MMPR Grow op: Small Scale

woodsmaneh! said:

Yes in Ontario you need a Dr to sign but that is a whole different issue of Education, and getting the Nursing act in Ontario changed. What most people don't understand is the cost to produce med mj is very low if done my way (don't want to start a war here on how to grow), I can go lower than 3$ a gram and still make money, so I can sell you 84 grams for $252 and still make good money. 84 grams is what the average script is a month. Now you can buy cheaper on the street but whats in it? As we get better at growing our cost will go down also. Remember Most LP want to be's grow now so were not talking Plant Products weed here, this is kick ass shit. One of my plants test out at 24.8% THC and 1.3% CBD and I have i more in the high end and one in the middle and one 1:1 CBD at 8.2%, serious stuff.

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Agreed, Ive been banging the low price drum for awhile and primarily get either skepticism or hostility. I plan to make it work at half that cost, though may have to charge in the $2-$3 range for the 12-18 week, narrow leaf varieties.

Good luck!

Its going to be an interesting ride, anyone else excited?

woodsmaneh! said:

What most people don't understand is the cost to produce med mj is very low if done my way (don't want to start a war here on how to grow)

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Oh no....we get it...that's the problem. After years of growing their own, and paying minimal amounts, people are now being asked to pay top dollar for their meds. At this point I don't think it matters what the cost is...people without an income will not be lining up to purchase something they can or have been growing for a long time. Again, this program is not intended for medical patients, it's just the front for something else to come.

WHATFG said:

Oh no....we get it...that's the problem. After years of growing their own, and paying minimal amounts, people are now being asked to pay top dollar for their meds. At this point I don't think it matters what the cost is...people without an income will not be lining up to purchase something they can or have been growing for a long time. Again, this program is not intended for medical patients, it's just the front for something else to come.

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The thing is it won't be long before Mrs. XXXX's health plan from Starbucks is where the invoice is being sent off too...

The reason this was an underground utopia before MMAR was because of ignorance on the costs it took to do it. (Doing it properly is a whole nother ball game that I'm sure some of them never figured out)

Thats why you see lb's going for $900 here in BC of high AA grade.

But as woods said.. (esp for medical patients) the testing alone that will be put into this will be second none, and most likely no where near the quality they have ever experienced.

So Yes I believe people will bitch about paying $6-$8 a gram. Until they realize how little they need to get the relief they are looking for. (this isn't your grandmothers garden grow)

Plus whats $150/month worth to any of us for pain relief? (they were most likely paying close to that before they were allowed to grow for themselves unregulated)
Only a few guilty pleasures would have to be wrangled to justify it.

Sideroadslayer said:

The thing is it won't be long before Mrs. XXXX's health plan from Starbucks is where the invoice is being sent off too...

The reason this was an underground utopia before MMAR was because of ignorance on the costs it took to do it. (Doing it properly is a whole nother ball game that I'm sure some of them never figured out)

Thats why you see lb's going for $900 here in BC of high AA grade.

But as woods said.. (esp for medical patients) the testing alone that will be put into this will be second none, and most likely no where near the quality they have ever experienced.

So Yes I believe people will bitch about paying $6-$8 a gram. Until they realize how little they need to get the relief they are looking for. (this isn't your grandmothers garden grow)

Plus whats $150/month worth to any of us for pain relief? (they were most likely paying close to that before they were allowed to grow for themselves unregulated)
Only a few guilty pleasures would have to be wrangled to justify it.

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There ain't gonna be no health care plan my friend. This drug will never be in the drug compendium and will not have a drug identification number. If the company I work for (you're assuming the medical patients are able to work) chooses to cover the cost of medicinal cannabis, then and only then will the invoice for my meds be going somewhere other than my mailbox.

With regard to the costs, when it's all rolled into monthly expenses, it doesn't quite seem the same as forking out $2700 (450gx$6) in one shot.

Isn't everyone trying to dump their stockpile in anticipation of what's about to happen - hence the $900 lb.

I have every faith in my abilities to grow and produce quality medicine for me. I don't need to have it tested because I keep my place clean and I tend to my plants like they were my children. I don't care how much testing you do. Did you grow before mmpr?
Did you test your stuff then?

