Dr. Greenhorn
Well-Known Member
yeah....I usually stay away from these threads and stick to the grow room.... I get schooled in here!!! LOL peace man
Religion, or lack of, open discussion/FRIENDLY debate.
- Thread starter CaptnJack
- Start date
godsgarden
Active Member
yes dr greenhorn guessed right. FAITH
have FAITH in a better life after this one. Do good things, treat people with respect, if not for GOD do it for yourself and the feeling you get after helping someone out whether it be giving a few bucks away or sharing a few kind words of ecouragement.
God Bless
have FAITH in a better life after this one. Do good things, treat people with respect, if not for GOD do it for yourself and the feeling you get after helping someone out whether it be giving a few bucks away or sharing a few kind words of ecouragement.
God Bless
I have been asking the same questions for a while. More so I had been trying to prove Gods existence, and a benevolent existence at that. I finally came across Zen. Zen asks probably one of the most important questions I have ever heard Who are you, the real you, can you show me?.
Its tricky but gets the job done, we are talking about the real you, not the wannabe, changing, developing person etc.. The real you. Most would think its soul, yet the questions asks for a demonstration. It basically brings the question of God to your front door. Zen as Alan Watts said is concerned with the finger pointing at the moon. Quotes like The sword can cut everything but itself are a perfect point as to what it attempts to ask. We speak of belief, love, and all that jazz. Yet who is the one doing this?
After some consideration and a good smoke, I had an epiphany of an understanding. This is me, all of it. It is up to me to assume what me I wish to be, and this is only done in relationship to someone or something else. I am God, if you understand the definition of it. God the Creator separated in to separate matter to experience myself (Conversations with God- Donald Walsh)
The funny thing is I am human right now, but because I at some level have chosen that. If I chose or willed to be God, all I would have to do is lose the identity of the false self (The I am, what I am Not, thus I am) and understand the unity I have with All. If I did that though no more super highs, love, tears, drama and so on. Or maybe not, maybe I would be everything?
Would I be all the people in our lives? Since I know its only a role, an identity, that is the only way I can compare to being something more. In other words there is a self out there, a Me, that has done it. Defied space and time and became the universe and upon looking back said, hey I liked the ride, going to keep it. Its a loop anyways, the eternal loop of the Now. Every moment being re-created to eternity.
So from it you get various understandings about life. You realize first off you are who you are because of a relationship to something. Secondly, you control that relationship. You also realize that all the other yous out there, are you deciding to act as another person. Heck the future God You is here Now and we dont even see it. We cant see it because its us. The moment we ask who is God, it means that we consider God to be a separate force, separate from our own consciousness. How could that be, if that was the case how would God even know of us? How do we know of us?
The whole thing leads to the process of freedom. The action of getting free will. For the most part we have sold our free will to an game console, a car, or even another human being to be happy (marriage). Most of us run away from something. Rarely do any of us run towards ourselves, or at least an understanding of. Its called attachment. Definition of self with something that appears to be external to our self. LSD points out that maybe we are not so separate, so do various modern theories of physics. But I find peace in knowing that: Hey if we didnt do this whole thing to begin with, I wouldnt be here right now. Would I?
The argument is basically simple. How certain are you that this world you live in is real? Blue Pill -- Red Pill
Its tricky but gets the job done, we are talking about the real you, not the wannabe, changing, developing person etc.. The real you. Most would think its soul, yet the questions asks for a demonstration. It basically brings the question of God to your front door. Zen as Alan Watts said is concerned with the finger pointing at the moon. Quotes like The sword can cut everything but itself are a perfect point as to what it attempts to ask. We speak of belief, love, and all that jazz. Yet who is the one doing this?
After some consideration and a good smoke, I had an epiphany of an understanding. This is me, all of it. It is up to me to assume what me I wish to be, and this is only done in relationship to someone or something else. I am God, if you understand the definition of it. God the Creator separated in to separate matter to experience myself (Conversations with God- Donald Walsh)
The funny thing is I am human right now, but because I at some level have chosen that. If I chose or willed to be God, all I would have to do is lose the identity of the false self (The I am, what I am Not, thus I am) and understand the unity I have with All. If I did that though no more super highs, love, tears, drama and so on. Or maybe not, maybe I would be everything?
Would I be all the people in our lives? Since I know its only a role, an identity, that is the only way I can compare to being something more. In other words there is a self out there, a Me, that has done it. Defied space and time and became the universe and upon looking back said, hey I liked the ride, going to keep it. Its a loop anyways, the eternal loop of the Now. Every moment being re-created to eternity.
