Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Is it better to MAKE people do things under threat of force or to leave them alone?
Would you pay more in taxes to make college/university FREE?
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Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Don't they already make us do things under the threat of force?
Why is it OK if it's things like the military and war effort but not healthcare or education? What's the difference?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I'm not a fan of the military or war. I do think self defense is a natural right, but I don't confuse conflicts started by geo-political entities with acts of self defense.
Some people might claim that the benefit derived from forcing people to participate in things outweighs the evil means of getting them to "participate". I don't make that claim. "Necessary evil" is still evil.
Because when we did pay higher taxes we did have free college and university in New York you fucking short lived dolt.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Sadly those trades arnt as useful as they used to be.
Construction worldwide is FUCKED except Canada and Australia.
We'd too many dolts here did trades, now they live in Canada/Australia
fb360
Active Member
Governments don't make doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc... people do.
Einstein actually educated himself...Look it up, he was failing/doing bad in classes in highschool and beginning of college. He then decided to become a mastermind. The education system had nothing to do with his brilliance
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
You get the idea, but it doesn't take the mind of Einstein to figure out that a chance at a sub $200,000 education for all is a good choice for society.
Id imagine a certain level of debt forgiveness would come with it for the people already being rode for their education.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
I have to agree that certain skilled trades (like construction) aren't as valuable as they used to be. However, machinists, mechanics, pipefitters of various sorts, electricians, and truckers are still valuable skilled trades. Caterpillar offered $60k starting, plus they'd buy your toolbox, if you went through an actual trade school that they trusted. I still see craigslist ads for skilled machinists, plumbers, and drivers quite often. Skilled trades haven't lost their usefulness, we still need those people, they have just lost government endorsement. For example: The current GI bill will not cover your tuition and pay your rent if you go to a "Trade school"; they new GI bill will only pay out if you go to a school that offers a degree. Say I wanted to be part of the vital industry of semi-truck repair. The new GI bill won't cover it, in spite of the fact that it's pretty much a guaranteed job position if you place in the upper tier of your class. Hauling trucks aren't going anywhere soon, and they're vital to commerce, yet the gov. won't pay for me to pursue an education in something useful like that. However, If I wanted to work towards a degree in journalism, I'd get a full ride my first four school years; how useful is a BA in journalism over the valuable ability to troubleshoot and repair heavy equipment? How many internal combustion engines are there vs. journalism outlets in need of reporters? Where would we be without electricians, HVAC techs, nurses, truckers, welders, dog trainers, pilots, animators, mechanics, electronic engineers, CSI's, chefs, and game designers? All of these are skilled trades, and not all of them are available courses at a conventional college or university.Sadly those trades arnt as useful as they used to be.
Construction worldwide is FUCKED except Canada and Australia.
We'd too many dolts here did trades, now they live in Canada/Australia
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Einstein received a teaching diploma in math and physics from a university in Switzerland well before he rose to prominence. The man was by no means entirely self educated. Also, while he failed in other classes, I was also under the impression that he excelled at mathematics (Read: The field most applicable to his prominent theories.). It would be impressive if Einstein failed math, and became a prominent physicist. However, when you fail your composition class and become a mathematical prodigy, it's not as impressive, especially when you score well in your math classes. For the love of Pete, the man applied to a university in Zurich for a teaching course in math and physics at the age of 16, and got accepted.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I was taught the entire time in school it was "go to college!", meanwhile when I graduated high school, I found myself in that bracket of people whose parents were (technically) too wealthy to justify financial aid, even though I lived in a household that lived paycheck to paycheck, and even though I worked a 30+ hour/week job myself and still couldn't afford part time school along with other necessary expenses at the time. Fuck me, right!
fb360
Active Member
Actually he was denied the first time applying to zurich and it wasn't for teaching. He couldn't get a job after receiving his degree because his professors would not sign a letter of recommendation. Rather, he grew his own genius working at a patent office. First and foremost he was primarily self-educated, and beyond that, he was at a front where people could not teach him... His thinking SET the precedent... Before Einsteins theory of relativity, physics was nowhere near where it is now.
