rich, do you know any more good ones? any about a priest, a rabbi, and putin going into a bar?
why don't you get off your soapbox? china has its clandestine operations, as does russia, every nato member, ever non nato member...go ahead and paint with that broad brush, just make sure it's hitting you in the face, too, comrade hypocrite
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
in a proxy war, you have an instigator and a stand in...who is the instigator? russia instigated this on it's own initiative, i don't think they were egged on by china, and certainly not by the middle east. in order for it to be a proxy war, russia or the Ukraine would have to be the "proxy" for another nation...
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It is a proxy war, the Ukrainians are proxies for NATO, like the Vietcong were proxies of the Soviets, using Soviet weapons delivered on Soviet ships to kill Americans in Vietnam. The same thing happened in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion and where the Stinger claimed fame. It happened in Korea too, only it was the UN, the Soviets were up against then, not just the Americans. The cold war was a lot hotter then too.
 
Crumpetlicker said:
The sensible thing to do now is to provide Putin with a way out that does not cause affront to his masculinity or position. The Western media and leaders are just making things worse. I thought everybody knows you don't poke the bear.

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A lot of people are going to be hurt by this war including Vlad. No matter what happens he will be remembered for his blunders and destroying the motherland, it must be soul destroying, if he had one and it must also have broken his heart, provided he has one of those too. Fuck his feelings, his feeling got us into this shit.
 
DIY-HP-LED said:
It is a proxy war, the Ukrainians are proxies for NATO, like the Vietcong were proxies of the Soviets, using Soviet weapons delivered on Soviet ships to kill Americans in Vietnam. The same thing happened in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion and where the Stinger claimed fame. It happened in Korea too, only it was the UN, the Soviets were up against then, not just the Americans. The cold war was a lot hotter then too.
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We were mainly fighting China in the Korean War. The USSR did behind the scenes stuff.

en.wikipedia.org

Soviet Union in the Korean War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Two GOP senators share photos from Zoom call with Zelensky despite requests not to
Republican Sens. Marco Rubio (Fla.) and Steve Daines (Mont.) shared photos from U.S lawmakers' virtual meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky after they were reportedly asked not to do so due to security concerns.

Both senators shared photos of Zelensky speaking to Congress on Twitter with captions indicating that they were on the call.

Multiple aides told NBC News lawmakers present were directed by Ukrainian officials not to share pictures of the president.

Rubio’s office denounced the criticism of the senator's tweet, saying there were no security issues with the post.

“There were over 160 members of Congress on a widely reported Zoom call. There was no identifying information of any kind. Anybody pretending this tweet is a security concern is a partisan seeking clicks,” a spokesperson for Rubio said.

During the meeting, Zelensky said that his country was in need of assistance to protect its airspace and asked the U.S. to establish a no-fly zone. He also requested more planes and for the U.S. to stop buying Russian oil.

“President Zelenskyy made a desperate plea for Eastern European countries to provide Russian-made planes to Ukraine. These planes are very much needed. And I will do all I can to help the administration to facilitate their transfer,” Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said in a statement following the call.
thehill.com

Two GOP senators share photos from Zoom call with Zelensky despite requests not to

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this report misidentified senators who shared the images during the call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. This version has been updated.Republican…
thehill.com thehill.com
 
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