So from it you get various understandings about life. You realize first off you are who you are because of a relationship to something. Secondly, you control that relationship. You also realize that all the other yous out there, are you deciding to act as another person. Heck the future God You is here Now and we dont even see it. We cant see it because its us. The moment we ask who is God, it means that we consider God to be a separate force, separate from our own consciousness. How could that be, if that was the case how would God even know of us? How do we know of us?
The whole thing leads to the process of freedom. The action of getting free will. For the most part we have sold our free will to an game console, a car, or even another human being to be happy (marriage). Most of us run away from something. Rarely do any of us run towards ourselves, or at least an understanding of. Its called attachment. Definition of self with something that appears to be external to our self. LSD points out that maybe we are not so separate, so do various modern theories of physics. But I find peace in knowing that: Hey if we didnt do this whole thing to begin with, I wouldnt be here right now. Would I?
The argument is basically simple. How certain are you that this world you live in is real? Blue Pill -- Red Pill
Dr. Greenhorn
Well-Known Member
I love this video!!!
moggggys
Well-Known Member
sorry but its all bollox , there is no magical mystery here , its all man made to control and man is very simple to lead , i do believe in christian values but not the manipulation of the masses , its an irony that people here would question in a heart beat the slightest miss quote or incorrect posting and yet would not seek to question something thats ingrained into us all from before we have the smarts to be able to question it , all i can really bring to this is a fella called derran brown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX5xMjfBDes
his use of the control techinques in religous contex is profound and yet hes kind enough to explain exactly whats happening , his religious belief is rather lacking lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX5xMjfBDes
his use of the control techinques in religous contex is profound and yet hes kind enough to explain exactly whats happening , his religious belief is rather lacking lol
dynamitejack
Well-Known Member
I took 1 class on greek mythology and learned how generic some of the bible's stories were. For instance the story of Noah's Ark was almost a direct copy of a part of the story of Gilgamesh and the story of Gilgamesh is the oldest known work of literature.
I was also taken back about how Christianity, Judaism and Islam shared many of the same stories.We studied the three different versions of the story of Joseph and they all told the same story just with different details. I think there were a few other stories that were more different than not but its been a few years since that class.
To me religion is a way for humans to describe what they don't understand and to make humans feel better about dying. The reason I believe this is because so many of the worlds ancient civilizations such as the egyptians, greeks, myans and aztecs (to name a few) all created their own gods. The greeks religion started as stories. Stories about things they couldn't understand and over the years these stories became dogma which controlled almost every one of the greek's decisions. Isn't the bible a book of stories? How many times do we know it has been revised? Sounds similar to the greeks huh?
People do act good in the name of god but they have also acted very, very bad in the name of god as well. Why do you have to hope for a better life after this one? Why not make the life your living the best you can?
I think you have a Pantheistic view there
wm2009
Member
There's 2 types of atheists.
The ones that just don't feel the need to believe in God, because they enjoy life as it is, and/or because they don't like the idea of God.
These kind of "atheists" would not believe in God even if one day it's existence will be proven!
This kind of atheism is a dogma as well, because it refuse sciencentific research to keep beliefs.
There's the ones that prove that God does not exist (like me), because of scientific research.
One day I said myself I could accept the existence of God, as well as it's non existence.
Agnosticism is a good start.
Now the same thing can be said for believers, there is the one that have been brainwashed and feel good to think that God exist. And the one that will believe in God after something happens in his life.
This kind of believers were atheists first, and when you ask them why you believe they say that God comes not from the intellect, from the outside, but from the inside. That they have been illuminated by God itself.
The ones that just don't feel the need to believe in God, because they enjoy life as it is, and/or because they don't like the idea of God.
These kind of "atheists" would not believe in God even if one day it's existence will be proven!
This kind of atheism is a dogma as well, because it refuse sciencentific research to keep beliefs.
There's the ones that prove that God does not exist (like me), because of scientific research.
One day I said myself I could accept the existence of God, as well as it's non existence.
Agnosticism is a good start.
Now the same thing can be said for believers, there is the one that have been brainwashed and feel good to think that God exist. And the one that will believe in God after something happens in his life.
This kind of believers were atheists first, and when you ask them why you believe they say that God comes not from the intellect, from the outside, but from the inside. That they have been illuminated by God itself.
wm2009
Member
I don't get what you mean, if you believe in evolution you should believe that anything is possible. Why put limits ?
However, I want to say evolutionism still not a prove to atheism, to point this out, evolution may be considered creationism as well, not static but that changes, now your issue is if all has been predicted or not.
