Entitlement

[ginwilly]

and when the plebs demand more from the dole than the productive members of the society can provide, entitlements cause the collapse of the society, and the institution of the authoritarian state.

thats what turned rome from a republic into an empire, and empires fall, every single time.

the Cloward Piven Strategy

Two Columbia profs reaching prominence in the late 70's. Do we know anyone who went there during that time, who in his own words seeked out professors of this ilk? Does anything we are doing look like we aren't following that plan?

 

[Dr Kynes]

In doing that, a lot would have to change, though. For one, the emphasis on "growth" has to be removed from the economic lexicon. That, in essence, would scrap the GDP metric as it stands. What shall we replace it with?
It would be a good idea to flesh out some framework of measurement before shifting the power balance so greatly.


Yes, it seems the Herfindahl-Hirschman index has been forgotten about. And they aren't the only cartel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herfindahl_index

"growth" is not bad.
we used to call that progress.
growing your personal wealth, increasing the output of your farm, or workshop, or factory, expanding your company into new markets used to be how you made a better life for yourself, now growth is for government, and when government grows, it robs from society, to feed government's growth

the focus on government's wealth and health, away from the wealth and health of the economy of the people is poisonous

GDP is a false measure of the economy, it discourages savings, and encourages mindless consumerism among the people, and encourages inflationary monetary policies, cuz a bigger number is good, even if the actual economy is stagnant or shrinking.

the owner of a farm, a shop, or a business wants his PROFITS to increase, not just his "cash flow", the current system, with it's myopic focus on GDP, is only interested in Cash Flow, not concrete improvements in the bottom line.

GDP makes no distinction between debt spending and spending with real monies, so debt spending is viewed as a better choice than real monies, theres no downside if you only look at cash flow.

and finally, a cartel is a group of firms, usually in the same industry who work in concert to fix prices, and prevent competition. cartels operate as a single entity, becoming a de facto monopoly.

competitors acting in concert to fix prices or suppress competition are ILLEGAL in the US, and have been since the administration of the Mighty TR

such a hero we shall not see in these dark times.

companies acting as a cartel are ILLEGAL, and should be busted by the regulators, not just because they fix prices, but because they prevent small fry from entering The Great Material Continuum and making a go of their companies.

the only legal cartel in the US is the Federal Reserve.

even De Beers must keep it's cartel operations in foreign lands, and can only open "marketing" firms in the US.

 

[Dr Kynes]

the Cloward Piven Strategy

Two Columbia profs reaching prominence in the late 70's. Do we know anyone who went there during that time, who in his own words seeked out professors of this ilk? Does anything we are doing look like we aren't following that plan?

those biters just took the strategem of the Brothers Gracchi (~130 BC for fuck's sake) and named it after themselves.

like i said, this new shit is all just Old Shit with a new name.

 

[burgertime2010]

not one goddam drop of that bolshevik nonsense. a free-market, run by free men........................

and when the plebs demand more from the dole than the productive members of the society can provide, entitlements cause the collapse of the society, and the institution of the authoritarian state.

thats what turned rome from a republic into an empire, and empires fall, every single time.

in a hypothetical question about entitlements it seems unfair to assert your opinion as factual. I am not asking you how my opinions are incorrect. I am entitled to stop and suggest at just because people need assistance sometimes it is not a doomsday scenario. My entitlements are rational, there are many where that is not the case. It is a balancing act of cultural priorities

 

[Dr Kynes]

in a hypothetical question about entitlements it seems unfair to assert your opinion as factual. I am not asking you how my opinions are incorrect. I am entitled to stop and suggest at just because people need assistance sometimes it is not a doomsday scenario. My entitlements are rational, there are many where that is not the case. It is a balancing act of cultural priorities

you forget this thread started with, and continues to be, about the "BUI", the lefty wet dream of Universal Basic Income, which is Social Security Checks for all.

it IS the Roman Dole, and it will bankrupt the system, encourage idleness and indolence, discourage work, and cause runaway inflation.

the goal is, as always, to "Smash Capitalism" by feeding into the cupidity of the laziest, stupidest, most ignorant, and least worthwhile members of society.

what Marx called The Lumpen Proletariat.

if you cant sell violent revolution, cuz even the Lumpen Proles are wise to the bullshit, then you must fabricate a crisis, something like a Reichstaag Fire, and then, you may continue your march towards the socialist state and the communist utopia at the end of the rainbow.

Edit: also, WTF??

"in a hypothetical question about entitlements it seems unfair to assert your opinion as factual"

did you seriously just argue that it's UNFAIR to use facts because the other side cant scrape together any support for their argument???

REALLY???

is that the rule now?

