War

[Lucky Luke]

What puzzles me is these guys are clutching their pearls over the use of what they perceive as an improper pronoun, but seem to be quite alright with horrendous atrocities being committed by (put your approved pronoun here)....

Who said i was alright with it? Didn't i just say that anyone who committed war crimes should be punished? Just Like Bush should. You seem OK with Bush not being punished. Not long ago you even defended the use of WMD on Japan if you recall. Its the age old "its OK if we did it but not if they did it"

I'm a realist and know that atrocities and war crimes happen in wars. You fought in one you of all people know its true. You and LED are emotionally involved with this war and post lots of propaganda type stuff. I'm not and try to balance the thread.

 

[cannabineer]

Who said i was alright with it? Didn't i just say that anyone who committed war crimes should be punished? Just Like Bush should. You seem OK with Bush not being punished. Not long ago you even defended the use of WMD on Japan if you recall. Its the age old "its OK if we did it but not if they did it"
I'm a realist and know that atrocities and war crimes happen in wars. You fought in one you of all people know its true.

Dude.
The use of nukes in Japan converted half a million US casualties and (hard to estimate) many million Japanese casualties into a total of two hundred thousand.

Mind you, I don’t think another nuclear release is justifiable now that we have had 78 years to think it through. But to equate then with now is not honest.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Who said i was alright with it? Didn't i just say that anyone who committed war crimes should be punished? Just Like Bush should. You seem OK with Bush not being punished. Not long ago you even defended the use of WMD on Japan if you recall.
I'm a realist and know that atrocities and war crimes happen in wars.

As far as I'm concerned hang Dubya, but he did con or coerce international support and it might not be a good idea to drag his ass the Hague and try to make a case. I doubt Putin will make the journey and there is a much better case and an indictment.

International law and its enforcement are evolving, it a new thing in an increasingly global culture. BTW the US only controls about 25% of the global economy, so they haven't been that violent in trying to maintain the economic hegemony that fell into their lap following the WW2. At one point America feed damn near every country on the planet or helped them out in some way. They turned enemies into friends and allies pretty quickly. I know you want perfection, but this is the best we have so far and nobody else did more or better, credit where credit is due.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Dude.
The use of nukes in Japan converted half a million US casualties and (hard to estimate) many million Japanese casualties into a total of two hundred thousand.

Mind you, I don’t think another nuclear release is justifiable now that we have had 78 years to think it through. But to equate then with now is not honest.

But they were not needed as we have discussed before.

You are now doing the same thing. "its ok if we did it".

 

[cannabineer]

But they were not needed as we have discussed before.

You are now doing the same thing. "its ok if we did it".

No; you claimed that they were not needed, and imo your argument was badly premised.

Also, your conclusion is flawed. If we do it again, it is not ok. We used up our Monopoly card.

 

[Lucky Luke]

As far as I'm concerned hang Dubya, but he did con or coerce international support and it might not be a good idea to drag his ass the Hague and try to make a case. I doubt Putin will make the journey and there is a much better case and an indictment.

International law and its enforcement are evolving, it a new thing in an increasingly global culture. BTW the US only controls about 25% of the global economy, so they haven't been that violent in trying to maintain the economic hegemony that fell into their lap following the WW2. At one point America feed damn near every country on the planet or helped them out in some way. They turned enemies into friends and allies pretty quickly. I know you want perfection, but this is the best we have so far and nobody else did more or better, credit where credit is due.

I don't want perfection. Just happy to chat about whats goin on the world.

 

[Lucky Luke]

No; you claimed that they were not needed, and imo your argument was badly premised.

Also, your conclusion is flawed. If we do it again, it is not ok. We used up our Monopoly card.

I can see why Americans stick to the old PR story and I don't hold it against you. What choice do you really have.

 

[cannabineer]

I can see why Americans stick to the old PR story and I don't hold it against you. What choice do you really have.

A fairly gentle way to say I’m full of shit. However I don’t think you have this one right.

 

[cannabineer]

I can see why Americans stick to the old PR story and I don't hold it against you. What choice do you really have.

as for choice, I personally think honor beats out loyalty. So if my nation does something bad, I will exercise my freedom to say so (to the extent that I am correctly informed; that is a head-scratching limitation). What we did in Afghanistan was bullshit.

 

[Lucky Luke]

A fairly gentle way to say I’m full of shit. However I don’t think you have this one right.

I think in this day and age that America just coming out and saying "Hey OK, we dropped two nukes on Japan to make sure they surrendered to us instead of Russia invading their home islands, taking control of Japan and controlling that section of the globe." would not be that controversial. Especially in light of the Cold war and this war.

