Make no mistake: Medicare for All would cut taxes for most Americans

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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I'm not sure where you are coming up with that from. My point was that if we all contribute to society as a whole, then as a whole we will have a better society. I pay taxes on my home, but my kids don't go to public school. I'm not asking for that money back, because I know that it's helping the kids across the street get an education, and then they are less likely to rob me in the future because they won't be in as of a desperate situation.
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i find it amazing how those who call themselves liberals don't understand this little concept..they continue with the 'mine all mine' mindset which is indicative of anti-social and narcissistic tendencies of the right:wall:

are they really liberals or do they feel the need to identify with because being known as a rightie is too much to bear? sounds pretty conflicted to me..imo just say you're of the right and be done with it instead of pretending..
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
It is "obvious"? Is that how laws are written?

Not a single person can be covered under Bernie's plan because none of those services are paid for. For examples of how well unplanned for changes in government programs go, look no further than just about everything Trump has tried to do.

350 million people depend on a smooth-running healthcare system. Though we support single payer universal healthcare coverage, most people don't support Bernie's bill because it doesn't include the kind of details needed that would make for a well planned change to a single payer system.

You keep arguing for universal healthcare coverage and most in the US agree it is needed. With that kind of political mandate we expect more than the unfunded medical care legislation that Bernie submitted to the Senate.

Bernie's medicare for all bill is typical of "fake it till you make it" hucksterism. Most people aren't taken in by that. Some are.
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I do see your point, but sometimes you need to take things one step at a time. We can approve of the ideology of the bill now, and figure out the funding in the next step. Yes of course taxes will go up.

As far as "fake it till ya make it", that works more often than you might think.

 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
i find it amazing how those who call themselves liberals don't understand this little concept..they continue with the 'mine all mine' mindset which is indicative of anti-social and narcissistic tendencies of the right:wall:

are they really liberals or do they feel the need to identify with because being known as a rightie is too much to bear? sounds pretty conflicted to me..imo just say you're of the right and be done with it instead of pretending..
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They aren't liberals, but they don't want to be too closely associated with the far-right either. They are centrists. That's why they like Clinton and Biden, who are also centrists. Personally I think the centrists are afraid of change. Fear rules their moral compass unfortunately. Some of them tho I hear are good people.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
BurtMaklin said:
That's not true. That number only counts if everyone in America has healthcare, but as it stands, only the people who are not priced out depend on a smooth running healthcare system. A disproportionate number of those who can't afford it are minorities.

Careful, your privilege is showing. It's pretty cool to be white in America, huh?

You just don't want to pay for it, hypocrite!
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Burt, you don't know enough to argue about facts with me.

Everybody in the US depends on a smooth running healthcare system. The actual number of people in the US is 330 million but you aren't quibbling with me over that mistaken 20 million people. Still, everybody depends on a smooth running healthcare system, even those who can't pay for it and go to the Emergency Clinic when they must. By law, Emergency Clinics must accept everybody. I think you'd agree that people depend on a smooth running Emergency Clinic, don't you?

As with shown in your brain dead reply, you not only have difficulty with facts, your reading comprehension is low too. I keep saying I support single payer healthcare and universal coverage. I don't support Bernie's bill which is a fraud.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I do see your point, but sometimes you need to take things one step at a time. We can approve of the ideology of the bill now, and figure out the funding in the next step. Yes of course taxes will go up.

As far as "fake it till ya make it", that works more often than you might think.

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Fake it till you make it fails more often than it succeeds. It is a marketing tool for start-up businesses to raise money, which is fine when failure only means that wealthy investors lost some money.

The fake it till you make it marketing approach has failed to sell the American public on Bernie's bill, which makes promises it cannot deliver. How about if you join us and demand a better bill be written?
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
They aren't liberals, but they don't want to be too closely associated with the far-right either. They are centrists. That's why they like Clinton and Biden, who are also centrists. Personally I think the centrists are afraid of change. Fear rules their moral compass unfortunately. Some of them tho I hear are good people.
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off topic:

how will we handle him not leaving?- you know he's not going to even if voted out or impeached.
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Burt, you don't know enough to argue about facts with me.

Everybody in the US depends on a smooth running healthcare system. The actual number of people in the US is 330 million but you aren't quibbling with me over that mistaken 20 million people. Still, everybody depends on a smooth running healthcare system, even those who can't pay for it and go to the Emergency Clinic when they must. By law, Emergency Clinics must accept everybody. I think you'd agree that people depend on a smooth running Emergency Clinic, don't you?

As with shown in your brain dead reply, you not only have difficulty with facts, your reading comprehension is low too. I keep saying I support single payer healthcare and universal coverage. I don't support Bernie's bill which is a fraud.
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then educate him, Uppity.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Fake it till you make it fails more often than it succeeds. It is a marketing tool for start-up businesses to raise money, which is fine when failure only means that wealthy investors lost some money.

The fake it till you make it marketing approach has failed to sell the American public on Bernie's bill, which makes promises it cannot deliver. How about if you join us and demand a better bill be written?
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I'm not opposed to a "better bill". But I'm also not opposed to Bernie's first step. Progress is good.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
ummmmmmm actually it does..but I'll bite.. what, praytell, do you mean?

Bernies bill covers exactly THOSE people..don't forget how much your mom LOVES Medicare..time to share the wealth- betchya I've paid more into the system than she and have seen jack shite for it!

actually you can let mom know that this whitey is supporting her- it's my turn now.
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Nope.

Bernie's bill has no means to pay for services. You want phantom health care services in exchange for imaginary money. Don't let your dog bite you if Bernie's bill becomes law as written. An imaginary doctor in an imaginary hospital will give you imaginary antibiotics in exchange for imaginary payment to treat a real condition and you'll really die.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
I'm not opposed to a "better bill". But I'm also not opposed to Bernie's first step. Progress is good.
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If you support Bernie's bill then you oppose anything that could be better. That is not progress. Fortunately, only a tiny group of people say as you do.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
and..he's not allowed to be educated about America?
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He's not entitled to my attention. He made it to an advanced age under Canada's education system. He's their problem not mine. Same as you, educated and raised in Florida. You made it to old age as an ignorant Floridian and I am under no obligation to raise you out of ignorance.
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
He's not entitled to my attention. He made it to an advanced age under Canada's education system. He's their problem not mine. Same as you, educated and raised in Florida. You made it to old age as an ignorant Floridian and I am under no obligation to raise you out of ignorance.
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entitled?:lol: are you high yellow, Uppity?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
What you are describing is a false dichotomy. In fact it's very possible to support multiple competing factions at the same time.
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If you support Bernie and his healthcare bill then you have already eliminated other options.

I'm all for discussing how to move this country from where it now is to universal healthcare. I think the path begins with shoring up the ACA with funding to subsidize everybody who can't now afford health care coverage. Also, the Medicare buy-in option as a choice for people when selecting their coverage provider. Everybody who is already covered under a qualified private insurance plan should be able to keep it.

The Medicare buy-in option will bring an end to private insurance once people find it is cheaper and provides just as good of a service. What people are resisting is being forced from plans they like and into an undefined Medicare system. Also, Medicare isn't ready to expand to cover all 330 million people. This transition must be done well or people who currently depend on the system will suffer.
 
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