PEOPLE ARE BITCHING ABOUT PAYING $6-$8/g BECAUSE THE RUG HAS BEEN PULLED OUT FROM UNDER PATIENTS. MOST CHRONICALLY OR TERMINALLY ILL PEOPLE DON'T WORK AND THEREFORE DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF DISPOSABLE INCOME.

You are basically accusing me of using more medicine than I need when you make statements like "Until they realize how little they need to get the relief they are looking for and you insult the intelligence of people here who have been growing for a long time when you say things like "this isn't your grandmothers garden grow". I think we're all well aware that what's being grown today by all kinds of people isn't the crap I used to buy in downtown Hamilton for $60/oz way back when.

$150 could mean a lot of things to a lot of people. That is not the point at all. I would give just about anything to not have to wake up every morning barely able to function because the pain in my back, legs and feet is so bad......it's becoming about more than just what the cost is...it's the fact that I had a right given to me and now that right is being taken away when I did nothing wrong!

WHATFG said:

Oh no....we get it...that's the problem. After years of growing their own, and paying minimal amounts, people are now being asked to pay top dollar for their meds. At this point I don't think it matters what the cost is...people without an income will not be lining up to purchase something they can or have been growing for a long time. Again, this program is not intended for medical patients, it's just the front for something else to come.

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Well I have no issues with people who grow their own and I will always grow my own for what ever the reason but not everyone can or wants to. Some people will want to buy and will have some money to spend and we will be there to give them choices, we pay our money and we take our chances by getting our LP. If your not part of the solution than your part of the problem.

I know better than anyone about being poor and deciding if you eat or heat, I have and do support a few people who just don`t have anyway to grow or buy, it`s fucking hard when you see how much it improves their lives and how it could help so many, that's why I`m doing this and yes if I make some money off people who can afford it, good on me.

Shit kicking LP`s and saying they are all profiteers makes no sense at all. Mad because we want to make money, tell your government to quit wasting your money and quit bitching at LP`s.

You know I can sell an oz for $3 a gram that`s $84.00 an ounce and still make money!! So we will put all the street dealers out of business as far as med people buying from them. It has even impacted the street dealing big time. Think that won`t happen, look at BC, the state next to them legalized weed and now BC is giving the fucking stuff away or sending it to Ontario and East coast. Asian`s are getting out of the business and weed is at an all time low price. Street pounds for $1,400 to maybe $1,700. hell a year ago it was $2,000 to $3,600.

Sideroadslayer said:

The thing is it won't be long before Mrs. XXXX's health plan from Starbucks is where the invoice is being sent off too...

The reason this was an underground utopia before MMAR was because of ignorance on the costs it took to do it. (Doing it properly is a whole nother ball game that I'm sure some of them never figured out)

Thats why you see lb's going for $900 here in BC of high AA grade.

But as woods said.. (esp for medical patients) the testing alone that will be put into this will be second none, and most likely no where near the quality they have ever experienced.

So Yes I believe people will bitch about paying $6-$8 a gram. Until they realize how little they need to get the relief they are looking for. (this isn't your grandmothers garden grow)

Plus whats $150/month worth to any of us for pain relief? (they were most likely paying close to that before they were allowed to grow for themselves unregulated)
Only a few guilty pleasures would have to be wrangled to justify it.

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I have to agree with most of what you say, for example we have two people in our group that hold licences. They were talking about what they were using and what we should grow, so I suggested we grow what I have and so the test was on. I gave them each 2 samples and blew them away, they could not believe the power they had. How is this possible, time and money, thats how I do it and my own breeding program. You can go back and search my threads on my adventures but I have bought and grown out over 100 different strains of marijuana in my many years of growing. I got a great seed collection of some of the hardest seeds to find and some are no longer available. The best part is having med people to test the stuff on, after all it`s for them too.

By the way there is a challenge under the charter of rights going to court about growing in your home. They will win.

Everybody needs to remain conscious at all times of the fact that the right to grow a plant that helps you medically is being taken away by a government. It is easy to forget the panic that people who have invested and vested interests in growing their own medicine are feeling with D-day approaching in less than a crop.

It would be like having the government tell you that you should destroy the new car, it just finished letting you build at your expense and surrender your drivers license too. Then to add insult to injury, ask you to pay more than you were for your transportation. UNDERSTANDABLY EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED.