 

[cannabineer]

I think in this day and age that America just coming out and saying "Hey OK, we dropped two nukes on Japan to make sure they surrendered to us instead of Russia invading their home islands taking control of Japan and control that section of the globe." would not be that controversial. Especially in light of the Cold war and this war.

Skewed narrative imo

 

[Lucky Luke]

Skewed narrative imo

If Russia invaded Japans home islands like their plan was and it was an undefended back door as we know it was. How did dropping not one but two nuclear bombs save the huge numbers of American lives who would not of been required to invade Japan?

Unfortunately just like every war lies and propaganda and PR are told to the population, The early history is written by the victors for their own population. Truth usually comes to light but the earlier History is believed. Classic example JJ mentioned a week ago about Japan invading Australia. It wasn't true but people, and some Australians, believe it even today even though our chief war historians and intelligence agency and Japanese historians say there was no real plan.
Once a lie is believed and taught its hard to shift it.

 

[cannabineer]

If Russia invaded Japans home islands like their plan was and it was an undefended back door as we know it was. How did dropping not one but two nuclear bombs save the huge numbers of American lives who would not of been required to invade Japan?

Unfortunately just like every war lies and propaganda and PR are told to the population, The early history is written by the victors for their own population. Truth usually comes to light but the earlier History is believed. Classic example JJ mentioned a week ago about Japan invading Australia. It wasn't true but people, and some Australians, believe it even today even though our chief war historians and intelligence agency and Japanese historians say there was no real plan.

Because I do not ascribe the same weight to the Soviet threat that you do. Our premises diverge, making apples-to-apples discussion less likely.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Because I do not ascribe the same weight to the Soviet threat that you do. Our premises diverge, making apples-to-apples discussion less likely.

Of cause. The truth would otherwise be uncomfortable and over coming something that you have aways believed to be true is extremely difficult for humans especially as we age.

 

[HGCC]

Funny he's not at the funerals demanding in the caskets be opened and accusing the families of being crises actors so they can get death threats from lunatics. They are getting soft, years ago they would be parading around the shooting site dressed like soldiers, displaying their AR-15s and shoving their 2nd amendment rats down yer throat. Like I said, they are getting soft, and it is a sign of increasing weakness...

I dont think even the phrase "somebody should shoot that guy in his gun" is adequate for Jones. That olde tyme shit where they put a rat in a tube up against someone's skin and light the other end on fire so it eats through the person...maybe that if we could do it daily for 20 years or so.

Really can't adequately express what a horrible person he is. He's Westboro Baptist church level of evil asshole, but with a much larger audience.

Making your living convincing wackos to go after the families of school shootings is just unconscionable. I think quite badly of his fans at this juncture. It's over there with being a Hitler fan.

 

[cannabineer]

Of cause. The truth would otherwise be uncomfortable and over coming something that you have aways believed to be true is extremely difficult for humans especially as we age.

so you think yourself in possession of the truth.

 

[Lucky Luke]

so you think yourself in possession of the truth.

View attachment 5282621

Its freely available: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Soviet_invasion_of_Hokkaido#:~:text=During the Soviet–Japanese War,before the invasion could begin.

"US President Harry Truman was willing to accept the Soviet annexation of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, which remained part of the Soviet Union after the war, but he staunchly opposed any Soviet escapade on Hokkaido. The Potsdam Declaration intended that all of the Japanese home islands be surrendered to US General Douglas MacArthur, rather than to the Soviets "

Japan still wants its islands back.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

FPV drone with RPG warhead strikes Russian tank.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

For the cost of one Javelin reload you could probably get 200 FPV suicide drones into the air, better range than a javelin or about the same, but not as lethal against tanks, an APC might be a different story and against a truck would be even more destructive. They can save the good stuff in many cases when this shit will stop them or is the only thing they have at a location. Reports are they are making tens of thousands of them, and we are seeing them used constantly now. The pilot records the flight with a DVR built into the FPV goggles and it is used for intelligence purposes and to confirm kills, I imagine they have an informal ace system in place by now and a tank kill scores the most points. Also, there are few military secrets let out when they are using commercial equipment, so we get to see more videos. They got a lot of international support from several organizations for this purpose, and they want to show their donors the money is being well spent. Send more and we will use it to kill more Russians and show you the proof! Mark Hamil helped kill many Russians, he raised a lot of money for it and the force is definitely with the Ukrainians.

Manufactured by US weapons manufacturers Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, the Javelin costs $178,000, including the launch system and missile, according to the Pentagon's 2021 budget. Each replacement missile costs around $78,000.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Update from Ukraine | Minus Leopard 2, Plus Migs and Bradleys for Ukraine | Counterattack is close