Oh, and also Einstein did not invent the nuke... He merely signed a recognition paper acknowledging that the concept would work, because he had already made a name for himself, for whoever mentioned that earlier
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
The fact that he didn't initially apply to the university for a teaching diploma in math and physics is irrelevant; as that is what he subsequently graduated with. The fact that his teacher would not sign off on a letter of recommendation is not, by itself, an indication of his education; it could just as easily be dislike. He also had the uncommon advantage of getting an educated mentor. "Most
remarkable was Max Talmud, a poor Jewish medical student from Poland, "for
whom the Jewish community had obtained free meals with the Einstein family."
5
Talmud came on Thursday nights for about six years, and "invested his whole
person in examining everything that engaged [Albert's] interest." Talmud had
Albert read and discuss many books with him. These included a series of twenty
popular science books that convinced Albert "a lot in the Bible stories could not be
true," and a textbook of plane geometry that launched Albert on avid self-study of
mathematics, years ahead of the school curriculum. Talmud even had Albert read
Kant; as a result Einstein began preaching to his schoolmates about Kant, with
"forcefulness"." From:http://www.chem.harvard.edu/herschbach/Einstein_Student.pdf. Einstein had a tremendous amount of help, compared to the average Joe. The man was a remarkable mind; it was a mind that was by no means developed alone, though. To argue that his genius was uncultivated and progressed entirely of it's own accord seems incorrect, in light of the available resources I have seen.
Canna Connoiseur
Active Member
Are you crazy? Trades aren't as useful anymore? It will always be useful and will always be an industry that continues throughout the expanses of time. In fact I am having the best year of construction in my entire life.Sadly those trades arnt as useful as they used to be.
Construction worldwide is FUCKED except Canada and Australia.
We'd too many dolts here did trades, now they live in Canada/Australia
kelly4
Well-Known Member
We already have a country full of those. Free schooling will not raise the need for more of these positions.
Grandpapy
Well-Known Member
With our present government, education will remain a backseat issue until a profit can be made on a quarterly investments. 4 years is just too long to have to wait to see a return.
The US does not invest in it's self without getting a return, that can diverted into private overseas accounts or into pork.
Australia has free university or did 30 years ago, What do they have now? Smart population, low crime (street, corp, and public office) low unemployment, and is one the fastest growing, and most popular place live and raise a family.
The US does not invest in it's self without getting a return, that can diverted into private overseas accounts or into pork.
Australia has free university or did 30 years ago, What do they have now? Smart population, low crime (street, corp, and public office) low unemployment, and is one the fastest growing, and most popular place live and raise a family.
silasraven
Well-Known Member
why pay more in taxes to for something that isnt what it should be.college is a bunch of paper work and parroting. why watch a gangster in the white house flush it down the drain like every other ghetto freak? get rid of the baboon and find someone to fix it.
kelly4
Well-Known Member
I bet UB's ears are now ringing. LOL!
londonfog
Well-Known Member
Dude you really could not find any monies to go to college ...What kind of grades did you make? What local scholarships or national grants did you apply for. What schools did you apply for..sorry just not understanding your plight. Not saying its easy, but its always a way..Some of us even had to join the service to get it done.
deprave
New Member
one-starred
because of everything everyone already wrote but to add to that:
Government involved in education means total education failure. Government gives about 2 shits about teaching people properly, only that they are indoctrinated. They have no motivation whatsoever to give education people properly because smart people is the last thing they want, they want obidient workers.
because of everything everyone already wrote but to add to that:
Government involved in education means total education failure. Government gives about 2 shits about teaching people properly, only that they are indoctrinated. They have no motivation whatsoever to give education people properly because smart people is the last thing they want, they want obidient workers.
DonPepe
Active Member
I'm still working to pay mine off, why would i want to pay more of the little money i still get to keep to let someone get my education for free? So now you want me to pay for mine and someone else's... college is what Americans like to call an investment, you spend lots of $ and tons of time (4+ years, that you can not work full time and fall further and further in debt) with the hopes it will pay off down the road somewhere.
some people choose to invest, some people choose to live in the moment. what will happen to all the student debt that we currently have and that we have paid and are paying?
some people choose to invest, some people choose to live in the moment. what will happen to all the student debt that we currently have and that we have paid and are paying?
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