 

[burgertime2010]

you forget this thread started with, and continues to be, about the "BUI", the lefty wet dream of Universal Basic Income, which is Social Security Checks for all.

it IS the Roman Dole, and it will bankrupt the system, encourage idleness and indolence, discourage work, and cause runaway inflation.

the goal is, as always, to "Smash Capitalism" by feeding into the cupidity of the laziest, stupidest, most ignorant, and least worthwhile members of society.

what Marx called The Lumpen Proletariat.

if you cant sell violent revolution, cuz even the Lumpen Proles are wise to the bullshit, then you must fabricate a crisis, something like a Reichstaag Fire, and then, you may continue your march towards the socialist state and the communist utopia at the end of the rainbow.

Edit: also, WTF??

"in a hypothetical question about entitlements it seems unfair to assert your opinion as factual"

did you seriously just argue that it's UNFAIR to use facts because the other side cant scrape together any support for their argument???

REALLY???

is that the rule now?

The thread asks what people feel they are, should, or should not be entitled to? So, the statements I made we not arguments. Communist utopia? Violent revolution? Lefty wet dream? These are not facts nor anything I previously mentioned. I don't know who you think I am?

 

[abandonconflict]

Basic Universal Income won't do anything to change the privatization of resources.

 

[Dr Kynes]

The thread asks what people feel they are, should, or should not be entitled to? So, the statements I made we not arguments. Communist utopia? Violent revolution? Lefty wet dream? These are not facts nor anything I previously mentioned. I don't know who you think I am?

this thread, and many of the participant therein are promulgating for MORE ENTITLEMENTS.

for the recipient, more entitlements are a Benefit, for the tax payer, who actually foots the bill they, are a Liability.

whom do you suppose pays for these "benefits"?
Answer: those who pay taxes, such as myself.

you may see opposition of your desire for MORE BENEFITS as mean spirited, but from my perspective, as one of the ever shrinking number of persons who pay those benefits, i see More Entitlements as highway robbery.

i already pay a substantial tax burden, when you tot up all the taxes, fees, levies, assessments, etc etc etc, more than 40% of my pay goes to government in some form or fashion.

for every $10k i earn, i only get to keep $6k, from which i must make my rent, insurance, food, fuel, utilities, clothing, cleaning supplies, personal hygiene products, and hopefully sock a little away to buy that farm i have been dreaming of ever since the government stole my grandfather's after he died.

and now you propose you are entitled to all sorts of NEW shit, from my meager pay, because you can fog a mirror and arent in prison...

for those who are legitimately disabled and unable to work, fine, hook em up, plasma screens for every gimp!

for those caught in the welfare trap, who must choose either staying on the dole, or losing their home if they get a job, propose a solution, im listening.
but the "BUI" and MORE WELFARE isnt a solution, it's kicking the can down the road, and it's MY CAN for fuck's sake!

for those who see the dole as a solution to their unwillingness to get a job, Fuck Em. let em starve in the streets.

i suspect you only view entitlements from the perspective of the recipient, rather than from the perspective of the guy who has to pay for it.

 

[Pinworm]

/pinworm'd

 

[Dr Kynes]

Basic Universal Income won't do anything to change the privatization of resources.

ha ha h ah ah ah ha ha

you are such a disingenuous prevaricator!

taking my shit and giving it to others WILL do a lot to prevent my personal privatization of resources, it just wont have much effect on the fabulously wealthy in the short term.

in the long term, once the plebs start throwing Dole Riots demanding the dole be increased again and again, then finally you may achieve your ultimate aim, and can finally "Smash Capitalism"

and what shall replace capitalism?

shhhh... it's a seekwit!

 

[abandonconflict]

“Nineteenth-century democracy needs no more complete vindication for its existence than the fact that it has kept for the white race the best portions of the new world’s surface.”
~Theodore Roosevelt

 

[Pinworm]

"Be drinkable" - Henry rollins

 

[abandonconflict]

"I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth" ~Theodore Roosevelt

 

[abandonconflict]

Kynes called someone disingenuous, as if they were distorting arguments, redefining words, engaging in fallacy or any of the other tactics he so regularly employs.

