Layoffs coming...

Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Carthoris said:
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/11/16/labor_unions_kill_twinkie_and_18000_jobs

Unions have even killed the twinkie:)
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unions didnt kill the twinkie, the sales of those repellant "snack cakes" have been falling for years, theres too many better options than flavourless greasy sponge cake with shortening and sugar injected inside.

their quality has been falling steadily, their sales have been in decline for decades, and they had a ludicrously overpaid management team who couldnt read the writing on the wall.

if you sell to walmart you have to keep dropping your invoice price every year, or wal,mart finds somebody else to provide their cheap crap.

joining walmart is a suicide pact for any supplier. your costs will never go down, but the price walmart pays per unit must always decrease, so you have to cut quality, reduce unit size, or go out of business. either way you lose customers or profits or usually, both. only a fool would sign up with an organization that thinks retail business is all about parasitic infestation of your suppliers.

their management team put them out of business.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
unions didnt kill the twinkie, the sales of those repellant "snack cakes" have been falling for years, theres too many better options than flavourless greasy sponge cake with shortening and sugar injected inside.

their quality has been falling steadily, their sales have been in decline for decades, and they had a ludicrously overpaid management team who couldnt read the writing on the wall.

if you sell to walmart you have to keep dropping your invoice price every year, or wal,mart finds somebody else to provide their cheap crap.

joining walmart is a suicide pact for any supplier. your costs will never go down, but the price walmart pays per unit must always decrease, so you have to cut quality, reduce unit size, or go out of business. either way you lose customers or profits or usually, both. only a fool would sign up with an organization that thinks retail business is all about parasitic infestation of your suppliers.

their management team put them out of business.
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Wal-Mart did not kill Hostess. They died from a mixture of no one eating their products and high labor cost. Companies go bankrupt dealing with Wal-Mart because they put all their eggs in one basket. There are many companies that supply Wal-Mart and never go bankrupt. I am going to tell you right now that I know more about Wal-Mart buying practices than everyone on this forum combined because I have actually worked with one of the regional buyers and dealt with snack cakes in particular. You will believe whatever you want to believe, though, so it doesn't matter.

Hostess has a vendor relationship with all of the businesses it deals with. It isn't like you just order it and they drop it off or ship it to your businesses district warehouse in the case of Wal-Mart. They pay route drivers obscene amounts of money to deliver product and put it on the shelves. (30-40 dollars an hour) They have about 2-4 foot section in any given store. Most of the pay involves driving around in a truck pulling a trailer. Just paying the delivery guy adds an insane amount to the price of every box of twinkies. Their entire business model is faulty, and they can't get rid of the drivers and streamline the process because they belong to a union. They are running a 1960's business model in the 2010's, and it doesn't work at the scale they are doing it. Pepsi and Coke do alright with this models because of their mass amount of sales.

Twinkies were pretty much the same price at Wal-Mart as they were everywhere else. Wal-Mart had nothing to do with hostess going bankrupt, and your suggestions that it was are really silly. You usually seem fairly cognizant, so I will just chalk this stupid rant up to bias against Wal-Mart. It is what it is.
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Carthoris said:
business model in the 2010's, and it doesn't work at the scale they are doing it. Pepsi and Coke do alright with this models because of their mass amount of sales.

Twinkies were pretty much the same price at Wal-Mart as they were everywhere else. Wal-Mart had nothing to do with hostess going bankrupt, and your suggestions that it was are really silly. You usually seem fairly cognizant, so I will just chalk this stupid rant up to bias against Wal-Mart. It is what it is.
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Same price different cost.
And no hostess delivery drivers go to walmart stores to stock them
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Carthoris said:
Wal-Mart did not kill Hostess. They died from a mixture of no one eating their products and high labor cost. Companies go bankrupt dealing with Wal-Mart because they put all their eggs in one basket. There are many companies that supply Wal-Mart and never go bankrupt. I am going to tell you right now that I know more about Wal-Mart buying practices than everyone on this forum combined because I have actually worked with one of the regional buyers and dealt with snack cakes in particular. You will believe whatever you want to believe, though, so it doesn't matter.