I have to remind myself to add this obvious injustice in regularly, because though I am in the same boat I have chosen a different route to freedom. Often our conversation is just not inclusive of those that are and will continue to grow their own, like woodsman said, we are talking more about those that do not want to or cannot grow their own and where will they get cannabis from, LP's or the Black Market.

Marihuana will never get din number or be covered by medical insurance, once it is legal it will start slowly being dropped as a "real" medicine at all, slowly becoming like the medicinal elixers that were made of alcohol. Patients will be expected to buy it just like everybody else. Are legitimate patients really going to pay a premium for medical grade cannabis, why would they?

I assume the vast majority of PUPL's will continue to grow their own until a better option presents itself. Suddenly limiting my supply of medicine on purpose because the government tells me to, not likely, the civil disobedience will continue until the government gets it's head out of it's ass. Other options will decrease the law breaking over time, but like the moonshiners, it will never completely go away until it is just not illegal anymore.

Really, right now for people like WHATFG, what choice is there? Shut down the grow, and then suffer from lack of meds or shitty meds and/or lack of cash, or "martyr up" and grow what they need despite the law. The real question is how aggressive the police will be after April fool's day. Not very IMO.

I commend WHATFG for even exploring other options and then sharing the results, and I have found him to be pretty open minded about the MMPR, even in it's current dismal shape, I get the impression that his opinion would change with the realities of the MMPR, and that is all anybody can ask.

What $/gram would be affordable or reasonable for you WHATFG?, if the right strains were available, to make you stop growing and be legal? What would a fair price for supplying you 1 LB (450g's) a month be? Is there a fair price to all involved, after you lost your rights? You would gain even more of my respect if you dug deep and gave me a real number here. This is not a test, as a wannabe LP I am really interested. I have figured this out for myself from a PUPL and a MMPR perspective and the cost per pound of personal I grew for myself was more than I realized, (like you said, $$$ gets mixed in with the other stuff).

At the end of my purchasing, I was able to come up with approximately $500/month, but I also was not buying my entire prescription either. I will say that we were living payday to payday and there were times when I would have wait for the next payday in order to get some relief. Spending this amount also prevented me and mine from saving anything. We have 2 teenagers,heat with oil, pay top dollar for electricity, gasoline and food. I really hate sounding like a whiner but I am really quite afraid of what's coming. I will have spent almost 2 years coming off an extremely high dose of morphine and I really have no desire to start chewing pills again. So I will probably continue to grow until either wcb picks up the tab, i get arrested, miraculously become pain free or die.

So really I can't even afford that much if I want to retire with anything to live on. This has got to be the worst feeling - not wanting to break the law, but not wanting to suffer either. These really are the choices I am presented with. And I don't hate wannabe lp's -everyone's gotta make a living, I just don't see that happening on the backs of medicinal patients. I think ultimately it will be the recreational users that carry this forward.

WHATFG said:

At the end of my purchasing, I was able to come up with approximately $500/month, but I also was not buying my entire prescription either. I will say that we were living payday to payday and there were times when I would have wait for the next payday in order to get some relief. Spending this amount also prevented me and mine from saving anything. We have 2 teenagers,heat with oil, pay top dollar for electricity, gasoline and food. I really hate sounding like a whiner but I am really quite afraid of what's coming. I will have spent almost 2 years coming off an extremely high dose of morphine and I really have no desire to start chewing pills again. So I will probably continue to grow until either wcb picks up the tab, i get arrested, miraculously become pain free or die.

So really I can't even afford that much if I want to retire with anything to live on. This has got to be the worst feeling - not wanting to break the law, but not wanting to suffer either. These really are the choices I am presented with. And I don't hate wannabe lp's -everyone's gotta make a living, I just don't see that happening on the backs of medicinal patients. I think ultimately it will be the recreational users that carry this forward.

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The one thing we can do is make sure your getting the best mileage out of what you have. You may be using some of these ways but just in case;

smoking is the most wasteful and does not last long. it's not good for you.

Vaporizing I'll skip due to cost of the vap, but a very good way to use your meds, recommended.

Baking is an excellent way to get the most out of your meds, highly recommended, can triple or quadruple the effectiveness and duration of your meds, just like making you own caps, oils, green dragon and canna butter.

