Would you pay more in taxes to make college/university FREE?

Would you pay more in taxes to make college/university FREE?

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I was taught the entire time in school it was "go to college!", meanwhile when I graduated high school, I found myself in that bracket of people whose parents were (technically) too wealthy to justify financial aid, even though I lived in a household that lived paycheck to paycheck, and even though I worked a 30+ hour/week job myself and still couldn't afford part time school along with other necessary expenses at the time. Fuck me, right!
Click to expand...
 Dude you didn't even try, I am sorry you just didn't. I have a GED and went to college for free.
 
Grandpapy said:
With our present government, education will remain a backseat issue until a profit can be made on a quarterly investments. 4 years is just too long to have to wait to see a return.
The US does not invest in it's self without getting a return, that can diverted into private overseas accounts or into pork.

Australia has free university or did 30 years ago, What do they have now? Smart population, low crime (street, corp, and public office) low unemployment, and is one the fastest growing, and most popular place live and raise a family.
Click to expand...

It's a mixed bag at best, and how can anything be attributed to college, criminally, except white collar crime?

[h=2]Crime stats: Australia vs United States[/h] [TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 150px, align: right"]
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [h=3]
thumb.php
Australian Crime stats[/h] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] [h=3]
thumb.php
American Crime stats[/h] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl, width: 150px"] Assault victims [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 2.4% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 1.2% [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 11th.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl, width: 150px"] Believe in police efficiency
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 76%
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 89% [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 4th. [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 1st. 17% more than Australia [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl, width: 150px"] Bribe payers index [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 8.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 6.2 [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Ranked 2nd. 31% more than United States Ranked 9th

[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl, width: 150px"]Rape victims [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 1% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 0.4% [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 13th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl, width: 150px"] Software piracy rate [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 28% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 20% [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 95th. 40% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 107th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl, width: 150px"] Suicide rates in ages 15-24 [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 14.6 per 100,000 people [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 13.7 per 100,000 people [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 6th. 7% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 7th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl, width: 150px"] Suicide rates in ages 25-34 [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 18.7 per 100,000 people [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 15.3 per 100,000 people [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 7th. 22% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 10th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl, width: 150px"] Total crime victims [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 30.1% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 21.1% [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 1st. 43% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 15th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

[TD="align: left"]
[/TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
i see hundreds get paid to enrole in school. enrole, don't go to class till the very last of each semester to drop class, see it everyday. pay more taxes, hell no, stop giving my tax money away to worthless scumbags that abuse the system!
 
deprave said:
Dude you didn't even try, I am sorry you just didn't. I have a GED and went to college for free.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my dad borrowed from the Air Force Aid Society and I worked my way, researched and applied for a bunch of grants I had no idea about. And mainly I took advantage of everything that was offered, including an Aid councilor to tell me what was offered.
 
Pad, sorry to say, we are already paying more tax for the present education system, which doesn't ready pupils for life in the US.
It's not the parents that want tax cuts but Corps., that feel just their job opportunities justify not having to provide any of the Infrastructure to get parents to the job site.

Ten year score:
http://Corporate profits are curren...unt raised by the tax just a few decades ago.

Those with money don't like to spend it..... "Our" country suffers in many ways, and at present the congress is "tanking" any chance of a foreign Corp moving here to set up shop, damaging "our" credit rating, lowering the standard of life. jmo.
 
Doer said:
It's a mixed bag at best, and how can anything be attributed to college, criminally, except white collar crime?

Crime stats: Australia vs United States

[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"] [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
thumb.php
Australian Crime stats
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
thumb.php
American Crime stats
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Assault victims [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 2.4% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 1.2% [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 11th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Believe in police efficiency [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 76% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 89% [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 4th. [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 1st. 17% more than Australia [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Bribe payers index [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 8.1 [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 6.2 [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Ranked 2nd. 31% more than United States Ranked 9th

[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"]Rape victims [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 1% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 0.4% [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 13th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Software piracy rate [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 28% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 20% [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 95th. 40% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 107th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Suicide rates in ages 15-24 [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 14.6 per 100,000 people [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 13.7 per 100,000 people [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 6th. 7% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 7th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Suicide rates in ages 25-34 [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 18.7 per 100,000 people [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 15.3 per 100,000 people [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 7th. 22% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 10th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Total crime victims [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 30.1% [/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 21.1% [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 1st. 43% more than United States [/TD]
[TD] Ranked 15th. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

[TD="align: left"] [/TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
"Think Education is expensive? Try Ignorance"


The chart is nice, but you mislead with some of the info:


Bribes;[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: hidden hrow4, bgcolor: #EBFCFC"]
[TD="colspan: 4"]DEFINITION: The index ranks the leading exporting countries in terms of the degree to which their companies are perceived to be paying bribes. The scale is from 0 to 10, where 10 represents negligible bribery and 0 a very high level of bribery. Based on a survey of nearly 800 business executives conducted in 14 emerging-market countries.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: hidden hrow4, bgcolor: #EBFCFC"]
[TD="colspan: 4"]SOURCE: UN International Crime Victims' Survey[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

You prove my point with the belief of Police efficiency.
 