CrackerJax
New Member
I think in the end... no one will know the truth. That's the great trick of it all. It is all a canard.
The DESIRE to worship is a Darwinian hook up with the evolved brain. A survival mechanism of a sort. It has in its many forms (religion,worship) kept us going throughout our very brief history.
CaptnJack
Active Member
I do keep it friendly, but if ppl just do it again, anyway, then its needs to be corrected.
k? peace out.
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
What someone else chooses to believe is largely irrelevant to me. In other words, it's none of my business.
The First Amendment addresses the right to believe, or to be free from belief altogether.
My problem is with those who would hold fast to the First Amendment in defense of their own beliefs, but refuse that same protection to people who believe differently, or not at all.
In God We Trust on our currency? Bullshit!
Public subsidizing of churches with property tax exemptions and non-profit status? Bullshit!
My state Legislature opens every session with a prayer offered by a different minister brought in each day specifically for that purpose. Bullshit!
When I served, a soldier who needed counseling had no choice but to go see the Chaplain. Bullshit!
And let's not forget the Pledge of Allegiance with the phrase 'under God' included. When it was added is not important. The fact is it was added - by Congress. Bullshit!
The First Amendment addresses the right to believe, or to be free from belief altogether.
My problem is with those who would hold fast to the First Amendment in defense of their own beliefs, but refuse that same protection to people who believe differently, or not at all.
In God We Trust on our currency? Bullshit!
Public subsidizing of churches with property tax exemptions and non-profit status? Bullshit!
My state Legislature opens every session with a prayer offered by a different minister brought in each day specifically for that purpose. Bullshit!
When I served, a soldier who needed counseling had no choice but to go see the Chaplain. Bullshit!
And let's not forget the Pledge of Allegiance with the phrase 'under God' included. When it was added is not important. The fact is it was added - by Congress. Bullshit!
Splinter88
Well-Known Member
How can there not be a God? lol. Supposedly there is enough galaxies in the universe that if they were all marbles, they could fill up a football stadium.
I'm pretty damn sure there is a Creator. But who created the creator and who created THAT creator? Crazy to think about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BToUxSi-QwA
That's one of the many videos about the Annunaki. If your one to believe that we did come from aliens, or had significant HELP from aliens, then you should watch all videos on the annunaki. We were genetic creations of these "giant" beings to work and labor as their slaves.
The Sumerians somehow had depicted our solar system in ways we didn't discover until a few decades ago, without telescopes. Also included was a 10th planet. Planet X, aka Nibiru. Look into planet x and the year 2012.
Anyways, God exists. Benevolent? Probably not, otherwise he wouldn't let us go to "hell." Maybe God just thinks mankind has gone downhill so much recently, he stopped caring.
I'm pretty damn sure there is a Creator. But who created the creator and who created THAT creator? Crazy to think about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BToUxSi-QwA
That's one of the many videos about the Annunaki. If your one to believe that we did come from aliens, or had significant HELP from aliens, then you should watch all videos on the annunaki. We were genetic creations of these "giant" beings to work and labor as their slaves.
The Sumerians somehow had depicted our solar system in ways we didn't discover until a few decades ago, without telescopes. Also included was a 10th planet. Planet X, aka Nibiru. Look into planet x and the year 2012.
Anyways, God exists. Benevolent? Probably not, otherwise he wouldn't let us go to "hell." Maybe God just thinks mankind has gone downhill so much recently, he stopped caring.
CaptnJack
Active Member
and seeing as how every religion we know of, has a god, their term for god translated still means "god" so by having it in the pledge isn't hurting any one in any way, since translated it IS the same word. so even for atheists saying they dont like it cuz they have no god, then in turn infringes on those who do, so dont pledge your allegiance skip the words, you do make good points, but i mean by taking it away from everyone, the only ppl you havent havent taken away from is the atheists.
CanadianCoyote
Well-Known Member
I don't doubt that Jesus (or someone like him) existed, but his divine origins I doubt highly. Pretty much everything connected to the Christian faith I find... well... abominable. More for the shit that people do in its name than anything else. Also, people who take the Bible literally ... I really can't stand those types. I wonder if they've read the whole Bible, I highly doubt they have. And if they HAVE read it, I doubt they understand it.
I'm watching an interesting indie film on the Bio channel called 'Jesus Camp'. It's about a radical Evangelical summer camp for kids. It's... scary. It's scary to think that children in America are being brainwashed in this way. The indoctrination of children is one of the sickest wrongs committed by the religious zealots...