 

[Pinworm]

"I can't believe I ate the whole thing" - Alka-seltzer Commercial

 

[Pinworm]

 

[burgertime2010]

this thread, and many of the participant therein are promulgating for MORE ENTITLEMENTS.

for the recipient, more entitlements are a Benefit, for the tax payer, who actually foots the bill they, are a Liability.

whom do you suppose pays for these "benefits"?
Answer: those who pay taxes, such as myself.

you may see opposition of your desire for MORE BENEFITS as mean spirited, but from my perspective, as one of the ever shrinking number of persons who pay those benefits, i see More Entitlements as highway robbery.

i already pay a substantial tax burden, when you tot up all the taxes, fees, levies, assessments, etc etc etc, more than 40% of my pay goes to government in some form or fashion.

for every $10k i earn, i only get to keep $6k, from which i must make my rent, insurance, food, fuel, utilities, clothing, cleaning supplies, personal hygiene products, and hopefully sock a little away to buy that farm i have been dreaming of ever since the government stole my grandfather's after he died.

and now you propose you are entitled to all sorts of NEW shit, from my meager pay, because you can fog a mirror and arent in prison...

for those who are legitimately disabled and unable to work, fine, hook em up, plasma screens for every gimp!

for those caught in the welfare trap, who must choose either staying on the dole, or losing their home if they get a job, propose a solution, im listening.
but the "BUI" and MORE WELFARE isnt a solution, it's kicking the can down the road, and it's MY CAN for fuck's sake!

for those who see the dole as a solution to their unwillingness to get a job, Fuck Em. let em starve in the streets.

i suspect you only view entitlements from the perspective of the recipient, rather than from the perspective of the guy who has to pay for it.

You put it in a very convincing way. I am a gimp by your terms and people that are paying the taxes to help me I do appreciate. But, you should be ashamed of yourself. You can't pay your way out of the awful person you are. I paid taxes too, but never made people who needed them my enemy. You hate your burden than choose to leave or gain perspective. "Let em starve" you are a sociopathic narcissist and the country that abides by your cruelty is doomed as well. I can empathize with the taxpayers but can see where it all ends up. You will be in need at some point in your life and I hope someone treats you as shitty as you would to them. I will put words in your mouth now "i apologize for my lack of perspective, greed is all I know"

 

[Dr Kynes]

You put it in a very convincing way. I am a gimp by your terms and people that are paying the taxes to help me I do appreciate. But, you should be ashamed of yourself. You can't pay your way out of the awful person you are. I paid taxes too, but never made people who needed them my enemy. You hate your burden than choose to leave or gain perspective. "Let em starve" you are a sociopathic narcissist and the country that abides by your cruelty is doomed as well. I can empathize with the taxpayers but can see where it all ends up. You will be in need at some point in your life and I hope someone treats you as shitty as you would to them. I will put words in your mouth now "i apologize for my lack of perspective, greed is all I know"

and this is why nobody listens to lefties when they demand shit.

even the most gently worded opposition to their desires for More Free Shit on somebody else's tab results in this ^^

a screeching hysterical rebuke based on your Feels, and how badly i hurt them.

the issue? irrelevant
the economic realities? irrelevant
the fact that i am NOT actually proposing throwing the disabled and the trapped into the streets to starve? Irrelevant

i dont want to pay for assholes who COULD and SHOULD be working, or at least looking for work, so im a meanie.

thats mighty big talk From A Recipient Of My Largesse!

since we are now engaging in "putting words in other people's mouths"

"Fritos?? I said i want Doritos! Now go get the right shit, you crusty old bitch!!!" ~burgertime at his grandmother's 100th birthday party
"This roast chicken is not Free Range! Anarchy Anarchy Anarchy!!" ~burgertime at a free lunch for the indigent
"These eucharist wafers are not gluten free!! fuck you, and fuck you, and fuck you!! fuck all you assholes, and fuck you, you little whore!!!" ~burgertime at his niece's first communion

 

[burgertime2010]

I am tired of Corporations, Wall Street, and the military taking subsidies and causing their part of your tax burden. You might talk about that once.

 

[burgertime2010]

and this is why nobody listens to lefties when they demand shit.

even the most gently worded opposition to their desires for More Free Shit on somebody else's tab results in this ^^

a screeching hysterical rebuke based on your Feels, and how badly i hurt them.

the issue? irrelevant
the economic realities? irrelevant
the fact that i am NOT actually proposing throwing the disabled and the trapped into the streets to starve? Irrelevant

i dont want to pay for assholes who COULD and SHOULD be working, or at least looking for work, so im a meanie.

thats mighty big talk From A Recipient Of My Largesse!

since we are now engaging in "putting words in other people's mouths"

"Fritos?? I said i want Doritos! Now go get the right shit, you crusty old bitch!!!" ~burgertime at his grandmother's 100th birthday party
"This roast chicken is not Free Range! Anarchy Anarchy Anarchy!!" ~burgertime at a free lunch for the indigent
"These eucharist wafers are not gluten free!! fuck you, and fuck you, and fuck you!! fuck all you assholes, and fuck you, you little whore!!!" ~burgertime at his niece's first communion

You need a psychiatrist. It's easy to talk shit here...so proceed, it's too bad really I would love to change you mind in real life.