One thing doesn't prove anything. I've never seen anyone try to relate free college to less crime, is all.

Crime rate in Oz is a mixed bag. They are still sorting out if the gun confiscations just shifted crime to home invasion. There is more rape, more assault, more bribery, more suicide. There is less teen handgun suicide but the overall rate is higher.

So, let's have some stats on college and crime in Aus., if you please, to back the claim. It would about per capita, that finish college regardless of price. And to me college education just seems to shift it to white collar crime.
 
Beardo..

When I was a young boy and sitting at the dinner table eating a bowl of cereal , I read the back of the cereal box and told my grampa that if I sent in this coupon I could get a free toy. The next thing I know my grampa grabbed my shoulders and started shaking me until the spoon flew out of my hand and said "nothings free"...I will never forget that moment, it has stuck with me for life...He was right nothing is free...
 
Doer said:
One thing doesn't prove anything. I've never seen anyone try to relate free college to less crime, is all.

Crime rate in Oz is a mixed bag. They are still sorting out if the gun confiscations just shifted crime to home invasion. There is more rape, more assault, more bribery, more suicide. There is less teen handgun suicide but the overall rate is higher.

So, let's have some stats on college and crime in Aus., if you please, to back the claim. It would about per capita, that finish college regardless of price. And to me college education just seems to shift it to white collar crime.
Click to expand...

Auto Saved content my ass.




Damn, oh well try once more.. Sorry I should of inserted "JMO"

But, Most crimes are committed by 16-25 year olds, http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/additional-ucr-publications/age_race_arrest93-01.pdf when my kids were studying, they were off the streets.

I understand what you are saying about white collar, but if only spoiled rich kids go to collage, then only spoiled rich kids will make it in Washington. imo.
 
FlyLikeAnEagle said:
Lets see, is it better to have the country filled with doctors, lawyers, scientists, teachers, or is it better to have millions of people like you running around. Switzerland or Mexico, Germany or Nigeria, take your pick.
Click to expand...

I think you were one of my former students in the 5th grade severe to moderate class I used to teach about five years ago. Is that you George? Does your mom know you're on this site?
 
Harrekin said:
Thats because your colleges at the minute cost too much.

How can you possibly argue against educating all kids?


What if Einsteins parents hadve been useless dicks and not had him educated?
Click to expand...



I am not arguing against it, I was merely stating that it is a tough sale. Also, the type of education is important, a nation full of lawyers and doctors sounds great until you need your vehicle repaired. If you look at the other questions I posed it should be apparent that I am trying to further the discussion by bringing up associated issues. I work in Higher Ed. and the simple truth it that college is not for everyone. This is where the importance of vocational training comes in. Should education be available to all? Yes. Should the government be the one to run it? No, see also, the K-12 public education system. The government is already fucking up Higher Ed. by instituting more performance based funding legislation and standardizing general education curriculum. I won't be surprised if in a decade there is standardized testing in Higher Ed. based on the wonders (sarcasm) it has done for K-12. College Freshman can not even think critically or for themselves. The state of education in America is pathetic and before we even talk about making Higher Ed. available to all (which it already is if you can perform well in K-12) lets talk about reforming the K-12 system.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
For anyone with a high school diploma or equivalent

Why/why not?
Click to expand...

Inappropriate poll, this is NOT a simple binary answer.

If I were GOD I have a partial solution....

Government
1. Should Fund more critical advanced research which provides provisions for hiring research staff (ie lots of cheap grad students). ie. Instead of giving direct subsidy money to various green energies, fund the research for all energy of the future and pay student slave to do the work.

2. Instead of loans, Funding for any US citizen student that can prove their are worth putting through school on the condition of payback service to the governments. ie A med student gets funded for years of education, that student serves in gov sponsored medical care for an equivalent time for a living allowance (slave wages) after education is complete.

3. Corporations need to step up and educate people for what they want, stop relying on everybody else and whining about not enough H1 B Visas. Not just some feel good employee education classes, but actually searching, recruiting and engaging in long term education of young american citizens. Think if corps recruited the way the NFL teams recruit ... of course govt needs to encourage corporations to do this.

lots lots more BUT not as simple as a question of free college education
 
Totoe said:
I am not arguing against it, I was merely stating that it is a tough sale. Also, the type of education is important, a nation full of lawyers and doctors sounds great until you need your vehicle repaired. If you look at the other questions I posed it should be apparent that I am trying to further the discussion by bringing up associated issues. I work in Higher Ed. and the simple truth it that college is not for everyone. This is where the importance of vocational training comes in. Should education be available to all? Yes. Should the government be the one to run it? No, see also, the K-12 public education system. The government is already fucking up Higher Ed. by instituting more performance based funding legislation and standardizing general education curriculum. I won't be surprised if in a decade there is standardized testing in Higher Ed. based on the wonders (sarcasm) it has done for K-12. College Freshman can not even think critically or for themselves. The state of education in America is pathetic and before we even talk about making Higher Ed. available to all (which it already is if you can perform well in K-12) lets talk about reforming the K-12 system.
Click to expand...