Hostess has a vendor relationship with all of the businesses it deals with. It isn't like you just order it and they drop it off or ship it to your businesses district warehouse in the case of Wal-Mart. They pay route drivers obscene amounts of money to deliver product and put it on the shelves. (30-40 dollars an hour) They have about 2-4 foot section in any given store. Most of the pay involves driving around in a truck pulling a trailer. Just paying the delivery guy adds an insane amount to the price of every box of twinkies. Their entire business model is faulty, and they can't get rid of the drivers and streamline the process because they belong to a union. They are running a 1960's business model in the 2010's, and it doesn't work at the scale they are doing it. Pepsi and Coke do alright with this models because of their mass amount of sales.

Twinkies were pretty much the same price at Wal-Mart as they were everywhere else. Wal-Mart had nothing to do with hostess going bankrupt, and your suggestions that it was are really silly. You usually seem fairly cognizant, so I will just chalk this stupid rant up to bias against Wal-Mart. It is what it is.
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funny... when i worked for wal mart i stocked the hostess products, not a bread delivery dude. many shops do pay bread dudes to deliver and stock the products, but walmart in california isnt one, nor is target.

also, are you arguing that wal mart's vendor/supplier contracts do not require wholesale cost reductions every year? cuz they do. on everything from lawnmowers to gym socks.
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
funny... when i worked for wal mart i stocked the hostess products, not a bread delivery dude. many shops do pay bread dudes to deliver and stock the products, but walmart in california isnt one, nor is target.

also, are you arguing that wal mart's vendor/supplier contracts do not require wholesale cost reductions every year? cuz they do. on everything from lawnmowers to gym socks.
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Catepillar is even worse. They activly try to get machine shops to go over the 25% threshold of jobs
i worked for a shop where 85% of the jobs run were catepillar. After a year catepillar demanded cost reductions. Catepillar also demands you supply them with the info on how you produce the parts and your process. And they control who your suppliers for material are
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
OK. JLG, the heavy equipment manufacturer, wanted a former employer to move to Atlanta, lease a building from them, and only manufacture their parts. They told them that if they wanted to own the company, they should make an offer, but they weren't just going to hand over control of the company Walmart does what you describe all the time. That's a tool to force lower and lower prices from their suppliers.
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
OK. JLG, the heavy equipment manufacturer, wanted a former employer to move to Atlanta, lease a building from them, and only manufacture their parts. They told them that if they wanted to own the company, they should make an offer, but they weren't just going to hand over control of the company Walmart does what you describe all the time. That's a tool to force lower and lower prices from their suppliers.
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Catepillar actively tries to flood a vendor with orders that pay well. In an effort for the supplier to forego his other clients or discourage them from looking for new customers
Catepillar then notes when they pass the 25% threshold and when they do that is when they start the high pressure price reduction talks with the threat that if you do not comply they will pull all their work leaving you out of work and waitiing for them to pay on the orders they already have received
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Same price different cost.
And no hostess delivery drivers go to walmart stores to stock them
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Little Debbie, Arnold, Hostess, Natures own and the like are all vendor items that get stocked by their perspective companies and not by Wal-Mart. Hostess especially shows up in a hostess box truck, unloads the merchandise to the stores, and then fills the shelves. Basically, the entire bread aisle, the grind your own coffee in stores that carry it, all the sodas that aren't generic, beer, and a few other things are entirely stocked by their delivery drivers and/or their company reps. Some of them have 3rd party regional distributors and the like, but they all go through the mother corporation for business dealings with Wal-Mart. Their products never actually enter the Wal-Mart inventory on most of it, and they are pay from scan. Wal-Mart never actually owns the product as opposed to the items that get shipped to regional warehouses for Wal-Mart and then routed to other divisional warehouses.