I'm watching an interesting indie film on the Bio channel called 'Jesus Camp'. It's about a radical Evangelical summer camp for kids. It's... scary. It's scary to think that children in America are being brainwashed in this way. The indoctrination of children is one of the sickest wrongs committed by the religious zealots...
Johnnyorganic
Well-Known Member
Interesting rebuttal. And kudos to you for encouraging a civil debate on a volatile subject.
One segment of the population you left out in your response are the agnostics. Those who do not presume to know. Personally, I fit that category and it perturbs me that those who assume they do know have no problem asserting their beliefs in the public square.
I do not know. I have no idea if a deity exits. I figure I'll find out soon enough and I am in no hurry. The simple fact that my money makes a liar out of me is hard evidence that my right to be free of belief has been infringed.
CrackerJax
New Member
It's not about taking away anything....it's about facing a reality and letting the fairy tale go.
CanadianCoyote
Well-Known Member
That always troubled me, too. Canada has hockey players on their money, as well as a portrait of the living Monarch. ... Nothing about God, as far as I know.
You ever see any shows about the conspiracy theories attached to the design of US money? ... Talk about nuts.... wowee...
Jimmy Luffnan
Well-Known Member
This a very massive and deep topic to discuss, and is usually detonated by closed minds and ignorance to favor whichever side thinking you believe...but well done for most of you keeping this topic relatively open
I would just like to offer if I may, just a shaving of this matter as it crosses my thoughts
First of all Id like to say that I am not ignorant enough to believe that there is not a higher power simply because I could never know enough to even have the audacity of saying yes or no.
But I conclude...
In the times before the '10 Commandments' and the bible was a time that is rarely written about called the 'Dark Ages'.....
This was a time when man lived without rule.... rape, murder, theft and many other terrible things existed and violence was the supreme authority from which all other derive....
It was a world of chaos for lack of a better word....
When the 10 Commandments were put upon the world, they were questioned... as who had the right to give such orders....
But due to mans still primitive mind... the only thing feared was the unknown....
So a faceless entity, that knew all, saw all, controlled all was created to hold authoritative for all that could not be explained....
Lightning? God.
Pretty scary stuff... and makes sense why god is from the heavens.... but it scared the shit out of men.... and there lack of understanding led them to believe in such an entity, and control of the masses was successful.
The world now had order.
Fast forward a few thousand years to now.... and this still exists.
People do not have answers to thinks they do not understand, our minds (science) has come along way, just like we realized that lightning is not god... but a scientific creation of nature....
But religion has manifested its way through many cultures creating many different interpretations and beliefs surrounding a higher power.... yet the control method remains the same.....
The reason religions fight, is not because of the beliefs, but because of those who use the belief for their power like a weapon....
I believe that religion is simply an absolutely intricate and simply awe inspiring technique of control.
But for those of us who do not believe in a god... we have men... Presidents, Prime Ministers, Queens etc. to control them.....
Just the tip of the iceberg from me.... but you are all more than welcome to question me... by all means
I would just like to offer if I may, just a shaving of this matter as it crosses my thoughts
First of all Id like to say that I am not ignorant enough to believe that there is not a higher power simply because I could never know enough to even have the audacity of saying yes or no.
But I conclude...
In the times before the '10 Commandments' and the bible was a time that is rarely written about called the 'Dark Ages'.....
This was a time when man lived without rule.... rape, murder, theft and many other terrible things existed and violence was the supreme authority from which all other derive....
It was a world of chaos for lack of a better word....
When the 10 Commandments were put upon the world, they were questioned... as who had the right to give such orders....
But due to mans still primitive mind... the only thing feared was the unknown....
So a faceless entity, that knew all, saw all, controlled all was created to hold authoritative for all that could not be explained....
Lightning? God.
Pretty scary stuff... and makes sense why god is from the heavens.... but it scared the shit out of men.... and there lack of understanding led them to believe in such an entity, and control of the masses was successful.
The world now had order.
Fast forward a few thousand years to now.... and this still exists.
People do not have answers to thinks they do not understand, our minds (science) has come along way, just like we realized that lightning is not god... but a scientific creation of nature....
But religion has manifested its way through many cultures creating many different interpretations and beliefs surrounding a higher power.... yet the control method remains the same.....
The reason religions fight, is not because of the beliefs, but because of those who use the belief for their power like a weapon....
I believe that religion is simply an absolutely intricate and simply awe inspiring technique of control.
But for those of us who do not believe in a god... we have men... Presidents, Prime Ministers, Queens etc. to control them.....
Just the tip of the iceberg from me.... but you are all more than welcome to question me... by all means