Just a suggestion to lower cost and consumption.

I think we are a long way from MJ being anywhere near main stream medicine for so many reasons, and as long as Dr are in denial we have a long way to go yet.

I think LEO will stay away but if they do come calling and you were a legal grower by the time your case came to court the Charter challenge should be over and if not, all cases will be put on hold till it is decided. They will not take the chance of convicting a bunch of people only to overturn them all. IMHO

The way I read it if your growing 5 or less plants your fine. But the real story is the mandatory sentencing, but that my friends only applies if your convicted of being part of organised crime. Judges are resisting mandatory sentencing too. Don't know about you but I can grow a lot of meds with 5 plants.

I can not agree more with you on your last comment, were not going to get rich on the sick people, 70% of Canadian patents are on disability pensions so have to watch every dollar.

Our company will have a compassion application process and we will allocate a % of production to that avenue. We need to clear it with health Canada because I don't think we can just give it away. I'll look into it.

Cannadan continues to shake his head and lol at another self admitted problem of the former system.....
(way to be true to your kind),Very transparent Woodsmaneh.

cannadan said:

Cannadan continues to shake his head and lol at another self admitted problem of the former system.....
(way to be true to your kind),Very transparent Woodsmaneh.

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Just wait for the stupid stuff to happen with the new system, things like Dr shopping how we going to stop that? HC has no idea and I'm not a cop so I'm not doing it. Bet they change the regs so we will have too.

I have been posting here almost 8 years and am a straight shooter, I care and my actions speak for me. I was a weed smoker long before it was medicine and now that it is called meds makes no difference to me, but I do hide behind the word Medical a bit. O I have lots of reasons to use it as Meds but not to the extent as some of my clients and it almost embarrasses me when in their presence. It's the old "I was angry I had no shoes till I saw a person with no feet". I will do what ever I can to advance the cause in a positive way and that's part of what this is about. I see myself as an ambassador for Med MJ and conduct myself in a positive manner at all times. Had a guy say MJ was a gateway drug, how dumb is that but that's what some people think. I addressed the issue and he now understands that's not true. So we all need to do our part to dispel the ignorance and educate people, one at a time.

Some people don't see the big health picture with MJ. Just think in my case I was taking a number of pills every day, mairanol, depression drugs, sleeping pills and pain pills, the cost was a few hundred a month. I have not taken any of those pills in 10 years! I just smoke weed and I'm good to go. So my health is better, my liver is good and I'm not goofy from the pills. That's a real benefit, now just think if that happens with 50% of the people. We are a very big threat to the drug companies and they know it, that's why they are using Dr to cast dispersion's on MJ. But that's another discussion.

woodsmaneh! said:

Just wait for the stupid stuff to happen with the new system, things like Dr shopping how we going to stop that? HC has no idea and I'm not a cop so I'm not doing it. Bet they change the regs so we will have too.

I have been posting here almost 8 years and am a straight shooter, I care and my actions speak for me. I was a weed smoker long before it was medicine and now that it is called meds makes no difference to me, but I do hide behind the word Medical a bit. O I have lots of reasons to use it as Meds but not to the extent as some of my clients and it almost embarrasses me when in their presence. It's the old "I was angry I had no shoes till I saw a person with no feet". I will do what ever I can to advance the cause in a positive way and that's part of what this is about. I see myself as an ambassador for Med MJ and conduct myself in a positive manner at all times. Had a guy say MJ was a gateway drug, how dumb is that but that's what some people think. I addressed the issue and he now understands that's not true. So we all need to do our part to dispel the ignorance and educate people, one at a time.

Some people don't see the big health picture with MJ. Just think in my case I was taking a number of pills every day, mairanol, depression drugs, sleeping pills and pain pills, the cost was a few hundred a month. I have not taken any of those pills in 10 years! I just smoke weed and I'm good to go. So my health is better, my liver is good and I'm not goofy from the pills. That's a real benefit, now just think if that happens with 50% of the people. We are a very big threat to the drug companies and they know it, that's why they are using Dr to cast dispersion's on MJ. But that's another discussion.

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Why would we want to stop Dr. shopping? How is that a bad thing? How many people would be enrolled in the MMAR if they couldn't find a willing Dr.? Or even one that charged a fee?