To add to that. His parents never put him through school. Hr taught himself and had to go back to highschool in europe himself to attend the polytechnic school in switzerland. And in fact he hated school and never trusted his teachers teachings as true.
 
kpmarine said:
The fact that he didn't initially apply to the university for a teaching diploma in math and physics is irrelevant; as that is what he subsequently graduated with. The fact that his teacher would not sign off on a letter of recommendation is not, by itself, an indication of his education; it could just as easily be dislike. He also had the uncommon advantage of getting an educated mentor. "Most
remarkable was Max Talmud, a poor Jewish medical student from Poland, "for
whom the Jewish community had obtained free meals with the Einstein family."
5
Talmud came on Thursday nights for about six years, and "invested his whole
person in examining everything that engaged [Albert's] interest." Talmud had
Albert read and discuss many books with him. These included a series of twenty
popular science books that convinced Albert "a lot in the Bible stories could not be
true," and a textbook of plane geometry that launched Albert on avid self-study of
mathematics, years ahead of the school curriculum. Talmud even had Albert read
Kant; as a result Einstein began preaching to his schoolmates about Kant, with
"forcefulness"." From:http://www.chem.harvard.edu/herschbach/Einstein_Student.pdf. Einstein had a tremendous amount of help, compared to the average Joe. The man was a remarkable mind; it was a mind that was by no means developed alone, though. To argue that his genius was uncultivated and progressed entirely of it's own accord seems incorrect, in light of the available resources I have seen.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue he was never schooled, but honestly, his thinking was beyond the scope of everyone at that time. It is extremely hard to learn math/physics from others when your level of comprehension and perception already vastly exceeds theirs.

The man was never liked in school, and his colleagues and professors thought that he was unintelligent. He skipped classes many times out of sheer boredom. Also, I don't know why Harvard would have any Einstein shit... He never attended Harvard, nor did he get ANY of his education in the US. He lived in Germany for much of his life...

Upon inspection...:
"Einstein's own commentaries and correspondence tell us much about his student years and a host of outstanding historians of science and biographers have added many insightful books and essays. In this paper I merely sample morsels from this ample smorgasbord."

The dude sliced and diced together a paper from other individual's work
Furthermore:

age[11]
1890
E's intense "religious paradise", lasting about a year.
Reading science, including Darwin, disenchants E
with religion; he becomes a "fanatic freethinker"

age[12]
1891
E enthralled with "holy little geometry book" (from
Talmud), finds Euclid's axiomatic-deductive method
a trustworthy "road to paradise." Over next four years
learns analytic geometry and calculus outside school

Just read the timeline on page 3... It even says he educated himself outside of school.
 
Doer said:
It's a mixed bag at best, and how can anything be attributed to college, criminally, except white collar crime?

Crime stats: Australia vs United States

[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
thumb.php
Australian Crime stats

[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]
thumb.php
American Crime stats

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Assault victims
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 2.4%
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 1.2%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Ranked 4th. 100% more than United States
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 11th.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Believe in police efficiency
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 76%
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 89%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Ranked 4th.
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 1st. 17% more than Australia
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Bribe payers index
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 8.1
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 6.2
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Ranked 2nd. 31% more than United States Ranked 9th

[TABLE="class: body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"]Rape victims
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 1%
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 0.4%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Ranked 5th. 150% more than United States
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 13th.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Software piracy rate
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 28%
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 20%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Ranked 95th. 40% more than United States
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 107th.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Suicide rates in ages 15-24
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 14.6 per 100,000 people
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 13.7 per 100,000 people
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Ranked 6th. 7% more than United States
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 7th.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Suicide rates in ages 25-34
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 18.7 per 100,000 people
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 15.3 per 100,000 people
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Ranked 7th. 22% more than United States
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 10th.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: graphHl"] Total crime victims
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 30.1%
[/TD]
[TD="class: graphHl"] 21.1%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD] Ranked 1st. 43% more than United States
[/TD]
[TD] Ranked 15th.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]

[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

How many times do I have to tell you YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT?

You've tried to push this bullshit before and I corrected you... Now STFU\

Added;

echelon1k1 said:
You got some figures on that coz I call BULLSHIT!

Maybe check your facts, US & UK per capita numbers are higher than Australia (for reported cases), in all violent crimes including rape.

In 2010, UN data for rape statistics shows 27.3% per 100,000 or 84,767 in the US & 8.1% per 100,00 or 1,828 in AUS.

Any other retarded assumptions you'd like me to clarify?
Click to expand...
 
Doer said:
One thing doesn't prove anything. I've never seen anyone try to relate free college to less crime, is all.

Crime rate in Oz is a mixed bag. They are still sorting out if the gun confiscations just shifted crime to home invasion. There is more rape, more assault, more bribery, more suicide. There is less teen handgun suicide but the overall rate is higher.

So, let's have some stats on college and crime in Aus., if you please, to back the claim. It would about per capita, that finish college regardless of price. And to me college education just seems to shift it to white collar crime.
Click to expand...

Wrong again Shithead
 
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