Agreed that Wal-Mart gets a cost break. It isn't as much as you would think, though. I can find out the exact numbers on hostess items at Wal-Mart, if you like.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Yeah, JLG did the same thing. My employer had to take them to court to get payment. JLG miscalculated the resources of my former employer. Paid substantial punitive damages. Missing that a huge holding company had bought out the "small" business they thought they were dealing with was a major blunder on their part. The holding company has 80 employees, a prez, a vice prez, a secretary, a treasurer, and 76 lawyers.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
funny... when i worked for wal mart i stocked the hostess products, not a bread delivery dude. many shops do pay bread dudes to deliver and stock the products, but walmart in california isnt one, nor is target.

also, are you arguing that wal mart's vendor/supplier contracts do not require wholesale cost reductions every year? cuz they do. on everything from lawnmowers to gym socks.
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Please show a contract that stipulates a cost reduction. Wal-Mart may play hardball from year to year on cost for items, but it is the manufacturers fault if they cannot say no. Wal-Mart should get the best cost on every item as they sell more than anyone else. If a product is in demand then Wal-Mart will carry it at whatever cost it can get it at. Take the 'as seen on tv' section. The markups on those items aren't as high as you would imagine. Hell, Wal-Mart pays more for cheap USB/Ethernet/Chargers than you or I would pay for the same item on ebay. Retail has always been the way it is, it has moved from distributor control to retailer control of the industry though.

I can only speak for the south east business unit of the company. I have never worked in the division buying office. However, I can tell you that I have never been to any store that Wal-Mart stocked the bread aisle unless it was blown up and they were forced to have something on the shelf. (Holidays and the like) All of those items are pay from scan and the companies who bring them in get payed per item sold, so they come in and take good care of it. It has been this way for more than a decade at least, I would have to ask someone who is a lifer if it was like that in the 80s/90s. I suspect it was, however. It is possible that things are ran a little different in California, but I doubt it. If you go into Wal-Mart at 5 am, you will see the vendors coming in to work their stuff as that is what time the company opens the back doors unless there is a noise ordinance.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
OK. JLG, the heavy equipment manufacturer, wanted a former employer to move to Atlanta, lease a building from them, and only manufacture their parts. They told them that if they wanted to own the company, they should make an offer, but they weren't just going to hand over control of the company Walmart does what you describe all the time. That's a tool to force lower and lower prices from their suppliers.
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Greed of the CEOs of the manufacturers is what destroys their company, not Wal-Mart.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Balzac89 said:
Oh no Walmart is gonna cutback its fulltime positions...... wait what full time positions?
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They have some, but I couldn't tell you a number or percentage. I would expect management would be full time. I know a couple of people who left what I know were full time positions with insurance to work at Walmart. Well, I've seen them "working" at Walmart. mostly they were fucking off. Tho I will admit that particular store seemed worse than the other local Walmarts.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Balzac89 said:
Oh no Walmart is gonna cutback its fulltime positions...... wait what full time positions?
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That is a pretty ignorant comment. You realize that a majority of the positions at Wal-Mart's are full time? People generally get hired part time, but you only stay that way for a short time if you aren't lazy. Depending on the store 60-70% of the store is full time. Many of the part timers actually want to work part time as they are retired and students. Stop repeating things made up by unions, it just makes you look ignorant.
 
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Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
They have some, but I couldn't tell you a number or percentage. I would expect management would be full time. I know a couple of people who left what I know were full time positions with insurance to work at Walmart. Well, I've seen them "working" at Walmart. mostly they were fucking off. Tho I will admit that particular store seemed worse than the other local Walmarts.
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There are few stores below 60% full time. There is about 20 salaried managers in a store and 50 hourly supervisors. Most night shift workers are full time, and about half of the regular hourly people in the day shift are full time.
 
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