I think the only Dr.'s trying to discredit Cannabis as a medicine are the ones in big Pharma's pocket. Most Dr.'s have nothing to lose by Cannabis becoming a recognized medication. Being forced to prescribe something they know nothing about (and be responsible for that decision) its no surprise most Dr. are not onboard.

My own Dr. told me he would be more likely to prescribe Cannabis to someone with a minor illness then the seriously ill, just because he doesn't know how all the other medications they may be on might react with THC/CBD...thats usually when I say "No sweat Doc, I'll be the guinea pig. Hit me up with some scripts" Apparently that goes against his code of ethics...

So how are the other LP's going to trim all the bud? Is anyone going to use automation for climate control like Growtronix, grobot or iPonics 600? Just some of the stuff I'm wrestling with on the business side. I love my analog equipment but it just not up to the job.

woodsmaneh! said:

So how are the other LP's going to trim all the bud? Is anyone going to use automation for climate control like Growtronix, grobot or iPonics 600? Just some of the stuff I'm wrestling with on the business side. I love my analog equipment but it just not up to the job.

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I thought about trying iponics600 but I'm just not comfortable with the thought of what happens if something goes wrong with it. Than so many aspects are fucked all at once and who knows how long it could take to repair it or get a replacement up and running? It's just too many eggs in one basket for my likings.

Kootenaygirl Update.
Health Canada has deemed my facility, which is connected to my house with a long open-air catwalk, is in fact a dwelling... deep breath...
Plan #2 coming up... deep breath... the more we learned from all of you wannabe's the more we realized that our app was gonna make for a very bumpy ride, we are not surprised. Hope the five months was not a total waste. We rolled the 45K dice, now it looks like we need to roll some much larger ones, anybody see the $300K dice anywhere?.... deep breath... Were not going away that easily... give me a couple days to shift gears... very tough game to play in the dark... bit of light to work with now... much of the money we spent can easily be applied to another building....chin up...

Sorry to hear that. But if it's attached even with just a roof. It's still part of your house.
What about removing the roof between? Then it should qualify I think. Don't know if that is possible but something to think about.
Good luck and keep at it.

And it took them 5 months to tell you that. Was that the only major issue? I hate to say this but....this is not poor man's game. Poeple are gonna have to have some pretty deep pockets. Just think about who has already been authorized - money has been authorized. It's not going to get any better for me or small scale LP's. Harper is all about this shit...free market, charge up the ass, every person for themselves and if you can't keep up,well you can't play.

I don't know how you have it in you to keep going, I mean I understand the passion and such, but they have kicked you once and they are just going to keep kicking. In the mean time, all these monstrous square footages are plugging up the pipe, never mind coming down it.

Breathe!!!!!

Kootenaygirl said:

Kootenaygirl Update.
Health Canada has deemed my facility, which is connected to my house with a long open-air catwalk, is in fact a dwelling... deep breath...
Plan #2 coming up... deep breath... the more we learned from all of you wannabe's the more we realized that our app was gonna make for a very bumpy ride, we are not surprised. Hope the five months was not a total waste. We rolled the 45K dice, now it looks like we need to roll some much larger ones, anybody see the $300K dice anywhere?.... deep breath... Were not going away that easily... give me a couple days to shift gears... very tough game to play in the dark... bit of light to work with now... much of the money we spent can easily be applied to another building....chin up...

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Yikes K-girl that's terrible news. However if their is anybody who could comeback from that it's definitely you. Chin up and keep marching foward, just another hurdle. You'll probably still get your license before many people who alreay have buildings lol.

Bummer.... Kgirl.

itsme.

woodsmaneh! said:

So how are the other LP's going to trim all the bud? Is anyone going to use automation for climate control like Growtronix, grobot or iPonics 600? Just some of the stuff I'm wrestling with on the business side. I love my analog equipment but it just not up to the job.

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I was reading somewhere that someone was going to trim after hanging the entire plant to dry upside down for 4 days... (who is planning on having that size drying room available?)
Personally the waste isn't usable to us in the current legislation, and has to be destroyed. Plus clipping dry only makes the clipping harder where you will loose more trichomes to the table imo.

Problem I see is no longer being able to call on your friends to help any more... makes you think why the Big LP's are grinding their material... could be a lot of leaf left on those plants to lower their "waste" loss...